Nitto Nt01 treadlife

[OC3]

^Well, it's a balancing act between having unrestrained fun vs being more methodical & economical.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by OC3

^Well, it's a balancing act between having unrestrained fun vs being more methodical & economical.

very true. i pushed past my normal limit trying to really work the tires and get the most out of them and found im either doing it wrong or more is not always better. fun is well fun but also more dangerous and costly without much upside. clinical and smooth is the ticket im afraid.

[swartzentruber]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

clinical and smooth is the ticket im afraid.

Quite true. This style will generally be fastest, safest, and provide the longest tire life. I can't speak to "most fun" though, as I guess people have different ideas about that.

Generally when you overwork the tires past a certain point, not only will you get accelerated wear, but they'll get too hot (greasy), and grip level will decline. This can also happen if you start out with too high tire pressure.

[OC3]

Originally Posted by swartzentruber

Quite true. This style will generally be fastest, safest, and provide the longest tire life.

Yes, but those types of track videos look so boring.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by OC3

Yes, but those types of track videos look so boring.

im okay with blindingly fast and boring.

[OC3]

Seriously though, ^^all good points. And, indeed, people have different ideas, as well as different approaches. I've had my share of unorthodox paths on this journey.

As I got faster, and at the same time not fully comprehending all the dynamic, factors & techniques, not only was I literally cooking the tires and effectively losing grip quickly (& tire life), it resulted in all kinds of oh sh*t moments (pronounced slip angles) requiring lots of massive corrections. (Not all of'em were, of course, tire related; pinching the corners & steering wheel were other contributing factors).

But, even on that less-than-ideal path, you learn to be quick with corrections and also to stay on throttle while doing so. If you can drive thru those 'adventures' without losing signicant forward speed (stay on throttle) and stay within reasonable forward trajectory (quick corrections), you can still get faster, actually. The flip side is, if you're not correcting, perhaps & arguably you aren't pushing it hard enough.

I don't plan on improving lap times by adding aero, or any engine/exhaust mods. Then the only remaining factors are tires and driver mod. Must be faster thru corners, and when my new car's back in track form, I'm thinking about throwing the car more aggressively into certain corners... (idealists are probably cringing reading this).

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by OC3

Seriously though, ^^all good points. And, indeed, people have different ideas, as well as different approaches. I've had my share of unorthodox paths on this journey.

As I got faster, and at the same time not fully comprehending all the dynamic, factors & techniques, not only was I literally cooking the tires and effectively losing grip quickly (& tire life), it resulted in all kinds of oh sh*t moments (pronounced slip angles) requiring lots of massive corrections. (Not all of'em were, of course, tire related; pinching the corners & steering wheel were other contributing factors).

But, even on that less-than-ideal path, you learn to be quick with corrections and also to stay on throttle while doing so. If you can drive thru those 'adventures' without losing signicant forward speed (stay on throttle) and stay within reasonable forward trajectory (quick corrections), you can still get faster, actually. The flip side is, if you're not correcting, perhaps & arguably you aren't pushing it hard enough.

I don't plan on improving lap times by adding aero, or any engine/exhaust mods. Then the only remaining factors are tires and driver mod. Must be faster thru corners, and when my new car's back in track form, I'm thinking about throwing the car more aggressively into certain corners... (idealists are probably cringing reading this).

all good points there as well. i arrived where i am at by mostly figuring it out naturally. some things arent taught and you make it up as you go. i have had my share of oh shit moments but just minor ones are enough to get the feel of quick correction and continue.

i would consider full bolt on for your car. no need to go sc or anything but might as well do tune, pulleys, and remove primary cats. i am cringing a little but i do the same i go out with a different plan of attack for certain areas of the track and see how it feels and works. dont say throw it in thats how bigjae gets all his save videos.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by OC3

I don't plan on improving lap times by adding aero, or any engine/exhaust mods. Then the only remaining factors are tires and driver mod.

Words if a wise man

Pushing in the tire area can also become expensive though. Very grippy tires do not have good resistance to heat cycling and therefore do not have a good high grip life. Further sticky tires solicit the suspension and brakes much more, so it is difficult to keep those components stock.

I find the NT01 strike just the right balance of track wear, resistance and grip while being able to maintain most of the car in stock form. Pushing for grippier tires can through you in a dangerous modding spin

[OC3]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

all good points there as well. i arrived where i am at by mostly figuring it out naturally. some things arent taught and you make it up as you go. i have had my share of oh shit moments but just minor ones are enough to get the feel of quick correction and continue.

i would consider full bolt on for your car. no need to go sc or anything but might as well do tune, pulleys, and remove primary cats. i am cringing a little but i do the same i go out with a different plan of attack for certain areas of the track and see how it feels and works. dont say throw it in thats how bigjae gets all his save videos.

Ermmm, those things don't seem to be enticing for me. I want to leave engine/exhaust 100% stock, and I'm pretty much setup with JRZ & Brembo, so just learn more about tire management & drive better.

For example, when I did 1:58 at Buttonwillow the first time I went out on TD's (in February), I set the tire pressure at 34 psi hot, and it worked out great. Then, in April, it was considerably hotter by then, I went there with another new set of TD's, set it to 34 psi hot as before, but was disappointed that I couldn't do better than 2:00. Then, towards the end of that day, I was talking to an experienced track buddy (Z3M, full aero, etc, and this day was his first day on TD's & ran 1:58 that day) who said "oh, on hot day like this, somebody told me to set the TD pressure at 31 psi hot." And, a respected local tuner was nearby and goes "oh yeah, on days like this, and considering that TD's have stiff sidewall, you want to set it at 31 psi hot." Damn, no wonder I was stuck at 2:00 (even though I felt I drove better that day). It was a revelation as to, how you mis-set the tire pressure, and it translates into a second or two difference in lap times.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Words if a wise man

Pushing in the tire area can also become expensive though. Very grippy tires do not have good resistance to heat cycling and therefore do not have a good high grip life. Further sticky tires solicit the suspension and brakes much more, so it is difficult to keep those components stock.

I find the NT01 strike just the right balance of track wear, resistance and grip while being able to maintain most of the car in stock form. Pushing for grippier tires can through you in a dangerous modding spin

Indeed (not good high grip life, dangerous modding spin, etc); hence, my newly-found (but probably second nature to many others) focus on tire management.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by OC3

Ermmm, those things don't seem to be enticing for me. I want to leave engine/exhaust 100% stock, and I'm pretty much setup with JRZ & Brembo, so just learn more about tire management & drive better.

For example, when I did 1:58 at Buttonwillow the first time I went out on TD's (in February), I set the tire pressure at 34 psi hot, and it worked out great. Then, in April, it was considerably hotter by then, I went there with another new set of TD's, set it to 34 psi hot as before, but was disappointed that I couldn't do better than 2:00. Then, towards the end of that day, I was talking to an experienced track buddy (Z3M, full aero, etc, and this day was his first day on TD's & ran 1:58 that day) who said "oh, on hot day like this, somebody told me to set the TD pressure at 31 psi hot." And, a respected local tuner was nearby and goes "oh yeah, on days like this, and considering that TD's have stiff sidewall, you want to set it at 31 psi hot." Damn, no wonder I was stuck at 2:00 (even though I felt I drove better that day). It was a revelation as to, how you mis-set the tire pressure, and it translates into a second or two difference in lap times.

so any words of wisdom on nt01s for me. i tend to shoot for 39 psi as a hot pressure with them. im out this weekend both saturday and sunday and will be 75-80 most likely. live in nw so dont usually see super hot temps but my last sessions were upper 90s both days which about killed me.

[OC3]

^In December of last year, I had some suspension work done by a local Porsche racing shop and they recommended that I set the NT01 at 34psi hot. And, when I went ran with that setting (Jan & Feb), my lap time improved by over 3 seconds on several tracks (compared to R-S3).

So, of course, when I tried TD's in February, I just simply duplicated that setting and it worked out well. But, not so in hotter April.

In applying all this situation to NT01's to hot SoCal mid-summer track day conditions, I think I'm going to try 32 psi hot and adjust from there. But, in the relatively cooler Pacific Northwest (75-80 this weekend), try 34 psi and adjust?

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by OC3

^In December of last year, I had some suspension work done by a local Porsche racing shop and they recommended that I set the NT01 at 34psi hot. And, when I went ran with that setting (Jan & Feb), my lap time improved by over 3 seconds on several tracks (compared to R-S3).

So, of course, when I tried TD's in February, I just simply duplicated that setting and it worked out well. But, not so in hotter April.

In applying all this situation to NT01's to hot SoCal mid-summer track day conditions, I think I'm going to try 32 psi hot and adjust from there. But, in the relatively cooler Pacific Northwest (75-80 this weekend), try 34 psi and adjust?

seems so low to me. i already have wear over the sidewall the sidewall arrows.

[OC3]

I hear you. I think the idea is, the lower the tire pressure, tires squat more, and hence have more contact patch area with the tarmac (i.e. more rubber gripping the track). Of course, you don't want to lower it so much that the sidewalls roll over.

What camber setting did you have when the wear over the sidewall happened?

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by OC3

I hear you. I think the idea is, the lower the tire pressure, tires squat more, and hence have more contact patch area with the tarmac (i.e. more rubber gripping the track). Of course, you don't want to lower it so much that the sidewalls roll over.

What camber setting did you have when the wear over the sidewall happened?

i think that is wear that occured prior to camber plates buts unsure. once i had camber plates on the e90 i had -2.5 front and -1.9 rear. now with the same set of nt01s on my e46 i have -3.5 front and -2.75 rear. i will try running lower hot pressures this weekend and see how it feels. probably do it in stages. maybe shoot for 36 this weekend and see.

[OC3]

^ Doing it in stages.

Try 2 psi steps. Not sure if 1 psi difference can be felt.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

very true. i also try not to overwork the tires all session as oc3 does. try not to use too much slip angle or you really pay for it in wear.

I have the nanny/auto save on so not much sliding around for me yet.

[dapopa9]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

i would consider full bolt on for your car. no need to go sc or anything but might as well do tune, pulleys, and remove primary cats. i am cringing a little but i do the same i go out with a different plan of attack for certain areas of the track and see how it feels and works. dont say throw it in thats how bigjae gets all his save videos.

I honestly doubt that would have any effect on your track lap times for an E9X M3. May sound better but thats about it.

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

so any words of wisdom on nt01s for me. i tend to shoot for 39 psi as a hot pressure with them. im out this weekend both saturday and sunday and will be 75-80 most likely. live in nw so dont usually see super hot temps but my last sessions were upper 90s both days which about killed me.

In my E90 M3 I find 34-35 hot PSI on the NT01's is optimal for best grip and lap times.

[OC3]

Originally Posted by dapopa9

In my E90 M3 I find 34-35 hot PSI on the NT01's is optimal for best grip and lap times.

And, you were hair shy of sub-2 min at Chuckwalla with that setting in January.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

I have the nanny/auto save on so not much sliding around for me yet.

i used mdm for a while in the e90 but with the e46 it is either on or off and so intrusive i cant drive the car at all. my first day in the e46 i went out on street tires ad08s and had traction on. I absolutely hated the car and thought i had made a huge mistake building it. then traction off, boom loved it.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by dapopa9

In my E90 M3 I find 34-35 hot PSI on the NT01's is optimal for best grip and lap times.

good to know. guess i will have to change how i do out laps so i can bring the tires up to pressure a little better. i worked really hard last season on not waiting until the last lap to finally be turning proper lap times. it seemed i gradually got faster. now its one out lap thats 2-3 seconds off pace then right to it.

[1MOREMOD]

i have a 2 day weekend this week to work it out. will shoot for 35-36 first day and 33-34 next day maybe. does that mean you are going out on 25psi?

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

i used mdm for a while in the e90 but with the e46 it is either on or off and so intrusive i cant drive the car at all. my first day in the e46 i went out on street tires ad08s and had traction on. I absolutely hated the car and thought i had made a huge mistake building it. then traction off, boom loved it.

My mechanic (who races cup cars and does drifting) told me that the GT3 nannies/auto save (PASM) is actually fairly liberal and that I might allow a little slip angle before it comes on. I don't have the E92 anymore so my options with my current car are traction control (TC) & stability control (SC) on, SC off and TC on, or both off. I'm tempted to try everything off by running at 70% in the student group to get the hang on the car at a PCA event with an instructor in the car. That'll probably be the best way for me to learn the car.