Some Interesting Findings on the Dinan Stage 1 Kit

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by isugoo

Guys, the rear spring perch info you guys were waiting for.
I'll upload pictures either tonite or tomorrow.

Dinan spring perch is exact same BMW one with 0.5" extension attached.
And has attach the round spacer inside.

...
Dinan Front bump stop: E36M3 bump stop.
....

So if somebody wants to make their own "Dinan" kit, it's def. possible. All are from BMW.

I ended up with an extra pair of the 31332225377 front bump stops. These list for $19.12 each ($38.24/pair). I'll sell them to someone for $20/pair shipped ($21 PayPal).

http://www.ecstuning.com/ES50668/

Edit: SOLD

[doba_s]

i'll take them

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by doba_s

i'll take them

PM me with your email address, please.

[isugoo]

My suspension is not settle down yet. But I'll take pictures and measure the center cap to the fender line about a week or two later after settling and alignment.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by isugoo

My suspension is not settle down yet. But I'll take pictures and measure the center cap to the fender line about a week or two later after settling and alignment.

People talk about the suspension "settling", but other than the initial seating of the springs, I really haven't seen any proof that the height will change in the first few weeks. If it does, that means the springs are fatiguing, which shouldn't happen. Just my thoughts.

[rzm3]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

People talk about the suspension "settling", but other than the initial seating of the springs, I really haven't seen any proof that the height will change in the first few weeks. If it does, that means the springs are fatiguing, which shouldn't happen. Just my thoughts.

yeah, it's a myth... no one really has data to prove which is true... but it doesn't hurt to wait for a week...

[lucid]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

People talk about the suspension "settling", but other than the initial seating of the springs, I really haven't seen any proof that the height will change in the first few weeks. If it does, that means the springs are fatiguing, which shouldn't happen. Just my thoughts.

I agree. Springs do not "settle" as long as the perches they are resting on have even surfaces.. You compress them and they deflect. The force deflection curve should not change in 1 week unless they are being plastically deformed, which surely cannot/should not be the case.

Materials do experience a phenomenon called "creep", but the timeframes are usually very long. If a metal experienced creep in one week, there is no reason for it so stop experiencing it after that week. I am not a material scientist, but springs "settling" after a week doesn't make sense to me. Without an alternative explanation, I won't buy it.

By the way, BMW service procedures do not call for a "settling" period for spring replacements as far as I know.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by lucid

I agree. Springs do not "settle" as long as the perches they are resting on have even surfaces.. You compress them and they deflect. The force deflection curve should not change in 1 week unless they are being plastically deformed, which surely cannot/should not be the case.

Materials do experience a phenomenon called "creep", but the timeframes are usually very long. If a metal experienced creep in one week, there is no reason for it so stop experiencing it after that week. I am not a material scientist, but springs "settling" after a week doesn't make sense to me. Without an alternative explanation, I won't buy it.

By the way, BMW service procedures do not call for a "settling" period for spring replacements as far as I know.

I'm glad I have support for my "contrarian" opinion.

[doba_s]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

People talk about the suspension "settling", but other than the initial seating of the springs, I really haven't seen any proof that the height will change in the first few weeks. If it does, that means the springs are fatiguing, which shouldn't happen. Just my thoughts.

I am with you on this ... I just give it a week so I can see how the car behave on the road and then do the alignment ...


So, what do you guys think, why are those white pads are there ? What is the purpose of placing them in the springs pockets ?

[adc]

Originally Posted by doba_s

So, what do you guys think, why are those white pads are there ? What is the purpose of placing them in the springs pockets ?

So are there modified bump stops in the rear? Perhaps these are complementing pieces...

[isugoo]

There is no modified bump stops for the back.

Dinan Front:
Modified guide support, bumpstop, washers, spring.

Dinan Rear (for sedan):
Modified spring pocket, 1/8" plastic spacer, spring.

[doba_s]

so,, what about people who bought their kit without modified spring pocket and plastic spacer?

Is it not safe to drive like that?

Did anybody call Dinan to clarify that ?

[lucid]

I am getting increasingly perplexed by what Dinan is trying to do with this product. How is this supposed to be sound engineering? When are they going to freeze the specs for a fairly straight forward modification? What happens to the people who purchased early when the new parts weren't offered? And most importantly, where the hell is my rebate check!?

[TLud]

Originally Posted by lucid

I am getting increasingly perplexed by what Dinan is trying to do with this product. How is this supposed to be sound engineering? When are they going to freeze the specs for a fairly straight forward modification? What happens to the people who purchased early when the new parts weren't offered? And most importantly, where the hell is my rebate check!?

Two possibilities: 1 and 2.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by TLud

Two possibilities: 1 and 2.

Won't be holding my breath then!

[doba_s]

Originally Posted by lucid

I am getting increasingly perplexed by what Dinan is trying to do with this product. How is this supposed to be sound engineering? When are they going to freeze the specs for a fairly straight forward modification? What happens to the people who purchased early when the new parts weren't offered? And most importantly, where the hell is my rebate check!?

I am surprised that nobody with the earlier kits is really concerned about this ...

I feel sorry for you guys ...

[isugoo]

It seems like I'm the very first one in the forum with sedan kit.
I think someone really need to call and ask about the 1st gen sedan suspension kit.
Maybe asked them to send rear spring pockets and spacers instead of never-came rebate check. =)

[isugoo]

Originally Posted by doba_s

I am surprised that nobody with the earlier kits is really concerned about this ...

I feel sorry for you guys ...

Doba s,
Sorry, I will measure my center cap to the rear fender gap distance either today or tomorrow.

[doba_s]

Originally Posted by isugoo

Doba s,
Sorry, I will measure my center cap to the rear fender gap distance either today or tomorrow.

it's cool ! no worries ... Do you think you car is lower now ( rear ) than it was before ? I just want to understand if the "new" kit really lowers the rear part of the car or it is a myth ...

[rzm3]

Originally Posted by lucid

I am getting increasingly perplexed by what Dinan is trying to do with this product. How is this supposed to be sound engineering? When are they going to freeze the specs for a fairly straight forward modification? What happens to the people who purchased early when the new parts weren't offered?

Unless this is a safety issue, Dinan is under no obligation to provide cusmoters with the newly added components to the kit. They could just say it's an improvement as they conduct more R&D.

Think this way, should BMW retrofit the pre-LCI E90 sedans with LCI parts at no cost ? Obviously not.

GL getting your check. It is quite unacceptable to wait this long... perhaps its time to do "an Open Letter to Steve Dinan" haha

[AMPowerJ]

I have the first generation sedan kit and I am going to call them. Stay tuned.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by rldzhao

Unless this is a safety issue, Dinan is under no obligation to provide cusmoters with the newly added components to the kit. They could just say it's an improvement as they conduct more R&D.

Think this way, should BMW retrofit the pre-LCI E90 sedans with LCI parts at no cost ? Obviously not.

It's not that simple.

My point is that the mounting of the spring is a relatively straight forward modification. It's not a complex system that could take several product releases to iron out. They are not sending people to the moon. If they can't do the engineering behind how to install springs as best as they can during their first release, then I can question if they did solid engineering the first time around. I might not be legally entitled to a refund or an upgrade--I didn't make such legalistic demands in my prior post--but I am certainly entitled to that question as a consumer, which is the essence of my post.

When you make a product release decision, you might choose to cut corners and release something you know you could improve upon. That's a business decision, and doesn't in anyway mean that you are releasing a well engineered product.

As an extreme case, didn't Detroit know that they were engineering and releasing poor products for decades? They eventually did more R&D--among other things--and improved their products, but what does that change or mean for the people who bought the poorly engineered products? Zip. Should they be less dissatisfied since the products were eventually improved? Of course not.

And, your LCI example isn't applicable here. That is a general 3-series system upgrade that had a development cycle of more than just a model year. It turned out to be a model year for the M3 since M3s are not in cycle with the rest of the 3-series. How long has the Dinan spring product been around? Less than a year I think. If you start messing with the features of a newly released product, that is not a good sign. If BMW modified its LCI design within a year of its release, by all means, I'd raise questions around the quality of its engineering as well.

Finally, there is the mystery around the rear bumpstops. See quote from one of Greg's earlier posts in this thread:

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Their kit description said new front AND rear bumpstops were included (does not say exactly that now). When I contacted them after not receiving the rears, they sent me some.

A key product feature had been advertised, and then removed within weeks of the release of the product. What does that say about the development process behind all this? Are they randomly trying things to see what works? More importantly, are they doing that after the product is released? I am not saying they are or are not doing trial and error engineering as I have no way of knowing for sure, but I am raising the question because, when I consider this rear bumpstop issue with the recent rear spring pocket addition, this product seems "in flux" to me.

As folks on this forum know, I have been a supporter of Dinan products. I have no Dinan bashing agenda from a product perspective (their failure to make rebate payments is a separete issue). However, what is going on with the features of this particular product makes me question the rigor of their development process.