B7 RS4 vs. E90 M3

[Uiop]

R8 4.2 and RS4 have the same engine. As for the RS4 v M3 debate, I have chosen the RS4. This is probably a letdown to an M3 forum, but I need the AWD and there are a lot more available in my area.

I know that the RS4 doesn't have as many mods, but with so few in the US, it is unique enough on its own. I heard a Tubi Rumore and it was simply amazing. I am planning on Tubi Rumore, ECS H-pipe, and Fast Intentions down pipes. Also the GruppeM air filter and a JHM shift shifter and tune. These, a carbon steering wheel and ADV.10's and I'll call it complete. Thanks for the opinions guys.

[FormulaMMM]

Well, there's no such thing as a bad choice between the two cars, it's just that you made the wrong choice. Steer clear of M3 test drives and you'll be able to sleep at night.

Enjoy the RS4.

p.s. you need the awd, but plan to run ADV.10s?

[M3takesNYC]

Beside the torque vs power debate, needing AWD is the biggest fallacy of them all. RWD with snow tires will take virtually anything down and do a MUCH better job than AWD with all-season tires.

In Summer, a high-performance tires rated for dry and rain again will do absolutely just as well providing you keep the tires with a good tread depth which if you do not even with AWD you will be sliding

the ONLY way awd is truly needed enough to influence a car buying situation is if you live in an area with significant elevation or hills. In that case the RWD rarely will struggle a bit but even in these cases with snow tires not so much.

I lived in a really snowy area for 2 years in a RWD bimmer. Good all-season was fine 80 percent of the time. Snows I had 100 percent of the time not a problem going through any amount of snow thrown at me.

But if it makes sense to someone's head and they want to buy an inferior car for awd which won't benefit them in anyway its to each their own.

Now if someone wanted an RS4 for other reasons or they prefered the car than so bet it. But to buy one for AWd is quite silly unless your in the mountains

[toddcc1]

Originally Posted by Uiop

R8 4.2 and RS4 have the same engine. As for the RS4 v M3 debate, I have chosen the RS4. This is probably a letdown to an M3 forum, but I need the AWD and there are a lot more available in my area.

I know that the RS4 doesn't have as many mods, but with so few in the US, it is unique enough on its own. I heard a Tubi Rumore and it was simply amazing. I am planning on Tubi Rumore, ECS H-pipe, and Fast Intentions down pipes. Also the GruppeM air filter and a JHM shift shifter and tune. These, a carbon steering wheel and ADV.10's and I'll call it complete. Thanks for the opinions guys.

I stand corrected. Excellent choice. I was reading a few threads on ADV.1's, may want to do a search prior to plopping down on those. The JHM folks have done good work on the RS4. I like the M3, but the RS4 is just a different beast and you'll really, really enjoy that vehicle.

[Uiop]

Originally Posted by toddcowles

I stand corrected. Excellent choice. I was reading a few threads on ADV.1's, may want to do a search prior to plopping down on those. The JHM folks have done good work on the RS4. I like the M3, but the RS4 is just a different beast and you'll really, really enjoy that vehicle.

Thank you

[happos2]

Originally Posted by M3takesNYC

Beside the torque vs power debate, needing AWD is the biggest fallacy of them all. RWD with snow tires will take virtually anything down and do a MUCH better job than AWD with all-season tires.

In Summer, a high-performance tires rated for dry and rain again will do absolutely just as well providing you keep the tires with a good tread depth which if you do not even with AWD you will be sliding

the ONLY way awd is truly needed enough to influence a car buying situation is if you live in an area with significant elevation or hills. In that case the RWD rarely will struggle a bit but even in these cases with snow tires not so much.

I lived in a really snowy area for 2 years in a RWD bimmer. Good all-season was fine 80 percent of the time. Snows I had 100 percent of the time not a problem going through any amount of snow thrown at me.

But if it makes sense to someone's head and they want to buy an inferior car for awd which won't benefit them in anyway its to each their own.

Now if someone wanted an RS4 for other reasons or they prefered the car than so bet it. But to buy one for AWd is quite silly unless your in the mountains

I would have to disagree with a lot of this actually. As you stated, you had first hand experience in the snow and such and I don't doubt you. I have had a different experience. I owned an M3 (both E46 and E92) and a Subaru Impreza. The M had snow tires on it and the Subbie had all seasons. The subbie was much better in the snow, no doubt about it. Yes, the M can manage the snow just fine with snow tires, but AWD is truely better. Much less if you put snow tires on the AWD vehicle, then there isn't a comparison at all so to have the capability might mean something to the owner.

As for the hills, I kind of agree with you. However there are M owners on here that take their car to the ski slopes. But how often do you see an M heading to the ski slope versus an S4 or RS4? I see the Audi a lot more.

Either pick, the RS4 or the M is a good choice. I like the M because it feels better on the track so I chose that. I like the RS4 for its rarity, sound and looks but I did not like the interior and having 4 doors. It just doesn't fit my needs so I didn't buy it.

[pbonsalb]

For snow, I would take the Audi with awd any day over the M3 with rwd. No way does rwd with snows equal awd unless you run summer tires on the awd or bad all seasons.

But an M3 with snows does OK. I drive mine year round in NH and have been driving my E36M3 in NH on snows for 8 years and other rwd cars on snows up here for 20 years.

I agree that awd with non winter tires is not great. My wife's 535xi on PS2s was next to useless but I expected that and bought a set of snow wheels.

Audis are great in snow and rain, but as noted, there may be a price to pay in the dry. Still, some of the new ones are pretty competitive. One car magazine had the Audi with 4.2l V8 and 450 hp, I think it was the S5, soundly beating the M3 on the track. Other magazines have the M3 ahead. It is close. I would not be unhappy with either car.

[mdosu]

wow, given all that was said by former RS4 drivers, I have to say I dodged a big bullet when I was in the market buying my M3.

I seriously considered an RS4, and the ONLY thing that stopped me was the lack of a good valued RS4 (<$50k) that had less than 20k miles.

It appears the DRC issue is a huge maintenance headache. I would not have been a happy camper paying $800 every 50k miles. My M3 so far has had zero issues. I have to say the only attractive feature of the RS4 to me were:

1. styling
2. exhaust sound
3. interior styling (I no longer think this is superior anymore after owning the M3, M3 has better nav and better leather)
4. some cost savings and more options in buying square setup tires. (the M3's 264/40/18 is really hard to match up with a 245/40/18)
5. rarity


Obviously, I chose the M3, but over time, I believe the M3 is superior based on my following views:

1. Exterior styling is very subjective, the RS4 is not THAT MUCH better looking than the M3, if at all at this point, IMO, it might be a factor similar to a mother always thinks her children are beautiful, I think the M3 looks equally as good.

2. I seriously love the M3 interior. Although it appears to be boring, the i-drive is superior (even the CCC & can be upgradable), the leather feels great, and my car came with all the options that makes it a luxury car.

3. M3 just has overall better performance (weight, EDC, MDM, balance). No debates here, all magazine/tv tests shows the M3 is faster than the RS4.

4. fun factor, yes it doesn't sound as good as RS4, but come on, it still sounds fantastic when you ride your way up to 8400.

5. Generally, worry free maintenance. No carbon issue, known issues are idle air control valve, and if you're really unlucky, you may have issues with the throttle actuator, random misfires, or bent/stuck valves.

[rennis]

Congrats on the RS4! Seriously the best looking car Audi made save for the R8 up until just recently. That's going to sound amazing with that Tubi exhaust.

:fap:


The grip of quattro is insane...wet or dry. Do the right mods to diminish the understeer, and you've got all the fun 99% of most drivers can handle!

[cuiter23]

Originally Posted by rennis

Have you driven a B8 S4? the E90 335 does not compare to that car.

B8 S4 gives up a lot to the E90 M3 in peformance, so they are also apples and oranges there. But it's a lot more car than a 335.

They are direct competitors. The S4 may be a bit quicker in a straight line due to the slight power difference, but on the track its a no-brainer 335i. A software tune and some free flow mods on a 335i is practically an M3 (in terms of acceleration).

People always have this misconception that a 335i is just another 3 series sedan while the S4 has the "S" factor going for it. 335i vs S4, similar price point, performance, apples to apples.

[Uiop]

Originally Posted by rennis

Congrats on the RS4! Seriously the best looking car Audi made save for the R8 up until just recently. That's going to sound amazing with that Tubi exhaust.

:fap:


The grip of quattro is insane...wet or dry. Do the right mods to diminish the understeer, and you've got all the fun 99% of most drivers can handle!

Tubi is going to be the first mod. I want to finish the whole exhaust before anything else. I'll post vids, maybe even in this thread.

[voidopolis]

good thread - UIOP any update?

it's great to have folks that have owned both cars comment on actual experience. I'm currently in the middle of this same internal debate as well. I currently have a E46-M3 for my summer car and a MK6-GTI for a winter car. I want to replace both of them with 1 car - requirement being that I need 4 doors. I've driven in snow my whole life, so I'm not overly concerned with any car as long as I have a good set of tires.

I keep going back and forth between 3 cars as replacement: B7-RS4, E90-M3, and the E60-M5. I considered for a bout 3 seconds the AMGs - but quickly decided they are not for me... but none of these three would be a "bad" choice, but after my recent test drive of the RS4, I'm leaning toward the E90. So far, Ive driven the RS4 and a few E90-M3s (both manual and DCT). I need to get into a E60...

I was surprised just how small the RS4 felt for a 4 door sedan - front and rear. Front seats were smaller feeling than the e90 and the rear seats are uncomfortably small for a 4 door. with the front seat in a driving position for a 6ft guy the back seats felt almost as small as my E46 vert. The engine was great and the exhaust note from the aftermarket system was amazing (especially in "S" mode). seat of the pants power was good - very comparable to the E90. Steering felt heavier, but not as connected as the E90.

Interior wise, I'm not sure why everyone goes on an on about how much better the interior is on the RS4 vs. the M3 - unless they are comparing the E46 to the B7. The E90 vs. the B7 - I really prefer the E90- especially with the carbon trim - look amazing IMHO. The B7 interior just felt old and square. The E90 lines "flow" and look elegant.


RS4:
Pros: AWD, good sounds, nice interior, rare
Cons: tiny feeling, back seats are almost unusable, maintenance costs vs. the M3 are higher looking at the normal wear items (like brakes) & Carbon. not sure of the longevity of the RS4 engine

E90:
Pros: seems to be pretty much the most carefree car of the lot, cheapest maintenance, lots of aftermarket kit available for it. sexy as hell inside and out.
Cons: everyone has one... I see quite a few daily. Smallish for a 4 door sedan. stock exhaust is pretty quiet.

E60:
Pros: Big & roomy, styling look great, rare and AMAZING V10 soundtrack
cons: higher maintenance costs vs the E90, SMG - very hard to find a manual. Not sure of the longevity of the E60 engine.

so, any additional comments on this debate?

[kardboard]

On an S85 M5/M6 I was wondering what else to look for when buying a used car....

I've head of bearing rod issues and issues with the SMG pump. Anything else to look for?

[brava09]

I am very happy with my RS5 as a replacement for my E92 M3.

Much faster off the line, due to better traction, much better cabin (really feels like a 80k $ car), exterior looks much better IMO, and rarer on the streets.

As for handling, at my skill level, does not feel any bit behind the M3, on the contrary I would say.

[swifty]

Op, I'm running 18 inch wheels with 265 Blizzaks all around and just went through one of the coldest Decembers in Toronto. In deep snow, the M3 with blizzaks were awesome.

As few guys have stated, snow tires like blizzaks on an M3 will get you around perfectly fine. However, I do agree full time AWD like subies or Audis will be better but considering the RS4 over the M3 due to winter conditions alone wouldn't be sensible. Yet if you are still going to go with the audi, check out a newer B8 S4 as another member suggested.