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03-03-2008, 10:12 PM | #23 |
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Looks like the final drive ratio on the M-DCT is 18% taller than 6MT. That's the difference between 2500rpm 6MT and 2050rpm DCT at the same speed. I'm not an engineer just a business major, so if my calculations are wrong speak up.
As a reference, I have a friend who put the 6MT into an E36. The first 5 gears are all the same ratio as the stock 5 speed. The 6th gear dropped the RPM at highway speeds about 300-350 rpm and increased the mileage about 4mpg during interstate cruising. I have a feeling a 450rpm drop at highway speeds due to the DCT, will yield substantial mpg savings. Not to Prius levels, however it might do as well or better than my 5 speed E36. I don't know how the EU calculates it's mileage seen in swamp's post above, but I have a feeling we'll see larger than a 5% increase on the US Highway rating over the 6MT. Time will tell. ---------------------- Edit based on Enigma's comment below Looks like the difference in final gear ratio is only 6% or a drop of 2200rpm to about 2070 at the same speed. Not as substantial as I thought. As I said, I was a business major. There should be some saving in the 7th DCT gear being a 1.0 ratio. Less parasitic loss in the transmission.
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03-03-2008, 10:23 PM | #24 |
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Um, you also have to look at the transmission gear ratios which are also different. The total change is far less than your quote implies.
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03-03-2008, 10:29 PM | #25 |
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True. T Bone did extensive analysis of this in his computer simulations. I tried to find it but there are too many posts.
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03-04-2008, 12:47 PM | #26 | |
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Gear ratio x final drive 6MT, 6th:.... 0.94 x 3.846 = 3.615 M=DCT, 7th:. 1.0 x 3.154 = 3.154 Difference is 13%. That is pretty significant. I have no idea if CarTest (for performance simulation) accurately predicts mpg but the option is there. It predicts: city/highway 6MT:....13.5/19.8 M-DCT:.12.9/21.5 These do not correlate well with the EU specs, not even the right prediction of which is better for urban driving and a much more dramatic benefit in the highway figure. As a point of reference CarTest predicts this as well: city/highway E46 M3:..........15.1/24.9 E60 M5 (SMG):.10.1/15.8 Seems pretty decent but have not really checked those closely (T-Bone/Greg how do these look comared to real life and or vehicle specs?). Further I have all my simulations with MT at .25 s shifts. This is a really fast drag/track shift and absolutely would not be the norm for regular driving. I should do a sensitivity study on that.... |
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03-04-2008, 02:13 PM | #27 |
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A 1.7mpg increase over the 6MT on the highway sounds good to me.
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03-04-2008, 02:28 PM | #28 |
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Nice analysis Skierman and Swamp. Lets home these figures are true and potentially lower the GGT!
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03-04-2008, 02:55 PM | #29 | |
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03-04-2008, 03:28 PM | #30 |
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I put this together using the European data. The Euro cycles aren't the same as EPA cycles, but these numbers show the relative change by having 7 speeds vs. 6 speeds.
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03-06-2008, 10:31 AM | #31 |
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I spoke to someone in the know at BMW and the DCT will NOT avoid the GG Tax. Sorry......
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03-06-2008, 10:42 AM | #32 |
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How about a reduction in GG tax over the 6MT since it's supposed to get better mileage?
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03-06-2008, 10:45 AM | #33 |
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Yes, may go down to $1,000.
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03-06-2008, 10:48 AM | #34 |
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The $300 saving will pay for a few tanks of gas. That's ok with me.
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03-06-2008, 12:08 PM | #35 | |
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03-06-2008, 12:13 PM | #36 |
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It seems your numbers are purely based on analytical/numerical units conversion, right? This is an OK approximation but the way the cars are tested is critical. As we know heavy foot or city = poor mpg and cruise at low speeds on the highway = great. The EU and US test procedures are quite different and neither reflects real world driving all that well. Lastly the numbers do not really reflect the difference in the number of gears. The effects visible in the numbers are from the different gear ratios and essentially no deceleration from wind and rolling loads during clutching with the MT.
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03-06-2008, 04:22 PM | #37 | |
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thanks for the info.... CAFE has new MPG figures which are lower? This would make it easier for the tax collectors..... |
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03-29-2008, 07:42 PM | #38 |
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any final word on GG tax for M-DCT cars? Is it $0, $1000, or $1300?
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03-29-2008, 10:57 PM | #39 |
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We'll know in about 2 weeks when the first guys start taking delivery in the states.
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