Formula 1 Gran Premio Santander D'italia 2011

[E90SLAM]

^ +1

Despite what commentators and people scream and yell for his once "double move". As if they want to crucify him. I think its superb defensive driving from Schumi. He knows when to fight and only fight the battle that himself and his car is capable of.

When later his car was significantly slower than Hamilton, he didn't put up too much unnecessary fight like an amatuar and ends up crashing into each other.

It was enjoying to watch the 7 time world champ drive like one. Even tho I was a bit gutted knowing Hamilton has no chance to overtake when his car kept bouncing off the rev-limiter.

That was quality battle!!!

[raisemyrent]

I still believe no one else could do it for that long on a track like Monza to a guy like Crashilton (who last year said that overtaking Schumacher was no challenge). I've seen Alonso been caught by surprise more often than not this year (for such an experienced and complete driver). And don't get me wrong, I used to cheer for the guy. I just think Schumacher gave Hamilton an 11 lap lesson in racing. He showed that he is a driver back from "the old days". But anyways, everyone's opinion is just as valid as mine.

I think the essence of what I was trying to say is that Schumacher is super old and retired for 3 years and just because he hasn't won the world championship again some people say "he hasn't got it anymore". I think that his performance (granted, iffy in terms of legality as was the case sometimes during his first career and basically they way they used to roll up until maybe the late 90s) simply proves that he can still very much drive an F1 car at the ABSOLUTE limit (i.e. Hamilton is a great overtaker and the McLaren was overall faster, and basically almost every start of every grand prix he's in) when it matters, without making a mistake. It makes me (a guy who got so sick of him winning in 2002) want to BOW before him in both respect and awe (which I actually did a few times in Montréal when he drove by haha).

back to F1, so upset in a sense that the championship is SO over... this season has been phenomenal save for that utter dominance. But, oh well...

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by raisemyrent

I still believe no one else could do it for that long on a track like Monza to a guy like Crashilton

(i.e. Hamilton is a great overtaker and the McLaren was overall faster, and basically almost every start of every grand prix he's in)

You say on a track like monza, but a track like monza is all high speed, and lewis car was hugely down on high speed performance.

[UltimateBMW]

I think coupling the 2 things together was part of it. No doubt Schum had good car placement, but being on Monza and having the advantages on the long straight meant that they came up to a corner before a second move could even have been made. Schum was also on the ball on his breaking, which was also a big factor at Monza.

The reason Schum got away with that one was because it was at the next corner already. Even though it was pretty deliberate.

[E90SLAM]

Derek Daly, who served as a race steward at the Italian GP, admits they erred when they didn't hand Michael Schumacher a penalty for blocking Lewis Hamilton.

The seven-time World Champion escaped with just a word of caution from Mercedes GP team principal Ross Brawn during Sunday's race after he appeared to make two moves to defend his place against the McLaren driver.

"The FIA were watching it (the incident with Hamilton) and asking us to be careful," Brawn said after the race.

The McLaren camp have expressed their frustration at the lack of punishment for what they described as "pretty harsh" defending from Schumacher and now Daly has admitted the German should have received a drive-through penalty.

'Schumi should have had penalty for blocking in Monza - we blew it - Agh-,' he wrote on Twitter.

Daly has also revealed that he missed the Schumacher-Hamilton incident as he was busy dealing with a different case at the time.

"On lap 20, race director Charlie Whiting asked the stewards to look at an incident between [Felipe] Massa and [Jarno] Trulli at the second chicane," he is quoted as saying by Crash.net. "While looking at the slo-mo video of this incident, I missed the Schumacher-Hamilton incident that happened at that moment.

"When I looked at it again at home, I believe that Schumacher should have been given a drive-through penalty. He was warned repeatedly, and this style of driving is not what you want the future generation of drivers to perfect. We as stewards probably let Charlie down with this one."

http://planetf1.com/news/3213/717601...een-Penalised-

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

^ +1

Despite what commentators and people scream and yell for his once "double move". As if they want to crucify him. I think its superb defensive driving from Schumi. He knows when to fight and only fight the battle that himself and his car is capable of.

When later his car was significantly slower than Hamilton, he didn't put up too much unnecessary fight like an amatuar and ends up crashing into each other.

It was enjoying to watch the 7 time world champ drive like one. Even tho I was a bit gutted knowing Hamilton has no chance to overtake when his car kept bouncing off the rev-limiter.

That was quality battle!!!

I agree 1 million %. I want to see more of this kind of driving, as it makes it more fun for all of us. I hate it when they 'over-penalize' drivers, like they have occasionally have done to Lewis in the past. If there's no contact between the drivers, and there is no deliberate BLATANT blocking (I still feel that Schumi was moving back onto the racing line, not blocking..), I feel that all is fair.

I think people are being too critical of Hamilton, too. I thought Hamilton was pushing like crazy despite having a car that was significantly slower on the straight. It was awesome to see a talented driver like him paired up against the experience of Schumacher, and at LONG LAST see the duel we've been waiting to get played out on track. Kudos to Hamilton for not getting angry after the race, too; I was happy to see him show respect to the other driver and instead let his driving do the talking.

And I think Jenson got a bit lucky - I have a feeling that Hamilton and Schumacher had already used up all their KERS that lap, allowing Jenson to sail past both Hamilton and Schumacher. Lucky, but also intelligent driving of his to save his KERS- very characteristic of Jenson.

It certainly appears to me that Michael is finding his 'mojo' again. If Mercedes can spit out a decent car next year, I think we could see a lot more of these battles in the future.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by O-cha

T

The speed commentators were also quite vocal about his blocking being illegal as well. Which it was. There was no reason to push him on the grass, and the double blocking was worse then what hamilton was penalized for at Malaysia.

I disagree. I think that Schumacher was less blatant about it, as one could argue that he made his one move, and then had to move back across to take the racing line.

As for cutting off Hamilton in Curva Grande...I think that was harsh but fair. He was ahead, and he's allowed to choose his line, as long as Hamilton is not directly next to him. Hamilton was being a bit naive, thinking that Schumacher would not try to cut him off.

Both of the incidents were borderline, I realize that - I'm not saying that Schumacher was being a saint on Sunday. But I think they were borderline enough that they deserved a reprimand AT MOST.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

http://planetf1.com/news/3213/717601...een-Penalised-

Something seems a bit off about this article. Don't they have replays during the race? NONE of the stewards noticed Hamilton's radio conversation or thought to review the incident?

IMO, either this guy was not in the majority of the stewards' decisions, or something fishy was going on. I don't think they're so incompetent as to completely miss a major incident like that, especially as it occurred so early in the grand prix.

They are also allowed to make post-race penalties, if they think it is warranted.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by pman10

Something seems a bit off about this article. Don't they have replays during the race? NONE of the stewards noticed Hamilton's radio conversation or thought to review the incident?

IMO, either this guy was not in the majority of the stewards' decisions, or something fishy was going on. I don't think they're so incompetent as to completely miss a major incident like that, especially as it occurred so early in the grand prix.

They are also allowed to make post-race penalties, if they think it is warranted.

I agree. If there's a need to post drive-thru or post race penalties, they will. Hell, they didn't even bother to call Schumi and Hamilton to the stewards office after the race (am I correct?).

I believe Hamilton and McLaren complained to race control, the they warned Ross Brawn and Schumi about too much "swerving". Then he diligently followed the warning and didn't do it again. But then, even after that, Hamilton still unable to pass due to max out rev. Its very smart, cool, and excellent driving from schumi; and he knows his limits, he didn't put up too much fight after his tires were gone or when he really lose a position to Hamilton.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by pman10

I disagree. I think that Schumacher was less blatant about it, as one could argue that he made his one move, and then had to move back across to take the racing line.

I didn't say it was more blatant, I said it was worse because he actually blocked hamilton completely where as hamilton only moved twice, but there was still room on either side of him for alonso to go around.

For the record, I DONT think schumacher should be penalized for what he did IF hamilton had not been penalized for what he did. But he was, if you penalize one you HAVE to penalize all, otherwise it's bullshit.

Also, moving back to the racing line is not an excuse. If that were on excuse you could block the inside of every corner and then just move back and block the outside (where the racing line usually is) every time. As they kept saying, you have to leave room when moving back. When you choose to block the inside, that is now YOUR racing line and the other guy gets the outside.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by O-cha

I didn't say it was more blatant, I said it was worse because he actually blocked hamilton completely where as hamilton only moved twice, but there was still room on either side of him for alonso to go around.

For the record, I DONT think schumacher should be penalized for what he did IF hamilton had not been penalized for what he did. But he was, if you penalize one you HAVE to penalize all, otherwise it's bullshit.

Also, moving back to the racing line is not an excuse. If that were on excuse you could block the inside of every corner and then just move back and block the outside (where the racing line usually is) every time. As they kept saying, you have to leave room when moving back. When you choose to block the inside, that is now YOUR racing line and the other guy gets the outside.

I still think you can argue either way, but you raise a very good point. Consistency is very important. For example, Hamilton was not penalized for cutting back across Kobayashi in Spa, much like Schumacher did to Hamilton. We need more consistent application of the rules, although I'm not sure how feasible that is if the stewards change every single grand prix.

I would personally be very happy if they exercised the rules in the future as they had done in Italy, as I'm a proponent of more action and less penalties.

[E90SLAM]

Sadly, consistency is what FIA is lacking of throughout decades.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

Sadly, consistency is what FIA is lacking of throughout decades.

They really should just have videos of each thing they penalize for for reference. Want to penalize someone when it's not terribly obvious or not, take a quick 2 minute scroll through the other penalties for the same thing, look worse then any of them? Penalize, period.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by O-cha

They really should just have videos of each thing they penalize for for reference. Want to penalize someone when it's not terribly obvious or not, take a quick 2 minute scroll through the other penalties for the same thing, look worse then any of them? Penalize, period.

I'm sure they have a database of the penalties, but they don't even bother to take reference of cases that they penalize drivers or "take no further action". Like a proper court cases that past verdict matters in a trial.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by pman10

For example, Hamilton was not penalized for cutting back across Kobayashi in Spa, much like Schumacher did to Hamilton.

What? Hamilton wasn't even defending in that incident. He was just moving to the racing line, and Kobayasha had crept up in there.

There are loads of inconsistencies in all of these events. What happened to the rule about forcing another driver off the track? (Both in Vettel and Hamilton's case in Monza) What happened to the 1 move rule including the correction for the racing line?

Also, the poeple claiming that the BBC is Brit biased or pro-Hamilton is rediculous as well. They more often than naught call a spade a spade. They certainly have called Hamilton out plenty of times.

Originally Posted by pman10

Something seems a bit off about this article. Don't they have replays during the race? NONE of the stewards noticed Hamilton's radio conversation or thought to review the incident?

IMO, either this guy was not in the majority of the stewards' decisions, or something fishy was going on. I don't think they're so incompetent as to completely miss a major incident like that, especially as it occurred so early in the grand prix.

They are also allowed to make post-race penalties, if they think it is warranted.

Basically, F1 is political.

[raisemyrent]

it's hard to say. I think I miss the old days when they would penalise indecent things (say schumacher 97) and let them race otherwise. Penalise chicane cutting etc. now it's a nanny state and these young drivers, well, you just saw how they stack up against the old school! ha, couldn't resist.
hard to say.. they should be consistent, agreed. but what if they are too harsh once? does that now set a super harsh precedent? food for thought.

hopefully singapore is not a bore of a race.. I'm not the biggest fan...

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by raisemyrent

it's hard to say. I think I miss the old days when they would penalise indecent things (say schumacher 97) and let them race otherwise. Penalise chicane cutting etc. now it's a nanny state and these young drivers, well, you just saw how they stack up against the old school! ha, couldn't resist.
hard to say.. they should be consistent, agreed. but what if they are too harsh once? does that now set a super harsh precedent? food for thought.

hopefully singapore is not a bore of a race.. I'm not the biggest fan...

I think it is funny you choose to take a jab at Hamilton. If anything, his competitive nature and desire to win at any cost is more inline with the old school nature of F1 than any other driver.

It is a competition, if you aren't butting heads then you aren't trying hard enough. Which may explain why he is always in the middle of these scraps.

Hell some of the drivers on the grid are no more than glorified and overpayed test drivers.

[raisemyrent]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

I think it is funny you choose to take a jab at Hamilton. If anything, his competitive nature and desire to win at any cost is more inline with the old school nature of F1 than any other driver.

It is a competition, if you aren't butting heads then you aren't trying hard enough. Which may explain why he is always in the middle of these scraps.

Hell some of the drivers on the grid are no more than glorified and overpayed test drivers.

mm I don't think I mentioned Hamilton at all and I agree with you in fact.

edit: nm, caught it. well, I'm still sour from when he said it was easy to pass my idol. he crashes a lot, but they all used to back then. point taken.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

I think it is funny you choose to take a jab at Hamilton. If anything, his competitive nature and desire to win at any cost is more inline with the old school nature of F1 than any other driver.

It is a competition, if you aren't butting heads then you aren't trying hard enough. Which may explain why he is always in the middle of these scraps.

Hell some of the drivers on the grid are no more than glorified and overpayed test drivers.

Agreed. I hate his attitude off track, but on track he reminds me of the racers of old - Schumacher, Hakkinen, Senna, Mansell, Prost, etc. I bet he wishes he was born in a different decade

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by pman10

Agreed. I hate his attitude off track, but on track he reminds me of the racers of old - Schumacher, Hakkinen, Senna, Mansell, Prost, etc. I bet he wishes he was born in a different decade

I'm not his biggest fan, and I actually hate him when he "hit" Hill out in Adelaide back in 1994. But I really wish he never gets old.

With a decent car, he can remind the new drivers how hunger and ruthless F1 should be. And gives a good gauge where they should be in their career against the 7 time world champ.