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02-11-2009, 02:57 PM | #68 | |
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They give you the cats they do because having a set of cats upstream allows them to heat quicker. That way the car has cleaner emissions when started. Often, what people with a pre-cat delete do, is before an emissions test is run their car hard on the highway getting the cats hot. That way, they pass the test, the machine doesn't know how many cats the car has or where. The car is also built to exceed current standards, not squeak by them. You obviously didn't get it. Try reading and comprehending this time. A tune CAN get better mpg. It depends on the application and use. Tunes usually lean the car out a bit. You don't have much experience, and that is ok, I don't mind tutoring you. Did you forget your original so called point that the car would somehow be compromised or require exotic materials to improve BMW's design? To simplify, you were wrong, I haven't had to sacrifice daily driveability. If anything, the case can be made the car is easier to drive everyday as there is more torque. People who tune their cars for more performance usually drive around at 40 mph in 6th gear. That makes a lot of sense, great point. Last edited by Sticky; 02-11-2009 at 10:44 PM.. |
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02-11-2009, 03:01 PM | #69 |
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To have 470 crank, the CSL would have had to be just under the 400 wheel range, or a gain of around ~46 wheel on a stock car. Completely feasible and attainable, from the factory or otherwise.
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02-11-2009, 03:29 PM | #70 | |
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It isn't scientific or measurable exactly on a graph to present, but it confirms the real world application for myself. The drag strip does as well. |
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02-11-2009, 03:31 PM | #71 |
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Dont not forget that the ALMS motors are a restricted engine to equalize the variation of cars & engines.The 4.0l race engine would pull a lot more power unrestricted.
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02-11-2009, 03:39 PM | #72 |
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Not to mention they were making that power in 2001, and Porsche accused them of making far more
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02-11-2009, 04:06 PM | #73 | |
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When they did not homologate the V8, Porsche protested, they were forced to go to even larger air restrictors, before the throttle bodies I believe. This is when they decided it wasn't worth it anymore and hung up their M3 GTR racing shoes. |
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02-11-2009, 04:09 PM | #74 | |
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http://www.imsaracing.net/2008/alms/...201st%20ED.pdf Page 243 is what you need for GT2 |
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02-11-2009, 04:48 PM | #75 | |
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You clearly don't understand the basics of running a business. Airbags/safety stuff sells to a certain crowd. Weightsaving such as an aluminum hood, and forged wheels are what make fanboys such as yourself cream their pants... While they aim to produce a car you want to buy, they do it solely because they feel they can make a certain margin on you, not because it makes them feel good in their heart that you have dreams at night about your next trip to the drag strip.
There are few cars on the road today that are not a pure cost/price business case, such as the Bugatti Veyron, which is an engineering testbed/marketing tour de force. Trust me, your M3 is not in that category, it is a mass production car where every component is carefully considered in a cost/benefit (what BMW can sell the car for) analysis. Quote:
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02-11-2009, 05:07 PM | #76 | |
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The M is an enthusiast car, they do cater to fanboys to an extent. They make FAR more money just churning out base 3 series. They would have made far more money simply plugging in a higher boost version of the N54. They didn't, that should tell you something. Cars like the M3 are a matter of pride and prestige for the respective producers. They are not bottom line cars, although they do turn a profit. The numbers are nothing like the base 3 or 5 series. I think you obviously do not understand the basics of performance cars, namely M cars. Regardless, you are still wrong about what you wrote regarding the compromises of tuning an M car and that it requires expensive exotic materials to do so. Let me know when you are ready to admit it. The Veyron was a car they could build as VW does not have a formula 1 program. They simply had the money to throw away to make a statement. They didn't need to make money on it, that is why the Golf exists. |
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02-11-2009, 05:07 PM | #77 |
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Exactly. From what PGs car has made over stock with his mods, he's probably sitting right around 470 crank presently.
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02-11-2009, 11:36 PM | #78 | |
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02-11-2009, 11:57 PM | #79 | |
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But hey, I applaud your OT effort. |
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02-12-2009, 12:35 AM | #80 | |
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02-12-2009, 12:41 AM | #81 | |
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It is enough of a difference that you will feel it. It doesn't really matter to me as I don't make them, but what matters to me is that people don't throw stuff out there that isn't true. I could technically get a VBOX and do runs with or without scoops, but it isn't worth the time or investment for myself. It would only be to prove "skeptics" wrong and investing more money than the mod costs itself is absolutely pointless. |
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02-12-2009, 08:38 AM | #82 | |
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sorry for the thread jack |
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02-12-2009, 04:22 PM | #83 |
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02-12-2009, 05:48 PM | #84 |
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Good point. That is why on intake mods in particular it is the vendors responsibility to do this. JMO. As well I don't trust my butt dyno very much. We are way too easily fooled by noise and vibration.
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02-20-2009, 10:24 PM | #85 |
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Can you email me pics of the installation? Also, what type of dyno and were the scoops installed while on the dyno? Since the scoops are top mounted, the angle of the fan is very important. On our dyno, the cars sit tilting downward so the fans have to be placed lower pointing upward.
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02-22-2009, 05:28 PM | #87 | |
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Sorry that the results weren't what the vendor advertised. Be good, TomK
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"Arcadian, I've fought countless times, yet I've never met an adversary who could offer me what we Spartans call "A Beautiful Death." I can only hope, with all the world's warriors gathered against us, there might be one down there who's up to the task."Μολὼν λαβέ!! |
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02-22-2009, 05:40 PM | #88 |
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You can't expect accurate results with the hood down. Even a 90 mph fan will not equate to the forced air cooling that happens on the road over 100 mph. (Taking the engine to the redline is equivalent to something over 155 mph on the road). The hotter air under the hood will cause the car to back off its advance and power will not be up to potential. Scoops are very hard devices to dyno accurately. Readings will tend to be pessimistic compared to actual results on the road.
Dave
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