BMW Credit Key is the New Hotness

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by lib

Oh, it's definitely becoming increasingly widespread - I still am not a fan.

It's essentially solving a problem that no one had, there is no real need to send your credit info over the air. How is it any more convinent to hold up a card against a pad than it is to swipe a card through a slot? Either way you still need to get the card out.

Yes, it's encrypted. Yes, the systems are generally ok. But no system is perfectly secure. If one thing has been proven time and time again, any real world system is vulnerable - even the ones that should be perfect, simply because people make mistakes with the implementation. Sending the info over RF removes a number of the physical barriers which at least made it a bit more dificult. You can find countless examples by simply looking up some of the instances of cloning smart cards and stealing credit card info over the air.

There's no doubt about it that they're not 100% secure, but neither is the magnetic strip, and it's much easier to decrypt. Besides, the credit card companies are on the hook for unwanted charges, not the end user. They're the ones who are really assuming the risk.

The magnetic strips are wear items, and the card has to be replaced from time to time, especially now with increased use of debit cards. The RFID is also capable of holding more information (and yes that could be a double edged sword in some cases), and will eventually make life easier.

Now, sure you can find some nightmare examples on the internet of ID theft, but for every one like that there are thousands where the credit card companies have taken the loss.

I'd like to see them follow up with some sort of biometric ID (fingerprint for example) to make sure it's actually the owner using it, and I'd say that's not too far off.

There was a lot of this same opposition to keyless entry on cars when it first came out, and then again with systems like Comfort Access. They can't afford to have this stuff hit the mass market and then not be secure enough or the public will reject it completely. I'm just not that worried about it personally.

[x97Melbourne]

its funny how someone actually thought he did have a amex-black. some people can't take a joke.

[lib]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

There's no doubt about it that they're not 100% secure, but neither is the magnetic strip, and it's much easier to decrypt. Besides, the credit card companies are on the hook for unwanted charges, not the end user. They're the ones who are really assuming the risk.

The magnetic strips are wear items, and the card has to be replaced from time to time, especially now with increased use of debit cards. The RFID is also capable of holding more information (and yes that could be a double edged sword in some cases), and will eventually make life easier.

Now, sure you can find some nightmare examples on the internet of ID theft, but for every one like that there are thousands where the credit card companies have taken the loss.

I'd like to see them follow up with some sort of biometric ID (fingerprint for example) to make sure it's actually the owner using it, and I'd say that's not too far off.

There was a lot of this same opposition to keyless entry on cars when it first came out, and then again with systems like Comfort Access. They can't afford to have this stuff hit the mass market and then not be secure enough or the public will reject it completely. I'm just not that worried about it personally.

Like RF for the key, the magnetic strip is simply a medium through which the information is stored and transmitted.

With the advances in magnetic media over the past 15-20 years it would be fairly simple to update the strip to hold much more information while also being able to withstand a lot more wear and tear. You could even throw in a stronger encoding while you're at it. Sure, you would need to replace the current card readers but by going to RF you need to do that anyway. As a bonus a mag strip update would be cheaper for everyone.

The car example isn't quite on the same level either. Mechanical car locks are brain-dead simple and there's no advantage for a thief to break the RF system. Even if it was advantageous to break the RF system you still have the problem of trying to deal with a stolen car - it's quite a bit easier to deal with small CC withdrawals using a number you were able to pick up by just walking past someone.

In theory a simple RF system should be just as secure as a mag strip but the history of similar systems has shown reality to be quite a bit different.

Either way, I'm just sharing my opinion and for the most part blowing smoke. I completely agree there won't be a massive increase in CC theft by going to RF and the instances that do occur will usually be left for the CC companies to deal with. I'm just a bit of a nut when it comes to using what I think is the "right" technology for a given problem and will always complain when someone decides it's a bright idea to broadcast private information over the air.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by x97Melbourne

its funny how someone actually thought he did have a amex-black. some people can't take a joke.

I'm not sure I understand why it would be so shocking for him to have one. I know 3 people that have them. :iono:

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by lib

Either way, I'm just sharing my opinion and for the most part blowing smoke. I completely agree there won't be a massive increase in CC theft by going to RF and the instances that do occur will usually be left for the CC companies to deal with. I'm just a bit of a nut when it comes to using what I think is the "right" technology for a given problem and will always complain when someone decides it's a bright idea to broadcast private information over the air.

Same here. I certainly don't think it's a perfect system, and the possibility for abuse is absolutely there. :thumbup:

[Heinzftw]

It sucks not being able to contribute to funny as hell thread. Only have a VISA here... So in 10 years when I am making 6 figures the black AMEX card comes in the mail right? :biggrin:

[adrean8j]

^^^NO....LOL...i still have a little AMEX...I dont even have the cool Greek head thingey...LOL

[clived]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I'm not sure I understand why it would be so shocking for him to have one. I know 3 people that have them. :iono:

I agree. I'm still confused as to why anyone would think that someone on 1addicts couldn't have one. I'm sure someone does... :wink:

[MadMan77]

Originally Posted by clived

Now, I appreciate that in this case you were right, but why would you doubt that someone on 1addicts has an Amex Centurion?

The titanium cards haven't made it to the UK yet I'm sorry to say

I just doubted that particular instance. The spending stipulations for that card would dictate someone of a higher stature (No offense GMT II).

According to the Wiki, you have to have at least $250k in spending per year + $5,000 application fee + $2,500 yearly fee.

[clived]

There are a lot of unsubstantiated rumours about the exact requirements, and they do vary from country to country. In the UK, the annual fee is only £600 (well, it was last year). I also think they look for patterns within a series of months - so spending $250/4 over a 3 month period was likely to get you an invite a few years back. I think they've tightened back up again now though.

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by Heinzftw

It sucks not being able to contribute to funny as hell thread. Only have a VISA here... So in 10 years when I am making 6 figures the black AMEX card comes in the mail right? :biggrin:

If you really want an AMEX now, just apply for the green card. They give those out to just about anybody who can pay the $50.00 annual fee and isn't actually in receivership.

[Heinzftw]

I have a VISA with a limit to buy a dam car. All I remember is: "How much money do you make a year?" "How much do your parents?" "You approved for XXXXX amount VISA! Enjoy" I now hate credit cards! (Not in debt though!)

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by MadMan77

I just doubted that particular instance. The spending stipulations for that card would dictate someone of a higher stature (No offense GMT II).

According to the Wiki, you have to have at least $250k in spending per year + $5,000 application fee + $2,500 yearly fee.

The people I know that have them use them for business purchases. It's really not that hard to ring up $250k/year doing that. It was a small company (less than 250 people) and I've personally seen three of the upper management members use them. They'll open doors in airports that I didn't even know were there.