Q: BEST EDC Setting for VIR this weekend?

8INTO3=M · 09-15-2009, 07:08 AM

I am running with the First Settlers PCA this wekend at VIR and am wondering which EDC setting will produce the best results (fastest laptimes) -- including the Grand East (YES!) on Monday.

Last time at VIR Full I could get down to 2.19 laptimes in the middle EDC setting, but I would certianly like to see that number drop lower.

I do plan to use MDM, as I think having the invisible hand of god is a good idea.

Intuitively, it would seem like the stiffest setting is the right call -- but I remember hearing otherwise.

Any idea which setting will produce the best results?

Thanks!

foosh · 09-15-2009, 07:20 AM

[There seems to be a lot of confusion about what MDM is, and maybe you know this, but it was unclear from your post. It is simply a circuit that allows you to store the preferred throttle mapping (power button), shock damping (EDC) and stability/traction control (DSC) settings all with the press of one button. What MDM does changes depending upon how you program it in iDrive. MDM "on" can be any variation of the settings for the Power, EDC, and DSC systems.]

As for the EDC setting, I can see where the middle setting would be optimum for VIR based upon what I know, but I've never had my M3 (it's an E93) on that, or any, track. It's entirely likely that the middle setting is the best compromise between soft and hard, so that you can get the best out of the suspension without unsettling it with too hard a setting. It also depends upon your driving style and/or skill level.

[EDIT: that first paragraph above is dead wrong. I read and typed in haste this morning, and my groggy brain was thinking "M button" on the steering wheel, NOT MDM. Big Windy below is absolutely correct].

Big Windy · 09-15-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foosh

There seems to be a lot of confusion about what MDM is, and maybe you know this, but it was unclear from your post. It is simply a circuit that allows you to store the preferred throttle mapping (power button), shock damping (EDC) and stability/traction control (DSC) settings all with the press of one button. What MDM does changes depending upon how you program it in iDrive. MDM "on" can be any variation of the settings for the Power, EDC, and DSC systems.

As for the EDC setting, I can see where the middle setting would be optimum for VIR based upon what I know, but I've never had my M3 (it's an E93) on that, or any, track. It's entirely likely that the middle setting is the best compromise between soft and hard, so that you can get the best out of the suspension without unsettling it with too hard a setting. It also depends upon your driving style and/or skill level.

Uh, you seem to be confused about what MDM is. MDM is M Dynamic Mode...totally separate from the M Button. The M Button (what you described) is a macro which stores preferences for throttle response, EDC, DSC, and servotronic. For cars with technology package, they are also outfitted with MDM- a specialized traction control system that is essentially a less restricted version of DSC, allowing the driver to push the limits of the car without immediate and overwhelming inverention. If you have MDM, you can set it as your stability control system in the preference pane for your M button. Read your manual.

At the OP, I've never tracked at VIR, so I don't have much advice to offer there. I've heard its rather bumpy though. I know others on the forum have a lot of experience there...hopefully they can chime in.

von_zoom · 09-15-2009, 09:14 AM

I run VIR probably twice a month, but not in my E92. My track car has no Dynamic Stability systems, thus I run with none. I have tracked my wife's 550i several times, which is a heavy car, and I have always disable the DSC. I personally do not like the feel of the car attempting to take over control. Not knowing your skill level, it is hard to give you a recommendation, but I would suggest you try all settings/or combination/ and seek out what seems to work best for you. The North course will be twisty compared to the Grand East, but unless you are really careless, I would think you should be able to drive with out your system(s) active, but proceed with caution to find you most confortable zone. If it is wet, then the above might not apply to you.

BTW, I have not found VIR to be rough or bumpy at all.

Have a good time at VIR. First Settlers is a good PCA chapter. I ran with them earlier this year.

vz

foosh · 09-15-2009, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Windy

Uh, you seem to be confused about what MDM is. MDM is M Dynamic Mode...totally separate from the M Button. The M Button (what you described) is a macro which stores preferences for throttle response, EDC, DSC, and servotronic. For cars with technology package, they are also outfitted with MDM- a specialized traction control system that is essentially a less restricted version of DSC, allowing the driver to push the limits of the car without immediate and overwhelming inverention. If you have MDM, you can set it as your stability control system in the preference pane for your M button. Read your manual.

At the OP, I've never tracked at VIR, so I don't have much advice to offer there. I've heard its rather bumpy though. I know others on the forum have a lot of experience there...hopefully they can chime in.

Yes, you are right, and I was dead wrong. I was thinking of the "M-button" on the steering column and have acknowledged my error in my original post. I do understand what MDM is, and can only blame my state of grogginess this morning.

SCCAForums.com · 09-15-2009, 10:51 PM

I think you should try a few laps in each setting. You may be surprised to find the softest setting is fastest... or the firmest... you'll never know till you try.

Good luck, and let us know!
Dave

MTROIS · 09-16-2009, 07:05 AM

I never drove VIR but I recall reading that the 'Normal' EDC mode (the one that adjusts to the road conditions) can end up being stiffer than the 'Sport' one (which technically locks the car in a stiff position).

Based on the vids I just saw....watch Turn #10!

drivendriver · 09-16-2009, 04:02 PM

When trying to pick an EDC setting, I think that you also have to consider the type of tires you have, tire pressures, and the weather.

I drove at VIR a couple of weeks ago with the stock PS2's. As mentioned by others, when the PS2's get hot they become very "greasy". When I was there it was very hot, and I had to reduce cold pressures quite a bit (relative to the recommended pressures, and from morning to late afternoon). I had a few episodes of really severe understeer in turns 1-2 and 4 (I mean the kind of understeer that you experience on a skidpad).

In my experience, in these conditions, Normal mode puts less stress on the tires and gives you more grip. It pushes back the point where the tires overheat and loose grip.

But in cool weather, Sport may work better. Sport also has psychological advantages: for example, it makes the car feel a bit more stable in the esses. Although, if you do 2:19 on the full course, that's probably not a factor.

BarryC · 09-16-2009, 04:07 PM

I tried all three and preferred the stiffest setting. Car still moved around more than I liked especially at the kink and coming out of the uphill esses.

In the end, I decided that EDC wasn't for me hence the moton purchase. If there is any way you can swing it - you'll enjoy the car much more with the Motons on the track.

Hope you have a great weekend!

BC

drivendriver · 09-16-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTROIS

Based on the vids I just saw....watch Turn #10!

Turn 10 was my favorite. Early-apexing it is pure joy.

Turn 3 is trickier than it looks.

I scared myself a couple of times in the esses, but only because I really wanted to see how fast I could go through them

.

SCCAForums.com · 09-16-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryC

I tried all three and preferred the stiffest setting. Car still moved around more than I liked especially at the kink and coming out of the uphill esses.

In the end, I decided that EDC wasn't for me hence the moton purchase. If there is any way you can swing it - you'll enjoy the car much more with the Motons on the track.

Hope you have a great weekend!

BC

There is no better shock than a Moton in my opinion, and experience as well!

Great shocks!
Dave

BarryC · 09-16-2009, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCCAForums.com

There is no better shock than a Moton in my opinion, and experience as well!

Great shocks!
Dave

reminds me of the first time i put a bbk on my first e46 m3 and went to the track in the way i could clearly tell/see the benefit of the mod. it was fun catching people in the braking zones!

the moton kit has definitely been the best $ i've spent on this car so far.... for example - when set to the initial recommended settings the car pushed a bit mid-turn and was a bit skittish. softened the rears one click (both compression & rebound) and the push was gone and the car settled down. even my instructor was impressed by the change....

M3V8Driver · 09-16-2009, 09:54 PM

Why are you even worried about lap times? Are they going to have a time trial?

I think von_zoom meant the North course will NOT be as twisty as the Grand East course, seeing as how the latter includes all but about 100 feet of hte former

Incidentally, EDC full stiff provides for faster laps, regardless of how smooth VIR is. In fact, it's not stiff enough. The car could really use higher spring rates and larger diameter sway bars too, ifyou really want to go for lap times. But I digress, even in totally stock form, in the right hands, an E92 is capable of besting 75% of whatever everyone else brings

skierman64 · 09-16-2009, 10:12 PM

The factory drivers say that EDC normal will produce the best lap times because the computer adjusts the shocks to the conditions. However I always use sport because I like the firmer feel on the track in all conditions. In normal the computer will adjust the shocks from 0-100% stiffness as needed. In sport it holds the shocks at some stiff value like 85% (but not full stiff). Regardless, I like the consistance of sport. I would only run in soft mode in the rain on the track.

SCCAForums.com · 09-17-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryC

reminds me of the first time i put a bbk on my first e46 m3 and went to the track in the way i could clearly tell/see the benefit of the mod. it was fun catching people in the braking zones!

the moton kit has definitely been the best $ i've spent on this car so far.... for example - when set to the initial recommended settings the car pushed a bit mid-turn and was a bit skittish. softened the rears one click (both compression & rebound) and the push was gone and the car settled down. even my instructor was impressed by the change....

Barry, exactly... what are so nice about Moton's... is honestly... 1 Click... is a BIG ADJUSTMENT!! Whereas... when we ran Penske's... you had to do 4 or more to 'think' it may have made a difference or not!

Peace,
Dave

dcstep · 09-19-2009, 07:09 PM

If you use the curbs, then the middle setting will give you the best control, because it stays dynamic. I agree that VIR is NOT bumpy, so the fixed "Sport" setting can do as good a job, particularly if you stay off the curbs through the esses and don't drop a wheel off anywhere else.

Dave

man02195 · 09-20-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8INTO3=M

I am running with the First Settlers PCA this wekend at VIR and am wondering which EDC setting will produce the best results (fastest laptimes) -- including the Grand East (YES!) on Monday.

Last time at VIR Full I could get down to 2.19 laptimes in the middle EDC setting, but I would certianly like to see that number drop lower.

I do plan to use MDM, as I think having the invisible hand of god is a good idea.

Intuitively, it would seem like the stiffest setting is the right call -- but I remember hearing otherwise.

Any idea which setting will produce the best results?

Thanks!

I kept MDM on, too expensive of a ride to chance a mistake.
I ran in sport for a session, and didn't like the feel, too stiff.
I flipped to comfort, to flip to the other extreme and it was much better.
When I got home I zoomed thru my performancebox data and I had a couple of 2:16s and the rest were 2:18s. I'm heading back up there for carolina's pca in November, and will experiment with normal setting. Let me know what you find out.

8INTO3=M · 09-23-2009, 06:45 AM

First Settlers PCA VIR Event was fantastic --as always. With a weather forecast calling for a good chance of rain both days (which never came) I played it safe and used the PS2s instead of the (quickly balding) RA1s. I figured I would give up some dry grip and play it safe in case the rain really came. In restrospect this was a bad idea.

The car did drive well, and I played around with both Normal and Sport modes. Sport did feel better as the car had less roll and seemed more predicatble - at least with the PS2s.

One thing that suprised me was the difficulty I had getting the computer to leave me alone in the Fish Hook turn (very tight, off camber, uphill) on the South Course. Even in MDM mode it was interfereing WAY too much and taking away power for what seemed like an eternity. Still, in the interest of preserving both car & self I kept it on.

On the Grand Course (no fish hook turn here!) things were better, and I was clearly able to keep a healthier pace -- running down some very fast cars.

Overall a great time on the track --as always. For a 3700 lb car it does drive exceptionally well. If you could remove 500 lbs it would be extraordinary.

dcstep · 09-23-2009, 07:59 AM

Thanks for the report.

Dave

von_zoom · 09-23-2009, 08:48 AM

Thanks for the report, and happy to hear you had an enjoyable time. The South Course is a lot of fun, and a lot of work. I can well understand why MDM attempted to drive at the hook. The car is loaded left for quite a while, and you need the power exiting for the up hill esses - aggravating I would suppose.

What pressure did you run with the PS2s?
vz

8INTO3=M · 09-24-2009, 07:53 AM

PS2s seemed to be happy with 32/33 cold and 38/39 hot. Grip seemed to come quickly and last the full 30 minutes.

I think with the RA1s on the MDM computer interference would have been far less, as the car would have been more planted.

I guess the benefit of driving the street tires was learning the car a bit more.

09-15-2009, 07:08 AM	#1
8INTO3=M Private 5 Rep 87 Posts Drives: M3 Coupe -- Interlagos Blue Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: MMMaryland iTrader: (1)	Q: BEST EDC Setting for VIR this weekend? I am running with the First Settlers PCA this wekend at VIR and am wondering which EDC setting will produce the best results (fastest laptimes) -- including the Grand East (YES!) on Monday. Last time at VIR Full I could get down to 2.19 laptimes in the middle EDC setting, but I would certianly like to see that number drop lower. I do plan to use MDM, as I think having the invisible hand of god is a good idea. Intuitively, it would seem like the stiffest setting is the right call -- but I remember hearing otherwise. Any idea which setting will produce the best results? Thanks! Attached Images
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09-15-2009, 07:20 AM	#2
foosh Major 27 Rep 1,314 Posts Drives: 2008 M3 E93 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Annapolis, MD iTrader: (0)	[There seems to be a lot of confusion about what MDM is, and maybe you know this, but it was unclear from your post. It is simply a circuit that allows you to store the preferred throttle mapping (power button), shock damping (EDC) and stability/traction control (DSC) settings all with the press of one button. What MDM does changes depending upon how you program it in iDrive. MDM "on" can be any variation of the settings for the Power, EDC, and DSC systems.] As for the EDC setting, I can see where the middle setting would be optimum for VIR based upon what I know, but I've never had my M3 (it's an E93) on that, or any, track. It's entirely likely that the middle setting is the best compromise between soft and hard, so that you can get the best out of the suspension without unsettling it with too hard a setting. It also depends upon your driving style and/or skill level. [EDIT: that first paragraph above is dead wrong. I read and typed in haste this morning, and my groggy brain was thinking "M button" on the steering wheel, NOT MDM. Big Windy below is absolutely correct]. __________________ Last edited by foosh; 09-15-2009 at 09:31 AM..
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09-15-2009, 09:14 AM	#4
von_zoom Captain 30 Rep 915 Posts Drives: 2010 Z06 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: North Carolina iTrader: (0)	I run VIR probably twice a month, but not in my E92. My track car has no Dynamic Stability systems, thus I run with none. I have tracked my wife's 550i several times, which is a heavy car, and I have always disable the DSC. I personally do not like the feel of the car attempting to take over control. Not knowing your skill level, it is hard to give you a recommendation, but I would suggest you try all settings/or combination/ and seek out what seems to work best for you. The North course will be twisty compared to the Grand East, but unless you are really careless, I would think you should be able to drive with out your system(s) active, but proceed with caution to find you most confortable zone. If it is wet, then the above might not apply to you. BTW, I have not found VIR to be rough or bumpy at all. Have a good time at VIR. First Settlers is a good PCA chapter. I ran with them earlier this year. vz __________________ Previous Track Toy
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09-15-2009, 10:51 PM	#6
SCCAForums.com Captain 39 Rep 726 Posts Drives: Race Cars Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Chandler, AZ iTrader: (2)	I think you should try a few laps in each setting. You may be surprised to find the softest setting is fastest... or the firmest... you'll never know till you try. Good luck, and let us know! Dave __________________ 2010 ZR1 3ZR Wht/Blk 10.7 @ 132 2011 C63 AMG P31 Car Blk/Blk 11.8 @ 117 2010 Nissan GT-R 10.8 @ 129 (Sold) 2008 Lexus IS-F (Sold) 12.5 @ 113 / 2008 Shelby GT500 (Sold) 11.3 @ 126 2008 e90 M3 6MT 12.8 @ 111 (Sold) / 2006 e60 M5 12.4 @ 114 (Sold)
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09-16-2009, 07:05 AM	#7
MTROIS Major 188 Rep 1,153 Posts Drives: on the wrong side of the Ocean Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: New Jersey, USA iTrader: (0)	I never drove VIR but I recall reading that the 'Normal' EDC mode (the one that adjusts to the road conditions) can end up being stiffer than the 'Sport' one (which technically locks the car in a stiff position). Based on the vids I just saw....watch Turn #10! __________________ 2019 M2C MT (ED + PCD) \| 2008 M3 Coupé MT \| 1995 M3 LTW MT \| BMW CCA HPDE Instructor
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09-16-2009, 04:02 PM	#8
drivendriver Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 269 Posts Drives: 2010 E83 X3 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Alexandria, VA iTrader: (0)	When trying to pick an EDC setting, I think that you also have to consider the type of tires you have, tire pressures, and the weather. I drove at VIR a couple of weeks ago with the stock PS2's. As mentioned by others, when the PS2's get hot they become very "greasy". When I was there it was very hot, and I had to reduce cold pressures quite a bit (relative to the recommended pressures, and from morning to late afternoon). I had a few episodes of really severe understeer in turns 1-2 and 4 (I mean the kind of understeer that you experience on a skidpad). In my experience, in these conditions, Normal mode puts less stress on the tires and gives you more grip. It pushes back the point where the tires overheat and loose grip. But in cool weather, Sport may work better. Sport also has psychological advantages: for example, it makes the car feel a bit more stable in the esses. Although, if you do 2:19 on the full course, that's probably not a factor.
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09-16-2009, 04:07 PM	#9
BarryC Major 121 Rep 1,198 Posts Drives: '15 M3 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Kernersville NC iTrader: (12)	I tried all three and preferred the stiffest setting. Car still moved around more than I liked especially at the kink and coming out of the uphill esses. In the end, I decided that EDC wasn't for me hence the moton purchase. If there is any way you can swing it - you'll enjoy the car much more with the Motons on the track. Hope you have a great weekend! BC __________________ '15 M3, '16 911 Turbo S Cab
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09-16-2009, 09:54 PM	#13
M3V8Driver Captain 73 Rep 724 Posts Drives: E92 M3 - DCT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA iTrader: (0)	Why are you even worried about lap times? Are they going to have a time trial? I think von_zoom meant the North course will NOT be as twisty as the Grand East course, seeing as how the latter includes all but about 100 feet of hte former Incidentally, EDC full stiff provides for faster laps, regardless of how smooth VIR is. In fact, it's not stiff enough. The car could really use higher spring rates and larger diameter sway bars too, ifyou really want to go for lap times. But I digress, even in totally stock form, in the right hands, an E92 is capable of besting 75% of whatever everyone else brings __________________ Mmmm... M&Ms, Dale
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09-16-2009, 10:12 PM	#14
skierman64 Brigadier General 127 Rep 3,071 Posts Drives: E92M3-E46M3-E46Wagon-E89Z4-E36 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Greater St Louis Metro area iTrader: (1) Garage List 1994 325is Race Car [0.00] 2011 BMW Z4 [0.00] 1998 M3 Coupe [0.00] 2008 M3 Coupe [0.00]	The factory drivers say that EDC normal will produce the best lap times because the computer adjusts the shocks to the conditions. However I always use sport because I like the firmer feel on the track in all conditions. In normal the computer will adjust the shocks from 0-100% stiffness as needed. In sport it holds the shocks at some stiff value like 85% (but not full stiff). Regardless, I like the consistance of sport. I would only run in soft mode in the rain on the track. __________________ Invest Wisely...The best mod for your money?? BMWCCA high performance driver's school. The mod that lasts a lifetime and improves the performance of any car you drive[/LEFT]
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09-19-2009, 07:09 PM	#16
dcstep Major General 1291 Rep 7,389 Posts Drives: '09 Cpe Silverstone FR 6MT Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 M3 [8.40]	If you use the curbs, then the middle setting will give you the best control, because it stays dynamic. I agree that VIR is NOT bumpy, so the fixed "Sport" setting can do as good a job, particularly if you stay off the curbs through the esses and don't drop a wheel off anywhere else. Dave __________________ Flickr Photos Ucm, Inc.
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09-23-2009, 06:45 AM	#18
8INTO3=M Private 5 Rep 87 Posts Drives: M3 Coupe -- Interlagos Blue Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: MMMaryland iTrader: (1)	Back from VIR First Settlers PCA VIR Event was fantastic --as always. With a weather forecast calling for a good chance of rain both days (which never came) I played it safe and used the PS2s instead of the (quickly balding) RA1s. I figured I would give up some dry grip and play it safe in case the rain really came. In restrospect this was a bad idea. The car did drive well, and I played around with both Normal and Sport modes. Sport did feel better as the car had less roll and seemed more predicatble - at least with the PS2s. One thing that suprised me was the difficulty I had getting the computer to leave me alone in the Fish Hook turn (very tight, off camber, uphill) on the South Course. Even in MDM mode it was interfereing WAY too much and taking away power for what seemed like an eternity. Still, in the interest of preserving both car & self I kept it on. On the Grand Course (no fish hook turn here!) things were better, and I was clearly able to keep a healthier pace -- running down some very fast cars. Overall a great time on the track --as always. For a 3700 lb car it does drive exceptionally well. If you could remove 500 lbs it would be extraordinary.
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09-23-2009, 07:59 AM	#19
dcstep Major General 1291 Rep 7,389 Posts Drives: '09 Cpe Silverstone FR 6MT Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 M3 [8.40]	Thanks for the report. Dave __________________ Flickr Photos Ucm, Inc.
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09-23-2009, 08:48 AM	#20
von_zoom Captain 30 Rep 915 Posts Drives: 2010 Z06 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: North Carolina iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the report, and happy to hear you had an enjoyable time. The South Course is a lot of fun, and a lot of work. I can well understand why MDM attempted to drive at the hook. The car is loaded left for quite a while, and you need the power exiting for the up hill esses - aggravating I would suppose. What pressure did you run with the PS2s? vz __________________ Previous Track Toy
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09-24-2009, 07:53 AM	#21
8INTO3=M Private 5 Rep 87 Posts Drives: M3 Coupe -- Interlagos Blue Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: MMMaryland iTrader: (1)	PS2s seemed to be happy with 32/33 cold and 38/39 hot. Grip seemed to come quickly and last the full 30 minutes. I think with the RA1s on the MDM computer interference would have been far less, as the car would have been more planted. I guess the benefit of driving the street tires was learning the car a bit more.
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