Road and Track's new M3 article

[fugginfazt]

Someone convince me otherwise:

E92 335 fully loaded 48K

E92 M3 base 60k

To get a 335 even close in performance:
procede 1500
suspension 2500
LSD 3500
lightweight interior and body panels 5500
Etc. Etc.

Seems to me your gonna spend that 15 to 20k difference just to catch up to the M3's
street capabilities, and you will still get spanked on the track

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by fugginfazt

Someone convince me otherwise:

E92 335 fully loaded 48K

E92 M3 base 60k

To get a 335 even close in performance:
procede 1500
suspension 2500
LSD 3500
lightweight interior and body panels 5500
Etc. Etc.

Seems to me your gonna spend that 15 to 20k difference just to catch up to the M3's
street capabilities, and you will still get spanked on the track

1. PROcede is $1,300
2. Although an LSD would be very beneficial, I'm not totally convicned that it's absolutely necessary; however, I now know that a set of wider, stickier non-RFT tires is a must with a PROcede-equipped 335i (my set of 19" Michelin PS2s cost $1,262 from DiscountTireDirect.com) + balancing/mounting from a local tire shop.
3. Some suspension mods would help.

Again, I think a heavily modded 335i would surpass the performance of a stock '08 M3, but a lightly modded 335i (like w/ PROcede and a good set of non-RFT tires) will also be very close to the M3 performance wise. Most ppl in this category will not be at the track every weekend, so a slightly modded 335i that hangs with an M3 at least from 0-100mph for $15k-$20k less is a very acceptable choice.

[AndreyATC]

How about overheating on the track
Is 335 going to stand abuse?
It kinda sucks to get into limp mode in the middle of the race

[teknochild]

Originally Posted by sflgator

1. PROcede is $1,300
2. Although an LSD would be very beneficial, I'm not totally convicned that it's absolutely necessary

for fugg

1 you dont know the m3 will only be 60k base

2 if your going to compare them dont compare fully loaded to bare, compare fully loaded to fully loaded

for sf

if you want to have even a chance of beating an m3 on a track and lsd is absolute



counter a 0-60 4.5 sec? who the hell cares about that?

its almost always going to be more expensive to mod a comparable car to be faser than a more expensive one (i dont meen civic vs 335 thats not comaprable) its cheaper for BMW to do it then you

even a fully modded 335 with every thing you can put in it is not going to compare to the new M3, say otherwise and your just dreaming; maybe if you could swap the turbos and run even more boost but then you really risk blowing your engine and a whole new set of mods would be required




also theres no way youll be able to defeat that beautiful high revving v8 sound ::cums::

[BigDog]

Originally Posted by NFS13

If that's the case then BMW would sell 1/3 of the M3's they sell annually.

lease is the magic word

[enwhykiid]

the gtr doesnt look so bad now does it?

[stressdoc]

Usually no ED discount for M3 -- that is a deal killer for me.
For me the comparison is:
36k E90 335 ED
2k Bilstein coilovers installed
2k M wheels and PS2s
1.3k PROcede
2k Quaife LSD installed
.2k interior M parts
.5k sway bars, bushings
________
44k total

If I could get an E90 M3 for under 50k that would be a better option for me. But without the 5k or so discount below USA MSRP that you can get with ED and a bargain price (invoice + 1k), that does not seem likely.

[musc]

Easiest way is just buy both. 335i for daily driver and M3 for weekends.

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by teknochild

for fugg

1 you dont know the m3 will only be 60k base

2 if your going to compare them dont compare fully loaded to bare, compare fully loaded to fully loaded

My "almost" fully loaded 335i had an MSRP of $53k (and that includes the ss pedals and window tint I made my dealer throw in at n/c ) and I got it for $49,500. So far, some ppl expect a somewhat fully loaded '03 M3 to have an MSRP ~ $70k which is $17k more than my 335i. Also, most ppl agree that the new M3 will not be discounted at least for the first MY of 2008; so, then you have to figure that a similarly-equipped M3 will end up being > $20k more than a 335i.

[SkipSauls]

If by "weekends" you mean "at the track", then it would be far better to get a real track car, or still better a real race car, than an M3. The M3 is going to get beat up on the track, you'll be in mod-hell trying to make it into a "real" track car (don't kid yourself into thinking that any M-car is a real track car out-of-the-box), and you'll be limited to doing things like DEs where street cars are okay.

If the guesses of a $20k difference between a 335i and a M3 are correct, you could get a very good SCCA or NASA legal race car and run several events, including tires, fuel, repairs, etc. Get a Spec Miata for anywhere from $5k to $15k for a nice one, get your SCCA license, and go racing! I can assure you it's a hell of a lot more fun than DEs, open track days, canyon blasting, or drag racing. I went through the progression and ended up competing in the SPEED World Challenge last year, and my only regret is that I didn't get into racing a long, long time ago!

"Better a racer for a day than a spectator for life"

Now an M3 for the week and a racecar for the weekend would also be nice, although I'd bet on the 335i being a nicer car on the street and would rather use the $20k or so on racing.

[stressdoc]

I could be wrong here, but it looks to me like the real performance car from BMW will be the Z2 M. The reported weight for that is around 2000 lbs. With a 274 bhp FI 4cyl or the N54 it will be amazing, especially at USA (no autobahn) speeds.

[FirstClass]

Originally Posted by sflgator

1. PROcede is $1,300
2. Although an LSD would be very beneficial, I'm not totally convicned that it's absolutely necessary; however, I now know that a set of wider, stickier non-RFT tires is a must with a PROcede-equipped 335i (my set of 19" Michelin PS2s cost $1,262 from DiscountTireDirect.com) + balancing/mounting from a local tire shop.
3. Some suspension mods would help.

1) True.
2) Only using 1/2 of your avaible traction for acceleration 4tl. You won't be able to take a stock M3 no matter how much HP you have on a dyno if you can't put it to pavement.
3) Some suspension mods would help? Are you kidding me? If previous M3s are any indication you're going to need to do a crapload of suspension mods to even come close to the M3.

Originally Posted by stressdoc

I could be wrong here, but it looks to me like the real performance car from BMW will be the Z2 M. The reported weight for that is around 2000 lbs. With a 274 bhp FI 4cyl or the N54 it will be amazing, especially at USA (no autobahn) speeds.

I love the idea of that engine (wish Lotus had used it or a similar BMW design in the Elise) but you're about 1000 pounds light on that weight estimate. I seriously doubt that the M2 will drop 1000 pounds from the 120.

[berm3]

The new M3 will be a cool car to have. It will probably cost around 70k, but what can you buy brand new for 70k that will be close to performance, besides corvette?

[scottp999]

Will have to trade up in a few years here. Will keep the 335 for a while.

[SP330]

Originally Posted by fugginfazt

Someone convince me otherwise:

E92 335 fully loaded 48K

E92 M3 base 60k

To get a 335 even close in performance:
procede 1500
suspension 2500
LSD 3500
lightweight interior and body panels 5500
Etc. Etc.

Seems to me your gonna spend that 15 to 20k difference just to catch up to the M3's
street capabilities, and you will still get spanked on the track

If you are so inclined to increase the already stellar performance of the 335i to match or exceed the M3's, it wouldn't be hard and certainly wouldn't cost that much money.

Forget lightweight panels. BMW introduced the N54 to save weight and fuel. You really think the V8 in the M3 will be light?

The only reasons (logically) to buy the new M3 would be:

1. styling
2. badge
3. to have everything come out of the box, albeit on the very heavy side

A properly modified 335i would yield a lower price, insurance premium, and fuel bill, all while equaling or surpassing the M3's performance in a less pretentious package. Sounds like a winner to me.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by fugginfazt

Someone convince me otherwise:

E92 335 fully loaded 48K

E92 M3 base 60k

To get a 335 even close in performance:
procede 1500
suspension 2500
LSD 3500
lightweight interior and body panels 5500
Etc. Etc.

Seems to me your gonna spend that 15 to 20k difference just to catch up to the M3's
street capabilities, and you will still get spanked on the track

No no, keep going. I wanna know what "etc, etc" mods I will need to put on the car to EVER get to 20k. Oh and explain the "lightweight interior" while you're at it. Plz

[fugginfazt]

[QUOTE=Forget lightweight panels. BMW introduced the N54 to save weight and fuel. You really think the V8 in the M3 will be light?

^ Yes, the new V8 is 30 lbs lighter than the S54

[bronco]

70K will get you into a brand spanking new Z06 and that is a real track car

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by SP330

If you are so inclined to increase the already stellar performance of the 335i to match or exceed the M3's, it wouldn't be hard and certainly wouldn't cost that much money.

Forget lightweight panels. BMW introduced the N54 to save weight and fuel. You really think the V8 in the M3 will be light?

The only reasons (logically) to buy the new M3 would be:

1. styling
2. badge
3. to have everything come out of the box, albeit on the very heavy side

A properly modified 335i would yield a lower price, insurance premium, and fuel bill, all while equaling or surpassing the M3's performance in a less pretentious package. Sounds like a winner to me.

I agree with you completely. I mean suddenly everyone's trashing the 335's suspension like it's the same as a civic's. I want to hear exactly what UNBELIEVEABLE suspension mods the M3 has that it's so IMPOSSIBLE for the 335 to reach. Sway bars? Coilovers? Strut towers? Come on now, don't talk shit and not be able to back it up.

[Robert]

This thread is about the M3 and its performance. What I have seen is a lot of 335i owners justifying their purchase. No one cares. If you are happy with it then be merry it. It's in no one's business to talk about other people's finance either. Keep the thread on topic.

Does a 18-19 year old with no salary has a business driving a M3? Who cares. Are you going to say he's can't afford it?

Originally Posted by BigDog

sure a person could be sitting on an oil well... there's LOTS of different cases...


but in general... a person with 70-100k salary has no business buying a M3

[Plan B]

Originally Posted by SkipSauls

If by "weekends" you mean "at the track", then it would be far better to get a real track car, or still better a real race car, than an M3. The M3 is going to get beat up on the track, you'll be in mod-hell trying to make it into a "real" track car (don't kid yourself into thinking that any M-car is a real track car out-of-the-box), and you'll be limited to doing things like DEs where street cars are okay.

If the guesses of a $20k difference between a 335i and a M3 are correct, you could get a very good SCCA or NASA legal race car and run several events, including tires, fuel, repairs, etc. Get a Spec Miata for anywhere from $5k to $15k for a nice one, get your SCCA license, and go racing! I can assure you it's a hell of a lot more fun than DEs, open track days, canyon blasting, or drag racing. I went through the progression and ended up competing in the SPEED World Challenge last year, and my only regret is that I didn't get into racing a long, long time ago!

"Better a racer for a day than a spectator for life"

Now an M3 for the week and a racecar for the weekend would also be nice, although I'd bet on the 335i being a nicer car on the street and would rather use the $20k or so on racing.

+1...didn't evo mag recently modded an e36 M3 to run less than 8min. at "The Ring"? I think they gutted the car, throw on a set of coilovers, brakes, and chip/tune...that was it.

These are halo cars. Few will ever see real track time…in its first round of ownership anyway. Fewer will ever be exploited to its intended potential.

Or, you can do what SkipSauls suggested…get a spec Miata for 5K…and have more fun that the bloke in the Porsche…and I HAVE a track ready 996. People just love bragging rights and bench-race on the internet I guess.

[scottp999]

Originally Posted by bobbo

This thread is about the M3 and its performance. What I have seen is a lot of 335i owners justifying their purchase. No one cares.

That's what this is for:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/index.php