Performance Friction Direct Drive rotors

[RickyBobby]

Originally Posted by ScheerSpeed

the seals on the pistons on all 4 corners cracked and melted...

I also have titanium shims to help with that.
Tell us more about the ducting pieces you bought. What are you using for backing plates? I'm waiting for bimmerworld or turner to release a complete kit with a decent set of backing plates.

[66BM]

I'm still failing to see how the brakes are giving you such a problem, new pads, half gone? Excuse me for not understanding, but doing Watkins Glen, The Poconos, VIR, NJ Motorsports Park, and then an entire season of AutoX on one set of pads with still no fade, I am very perplexed at your issue. Everyone drives the car "HARD", me 155 down the back straight at pocono, 154 in NJ, 151 at the Glen, all prior to HARD Right handers where heel/toe and 150 - 60 is a must. So either riding the brakes is an issue, the car had over 50k on the factory pads, or there is a defect in the hardware. Before spending tons of money to fix a problem that may be user related, I would go back to the track and talk to a few instructors who have m3's, (they are always around) and ask them about getting the most out of their car. But racing formula cars and karts one would hope that you know these caviats. No need to throw money at a problem if a multi stage approach can be used to resolve it.

[Jeff_DML]

he did post this

Originally Posted by ScheerSpeed

thanks for the info. actually ive been racing formula cars and kartsfor 9 years its just ive never really driven many street cars on track... only the formula renault, and it's a completely different ball game because the M3 weighs about 3 or so formula renault's lol

I had brake problems in my wrx and I have my first event in my m3 coming up so I am a bit worried too.

[66BM]

Originally Posted by Jeff_DML

he did post this



I had brake problems in my wrx and I have my first event in my m3 coming up so I am a bit worried too.

Not sure what you're worried about. The stock setup is more than capable of handling multiple track days, and hard breaking. I've got one question: When you took your M or when you take your M to the track, are you driving solo, or is there an instructor in the car with you?

[Jeff_DML]

Originally Posted by manonfire

Not sure what you're worried about. The stock setup is more than capable of handling multiple track days, and hard breaking. I've got one question: When you took your M or when you take your M to the track, are you driving solo, or is there an instructor in the car with you?

for me?

I am doing a bmw CCA event so a instructor will be in the vehicle most of the time, I will probably be by myself for a session or two.

[66BM]

Originally Posted by Jeff_DML

for me?

I am doing a bmw CCA event so a instructor will be in the vehicle most of the time, I will probably be by myself for a session or two.

How many events have you done? I ask for a reason. The BMW is VERY capable of withstanding many many track days. I am still perplexed as to how ScheerSpeed had serious brake problems. Especially after only 5 sessions.

[Jeff_DML]

~20, like I said have not driven my m3 yet on the track. The wrx I had issues with was tuned.

[noxredna]

I completely agree with manonfire, I have done a number of years of DE and the M3 is definitely capable enough on the track. I just flushed the brake fluid and am using stock pads and rotors and had absolutely no issue on the track. I was just out this weekend in NJMP thunderbolt track and was running advanced group - I had to brake from 130 down to 60 for turn 1 and the car was perfectly fine.

It starts getting a little softer after 20 minutes of hard driving but sessions only last for 20-25 mins.

I think it's more than sufficient to start with Pads, Fluids and Lines - don't get too influenced by vendors who keep pushing different pads, go out there and try it out first before you bust $500.

[lucid]

Manonfire, the issues is not hitting high speeds on a hot lap. It is hitting those speeds/times lap after lap in a prolonged fashion. I did that for the most part of 3 x 40+ minute sessions at the Glen, and rotor temperatures at the paddock were over 600C. RS19 pads were literally smoking. Things really start to break down in those conditions (and pad wear seems to accelerate).

This is not just my opinion/observation. I have a friend with a E90 M3 who is an experienced racer. One of the faster guys in the region. I've had this conversation with him, and he said, "It's a heavy road car, you can't push it like that and expect the brakes to hold up. You need to conserve the car between hot laps."

I don't think there is anything surprising about any of this. Not reason enough to drop $7k in a BBK necessarily. Plenty of realiable fun to be had in 25-30 min DE sessions. Track layout matters as well. Never had the same issue at Lime Rock or NJMP with 30 min sessions for instance, and rotor temps remained below or around 500C at the paddock.

[slikk66]

I just did Laguna Seca ( check the videos!: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366679 ) and I'm pretty sure I warped my rotors.

I don't have much experience on the track, this was my 5th event (Autoclub Speeday, Infineon, Button Willow, Willow Springs, Laguna Seca) each of them 2 days.

I just got my pads replaced at 26k miles, about 1 week before I went to Laguna Seca. The computer when I picked it up after the brake job said I had 26k miles left on the front pads. It now says 8k miles after about 100 laps at Laguna.. and the rotors were shaking like crazy on the track towards the end..

I had some minor shaking happen after Autoclub, but nothing like this last time. Also, after Autoclub it mostly went away after a few days, but never completely. I also still had the same minor shaking after they did the brake job, months later. I'm not sure if they replaced the rotors or not.. I can't find my paperwork now.

However, I personally dont think its the "material on the rotor" situation this time.. I can feel the pedal modulating up and down as I brake.. I'm going to take it in.

I do think that being on the brakes too long does have a part in it, I know that compared to some of the guys I've ridden with, they brake harder and for a shorter period of time than I do. I have been trying to work on that, and towards the end of Laguna I felt I was making progress.. but be warned if you do some track days!!

[Jeff_DML]

the pad deposit on the rotor are not even, thus the wobble. Put on some aggressive track pads and stop from high speed a couple of times can remove it or a rotor resurface, dealer most likely just replace them(hopefully)

[66BM]

It may be a combination of things. I only have 10K on the car. Its not a daily driver, so I don't sit in stop and go traffic. It probably is that and the way I apply the brakes on the track. Hard and smooth, for shorter periods of time. Harder and Smoother is the key. No riding the brakes. It takes some getting used to. Suprisingly, like I said, I just changed the pads this season and the rotors are still solid. One suggestion, after your cool down lap, when you come in to the paddock, DO NOT apply the E-brake and roll the car front and back after a few minutes. Keeps the pads from locking or burning on the rotors. Good luck with the brakes. It would suck to have to completely change rotors and pads all the time.

[Bubbles]

Sheer

Homestead is tough on your brakes. I burned thru all four brake boots, but my buddy drove his M3 with no issues. Sebring may be better suited for you ride. I'll be there.

[RickyBobby]

Anyone who thinks that they have warped rotors please send them to me and I'd be happy to take them off your hands

[66BM]

Originally Posted by lucid

Manonfire, the issues is not hitting high speeds on a hot lap. It is hitting those speeds/times lap after lap in a prolonged fashion. I did that for the most part of 3 x 40+ minute sessions at the Glen, and rotor temperatures at the paddock were over 600C. RS19 pads were literally smoking. Things really start to break down in those conditions (and pad wear seems to accelerate).

This is not just my opinion/observation. I have a friend with a E90 M3 who is an experienced racer. One of the faster guys in the region. I've had this conversation with him, and he said, "It's a heavy road car, you can't push it like that and expect the brakes to hold up. You need to conserve the car between hot laps."

I don't think there is anything surprising about any of this. Not reason enough to drop $7k in a BBK necessarily. Plenty of realiable fun to be had in 25-30 min DE sessions. Track layout matters as well. Never had the same issue at Lime Rock or NJMP with 30 min sessions for instance, and rotor temps remained below or around 500C at the paddock.

I agree 100%. And we've met by the way, at NJMP. Like my previous post, I think it is a combination of things. And you are right, it is a heavy car that needs plenty of lightening. But, I've done all the above tracks, very fast, many times, and never experienced those issues. Not yet at least.

[ScheerSpeed]

Originally Posted by lucid

RS19 pads were literally smoking.

my PF 01 were smoking when i came in on a hot lap to quickly check tire pressures!

[ScheerSpeed]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Sheer

Homestead is tough on your brakes. I burned thru all four brake boots, but my buddy drove his M3 with no issues. Sebring may be better suited for you ride. I'll be there.

i might be there next month with chin

[ScheerSpeed]

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

Anyone who thinks that they have warped rotors please send them to me and I'd be happy to take them off your hands

did a few 100-0 stops last night, the vibration is almost gone

maybe it's just making the rotor straight again

[ScheerSpeed]

Originally Posted by manonfire

I agree 100%. And we've met by the way, at NJMP. Like my previous post, I think it is a combination of things. And you are right, it is a heavy car that needs plenty of lightening. But, I've done all the above tracks, very fast, many times, and never experienced those issues. Not yet at least.

i think lucid answered your questions just about spot on...

different tracks call for different wear on certain parts. certainly brake pads wear down faster at higher temperatures (correct me if im wrong). and like lucid said, top speeds dont really have much to do with how hard you use your brakes. stock pads vs PF01 pads are going to stop pretty much the same distance and time at normal temperatures. however at elevated temperatures, track pads are made to operate at those temperatures, and stock pads are not. meaning the higher the temperature the better a track pad will perform vs. a street pad.

[66BM]

Originally Posted by ScheerSpeed

i think lucid answered your questions just about spot on...

different tracks call for different wear on certain parts. certainly brake pads wear down faster at higher temperatures (correct me if im wrong). and like lucid said, top speeds dont really have much to do with how hard you use your brakes. stock pads vs PF01 pads are going to stop pretty much the same distance and time at normal temperatures. however at elevated temperatures, track pads are made to operate at those temperatures, and stock pads are not. meaning the higher the temperature the better a track pad will perform vs. a street pad.

Actually you answered my questions a few posts back. I too am a veteran at the track and other forms of racing. You are absolutely right, that most OEM setups are incapable of handling the stresses of both high speeds and high speed stops. And "track" pads or racing pads and rotors are designed just for that, racing. My point was more of a curiosity, as I have yet to still see this issue. Not saying it doesn't happen, just has happened to my setup. AND hopefully it won't. But, I also don't have the miles on my track car as it isn't a daily driver. It has roughly 10K miles, track and autocross mix.

[dawgdog]

I warped my stock rotors after about 10 events.

[ScheerSpeed]

its been a few weeks of driving now and no more vibration under braking, so it must have been uneven deopsits. however my rotors are cracked to hell