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07-10-2012, 04:04 PM | #133 | |
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07-10-2012, 04:08 PM | #134 | |
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1. What? 2. We buy performance cars to hear the sound of the motor, not to hear a fake sound amplified through speakers. Your argument is invalid because it compares an experience we cannot have everyday - i.e. listen to our music live, hence the birth of the high end audiophile industry - to something we pay dearly to do on a regular basis, i.e. drive a high performance car and listen to the sound of its motor - one of the purest expressions of being an auto enthusiast/ 3. Thanks Captain Obvious. Those economics and marketing classes really helped, didn't they? You see, there is a fine line between being profitable and successful and being so at the expense of the hand that feeds you. Right now it's easy to say we love BMW, let's see where we are in another 5 - 10 years of unwhelming cars. It will be no different from Audi's "S" division. The reason why I am so vehement is because I loved BMW Motorsport. I was a fanboi for years, I've owned a few of them (not listed in my sig. is a Z3MC and an E36 M3 that belonged to my best friend who I shared a place with and we swapped cars all the time). I am hugely disappointed in where BMW Motorsport has gone. From no CSL to these overpriced, underwhelming offerings. Yes, the E92 M3 is a great all around car, but for its price, its performance is not that exciting on most tracks. Yes, I do track my cars. Guess what, the next M3 will not be a 100% M developed motor anymore. Does anyone care? Drawing a parallel to the V8 from the I6 is somewhat fair, but at least there was a reason why BMW did it (ALMS, Google the story) and the V8 was still in house, NA and not a tuned stock BMW motor.
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07-10-2012, 04:09 PM | #135 |
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07-10-2012, 04:09 PM | #136 | |
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07-10-2012, 04:10 PM | #137 |
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wow kind of harsh
but i kind of agree... sort of i would say any AMG or an ISF is way more of a "poser" car than an M, though
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07-10-2012, 04:11 PM | #138 | |
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For most people there is a balance between being a slave to a narrow set of principles for a brand and whoring the brand out to the point that it no longer means anything. Differing people draw the lines in differing places. History though is full of brands that lost the public eye and rotted away. That's pretty much covered in most basic business classes. |
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07-10-2012, 04:11 PM | #139 |
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he makes many valid points and it is clear he is concerned - so am I and I appreciate the passion for the brand. however, we need BMW financially healthy in these troubled times so every now and then they can turn out what we can all agree is a car deserving of the M badge (e.g. 1M). bottom line for me, yes the M badge has been a wee bit abused as of late but I will forgive them if every three years or so they pump out the equivalent of the 1M and make 2,500 of them instead of 800. for me, that would also be the M3 Europe only lightweight sedan with its racing seats, more extensive use of carbon, and performance exhaust. if they took that concept and applied it to the Coupe, removed the back seat, and installed a roll cage or at least made it an option - all in. alas, you shall say, "they did, the GTS" or whatever they called the 4.4 liter EUROPE ONLY car for $150k+. if we can't buy it here is the USA and it cost as much as a 911 turbo it does not count in my book
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07-10-2012, 04:13 PM | #140 | |
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Anyway, this is a moot point and we digress from the argument at hand.
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07-10-2012, 04:13 PM | #141 | |
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^^^Excellent^^^ |
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07-10-2012, 04:22 PM | #143 | |
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Answer to your last question: 1M and M3. However they need to be better. I don't think BMW profitability rests on M. It does increase with "halo" M branded hardware for the regular classes. Since BMW doesn't appear to report M segment vs. other automotive segment revenueI don't know if one can access its financials and analyse relative profitability and contribution across these specific segments. If I had to take a gander, I would say M has higher margins and lower absolute profitibility.
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07-10-2012, 04:23 PM | #144 |
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+1 There poser market will ALWAYS be part of higher end cars .Its a fact that some people just can't deal with but its the truth.Lets face it, if you have the $$$ you have the right to buy it.I'll bet half the owners of newer M cars couldn't tell you any more about the car than what the salesman told them.Like I said before , the "masses" will buy because they want to be seen in a nice car and some of them work there way up into some REALLY nice cars without even knowing it.LOL
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07-10-2012, 04:25 PM | #145 | |
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I caught that too, and was hoping others did as well. The guy has a few solid points, but overall seems very butt hurt about the situation. From the title, I was expecting a rant about all the different M models there are now, X5M, X6M, 1M, M235 etc. etc. Though I'm not happy with how the brand is (hardly) handling the demand for mainly performance vehicles (instead of mainly luxury), all it takes is 30 seconds driving a non BMW to realize, they're still miles ahead of the competition. Which is exactly why I still love BMW. |
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07-10-2012, 04:27 PM | #146 | |
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You wouldn't walk away from your deal with 5k in you pocket. Invoice (+1k) from your favorite CA- 56,290 Options from your favorite CA 14,155 Total 70,445 In other words, they are selling the Limerock car pretty close to invoice (70,100) with no hassle. Options: paint, competition pak, muffler,chin splitter, spoiler, steering wheel interior trim. |
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07-10-2012, 04:32 PM | #147 | |
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But the end result is still the ///M getting diluted. |
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07-10-2012, 04:35 PM | #148 |
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For people that want a 3000 lb bare bones car with a small motor- go to lotus. You better hurry because they're teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. Nobody wants a $50,000 slot car as a daily driver.
You want a tourer on the road and a beast on the track. So you want two cars- guess what- that adds weight with complex suspensions and additional engine power to move that mass around. |
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07-10-2012, 04:37 PM | #149 |
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Sorry, I didn't get your point the first time around. To me a true M car is a sports car and not a porky luxury GT. Porsche sold ~120k units last year and BMW sold ~1.6M. While Porsche probably has higher margins, I highly doubt Porsche's bottom line comes close to BMW's.
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07-10-2012, 04:38 PM | #150 | |
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There will be some news on the F80 soon enough and will put peoples minds in perspective. People also need to realize BMM M GmbH does NOT control its own fate- BMW AG does. BMW AG has final say into products and what is to be built in serial production. M designs cars that they'd like to see then the board makes adjustments or says NO- there is an entire collection of M products that never were green lighted.... M5 Performance edition anyone? Which had the 5.5l engine that was to power the BMW CS Flagship (Headed by M) that was also axed by BMW AG.
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07-10-2012, 04:39 PM | #151 |
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I own a E92 M3, but I'm building a 2012 Mustang GT 5.0 track car because I can make a real track beast easily out of it. It's just come to the point where BMW isn't making the lean race cars they should have continued to make since the early years. When a car almost 1/3 the price of the M3 can do everything it can do on the track, you've got a problem.
The M3 is now a luxury sports car. It's lost its edge. While this article is a bit over-dramatic, it still hits the mark. BMW M division, are you listening? |
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07-10-2012, 04:51 PM | #152 |
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Slightly off-topic, but do you "enthusiasts" think the gt86 is a return to standards for what the ///M badge should stand for?
I am rather curious about the BMW and Toyota rumor that is going around. That joint venture might just keep enthusiasts happy. |
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07-10-2012, 04:52 PM | #153 |
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Thank you for speaking the truth and ignoring all the fan boys out there. Management has been whoring out the BMW and M brands to the point they are becoming meaningless.
The accountants and marketers are running the shop and that is never a good thing. The passion has been missing and soon BMW will be like Honda, wondering what happened. I know companies are in the business of making money, but this drive to become Toyota is getting out of hand. Strive to be the best, not the biggest.
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Last edited by xspeedy; 07-10-2012 at 05:12 PM.. |
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07-10-2012, 04:56 PM | #154 | |
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My point about Porsche was somewhat sarcastic seeing as VW just made the final buy out to completely own them. |
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