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      02-15-2015, 02:39 PM   #2223
M3NahRich
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Rod bearings

Guess the pictures didn't load the first time
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      02-15-2015, 02:40 PM   #2224
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More Rod bearing pictures

Here Yall go
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      02-15-2015, 02:41 PM   #2225
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Rod bearings

There you go
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      02-15-2015, 03:38 PM   #2226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Great way to get off on a cordial reengagement... But, nope, you're totally missing the point, as usual.

Please provide me with one shred of data about bearing clearance tolerance variation vs. engine lifetime. You better stick to turning wrenches rather than discussing matters dominated by serious engineering and science. After all, you've never shared a single iota about your credentials.

Too tight is no good and too loose is as well, there is a sweet spot in between and it depends on loads, part strength, redline, oil and other factors.

For about the millionth time, I am NOT saying that extremes in tolerance stacking is not a factor here, I'm just saying that we have no proof and don't even have an appropriate metric or "yardstick" to use along with RGs new data.

Do you feel that 1/10th of a thou standard deviation for crank rod journals is significantly higher than norm for a high performance production engine? If so that opinion or conclusion should be supported by your data. Let's see that. Again, that is only the first step, the next is some metric about how bad this standard deviation is (really the standard deviation in the clearance itself ultimately, but the new data here is more about the crank).
I have a engineering degree, and have worked for the most successful race team in this country for 16 years. Those who matter know who it is and what I do. In fact a lot of GMs r&d work comes from us. Our operating budget is $200 million a year. If you cant figure it out... well I don't actually care if you figure it out.
Like I said stick to the textbooks that everyone else has written, in fact a few of the Clevite articles were actually written by our shop.
Skepticism is great but all you seem to do is crap on the hard evidence and numbers generated by multiple people. If you cant take the hard numbers from 10-15 different cranks and over a hundred rod bores and then a hundred clearance checks all while measuring crush numbers to make sure funny business is not there either. When you find over a 50% variation in clearance on some engines, like a few rods are .0012 then down the line they are .0019 then I guess you will never be convinced of anything.Clevite makes a book that has all these numbers for hundreds of different engines. It gives rod/main journal sizes and clearance measurements, bore measurements. All kinds of hard info from manufacturers that they deem as ok for a engine. If you want to flex your fantastic reading skills why don't you read that for a hot minute and you will see what acceptable deviations are for crank sizes, rod bore sizes etc.
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      02-15-2015, 03:42 PM   #2227
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Originally Posted by SMRT_SG*E92 M3 View Post
There you go
Can you take a better picture of these areas, looks like some pretty bad delamination from cavitation. The oil gets so hot in these areas it explodes on the journal like a tiny grenade eroding the material away. Reason I ask is most bearings don't seem to show much of it but these do.
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      02-15-2015, 04:42 PM   #2228
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Question about a ticking noise. I hear a rhythmic tick from under the engine area. It's a pretty faint sound, goes away as soon as I apply any sort of throttle.

Does the ticking noise associated with the rod bearings "follow" the RPMs? As in does it get louder with application of the throttle? Thanks
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      02-15-2015, 04:58 PM   #2229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamspeed View Post
Question about a ticking noise. I hear a rhythmic tick from under the engine area. It's a pretty faint sound, goes away as soon as I apply any sort of throttle.

Does the ticking noise associated with the rod bearings "follow" the RPMs? As in does it get louder with application of the throttle? Thanks
If you are saying..."goes away as soon as I apply any sort of throttle"
For me that's just normal for the S65 !
But when the ticking noise gets louder when raising rpm's that's bad news !
Rattle noises are even worst !
So for me personal your case is normal .
In case of doubt just post a video and take cam close to driver side front wheel .
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      02-15-2015, 05:04 PM   #2230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasaki00 View Post
Can you take a better picture of these areas, looks like some pretty bad delamination from cavitation. The oil gets so hot in these areas it explodes on the journal like a tiny grenade eroding the material away. Reason I ask is most bearings don't seem to show much of it but these do.
You are right about this !
Just zoomed "into 150%" what shows these areas very clear .
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      02-15-2015, 05:05 PM   #2231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamspeed View Post
Question about a ticking noise. I hear a rhythmic tick from under the engine area. It's a pretty faint sound, goes away as soon as I apply any sort of throttle.

Does the ticking noise associated with the rod bearings "follow" the RPMs? As in does it get louder with application of the throttle? Thanks
If you are saying..."goes away as soon as I apply any sort of throttle"
For me that's just normal for the S65 !
But when the ticking noise gets louder when raising rpm's that's bad news !
Rattle noises are even worst !
So for me personal your case is normal .
In case of doubt just post a video and take cam close to driver side front wheel .
Thanks, I try to look up the videos with rod bearing noise and most are the raaaaaaping sound that increases with throttle. Mine does not sound like that but all these rod bearing thread is making me a little more worried. If it gets worse I will try to record the noise.
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      02-15-2015, 05:40 PM   #2232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasaki00 View Post
Can you take a better picture of these areas, looks like some pretty bad delamination from cavitation. The oil gets so hot in these areas it explodes on the journal like a tiny grenade eroding the material away. Reason I ask is most bearings don't seem to show much of it but these do.
+1

I was going to say the bearings don't look horrible for 65k (relatively speaking) with the exception of those pock-marked areas (and the one fourth from bottom on the left).
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      02-15-2015, 09:02 PM   #2233
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Last week I replaced a set of bearings in a friends car. The details are 102k miles, '08, The car is always warmed up properly (meaning idled for 2-3 minutes and then the RPMs are kept under 3k until the oil temp reaches a minimum of 180), the car has been tuned since 48k miles by BPM, has test pipes, intake and the AA under drive pulley. He has always ran 10w-60 and changed the oil at 5k mile intervals. When the engine is warmed up, the car is basically driven like it's been stolen and sees redline every day it is driven. It is also tracked from time to time. The recent blackstone reports showed elevated lead, but that was suspect to the race gas he runs in the car on a some what regular basis. We opted for coated bearings from VAC and ARP replacement bolts. Hopefully the pics load, I am posting from a mobile device. The results were shocking to say the least. I'm not at all convinced that when driven and maintained properly these engines have a real issue after seeing these results first hand
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      02-15-2015, 09:11 PM   #2234
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Edit: I'll have to add the pics later
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      02-15-2015, 09:12 PM   #2235
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      02-15-2015, 09:14 PM   #2236
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^ woooow !! Are you sure that this was this the first time rod bearings were changed?
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      02-15-2015, 09:17 PM   #2237
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      02-15-2015, 09:18 PM   #2238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSickM
^ woooow !! Are you sure that this was this the first time rod bearings were changed?
Yes. I do all of the maintenance on his car.
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      02-15-2015, 10:28 PM   #2239
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They all look pretty nice, except for the top of #5?
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      02-15-2015, 11:34 PM   #2240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilehighM3 View Post
Yes. I do all of the maintenance on his car.
Thanks for sharing. And there was no knocking/noise I guess but you changed simply to be on safe side?
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      02-16-2015, 02:20 AM   #2241
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One more
that's why I am still sticking with 10w-60.
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      02-16-2015, 04:35 AM   #2242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilehighM3 View Post
Last week I replaced a set of bearings in a friends car. The details are 102k miles, '08,
It would be fascinating to know what the bearing clearances were on this car...whatever they were, its clearly working. ISTM to make far more sense to use a clearance from cars that reach a good mileage in excellent shape than guessing at one based on cars that don't (for the new bearings).
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      02-16-2015, 06:05 AM   #2243
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Best looking set of bearings posted yet that have been changed as preventative maintenance. Way, way better than mine at 65k miles and mine were better than most.

If we have seen 25 examples of bearings changed as preventative maintenance, I am not at all surprised 1 of the 25 has been nearly perfect. I would have expected at least 20 of the 25 to be nearly perfect, but that has not been the case.
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      02-16-2015, 06:18 AM   #2244
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Although it has to be said the ones changed privately invariably are in better condition than those changed at garages.
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