BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
BPM
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-16-2011, 02:07 AM   #67
dvpouldar26
Major
dvpouldar26's Avatar
64
Rep
1,498
Posts

Drives: 2008 e92 328i, Porsche 987.1
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beverly Hills, CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Not sure if they want the CR info released or what rods they are using, I'll let them post about that. Boost should be in the 12psi range, 91 octane. Good point on the cams, I'm not sure they have any even available yet for the S65, never looked into it, and frankly I'd rather keep as many things OEM as I can.
There are 2 versions of cams available for the S65, both made by Schrick, but both with unproven gains so far. And for their price of $2600 and $2800, respectively, I doubt many are going to take the plunge for some small gains.
__________________
E92 328i
Jet Black / Gloss Black Grilles / 8000k D1S low beam / 6000k HID fogs / GP Thunder 8500k angels & cornering bulbs / black reflectors / gloss black vinyled window trim / tints / smoked rear turn signals / black roundels / AC Schnitzer roof spoiler / VRS style decklid spoiler / Matte black Stripes / Rear fogs / matte mirrors / 19" LM reps / APR lip
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2011, 02:33 AM   #68
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
DLSJ5's Avatar
United_States
501
Rep
4,033
Posts

Drives: 2016 F82 M4 ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvpouldar26 View Post
There are 2 versions of cams available for the S65, both made by Schrick, but both with unproven gains so far. And for their price of $2600 and $2800, respectively, I doubt many are going to take the plunge for some small gains.
Good info, and I agree with your thoughts as well.
__________________
16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ
Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2011, 07:56 AM   #69
IMG
IMG's Avatar
United_States
1117
Rep
7,690
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh View Post
is the flash loader the dct software
No,the flash loader is for switching between maps to accomedate the Octane you are running!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvpouldar26 View Post
There are 2 versions of cams available for the S65, both made by Schrick, but both with unproven gains so far. And for their price of $2600 and $2800, respectively, I doubt many are going to take the plunge for some small gains.
I will be trying them soon and i will Dyno before and after to see what gains i get,since im running Schricks on my track car and i luv how they bump the TQ down low and the HP up top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Good info, and I agree with your thoughts as well.
Throw a set of cams while the heart of the beast is under the knife
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2011, 08:53 AM   #70
stega
Captain
28
Rep
666
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3 E93
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Boca Raton, FL

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
No,the flash loader is for switching between maps to accomedate the Octane you are running!



I will be trying them soon and i will Dyno before and after to see what gains i get,since im running Schricks on my track car and i luv how they bump the TQ down low and the HP up top.



Throw a set of cams while the heart of the beast is under the knife

Do it!!! I wanna see this...!
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2011, 10:05 AM   #71
IMG
IMG's Avatar
United_States
1117
Rep
7,690
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

Just got this from PG.

There are five sets of cams available for the S65 motor. Two sets
from Schrick, two sets from RD Sport, and one set PG had custom
designed for his motor build. The Schrick and RD Sport cams are
for NA motors. PG's cams were custom designed for his FI motor.
When he asked his engine guy about the cams, he was told it would
be a mistake to put any of those four sets of NA cams in the FI
motor.

PG's FI cams were designed by Hans Hermann, former BMW engine
designer. Hans supposedly designed the original E30 M3 motor
and/or heads, and was the designer behind taking that motor into
F1. PG's offered to make the FI cam design available to the BMW
community if anybody wants it.
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2011, 11:42 AM   #72
m33
Banned
m33's Avatar
United_States
114
Rep
2,682
Posts

Drives: E92 VT650 MCB Individual
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
Just got this from PG.

There are five sets of cams available for the S65 motor. Two sets
from Schrick, two sets from RD Sport, and one set PG had custom
designed for his motor build. The Schrick and RD Sport cams are
for NA motors. PG's cams were custom designed for his FI motor.
When he asked his engine guy about the cams, he was told it would
be a mistake to put any of those four sets of NA cams in the FI
motor.

PG's FI cams were designed by Hans Hermann, former BMW engine
designer. Hans supposedly designed the original E30 M3 motor
and/or heads, and was the designer behind taking that motor into
F1. PG's offered to make the FI cam design available to the BMW
community if anybody wants it.
How many miles has PG put on his cams ?

what are the performance gains ?

What material Is the cams made from ?
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2011, 02:57 PM   #73
dvpouldar26
Major
dvpouldar26's Avatar
64
Rep
1,498
Posts

Drives: 2008 e92 328i, Porsche 987.1
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beverly Hills, CA

iTrader: (4)

That was exactly what I was going to ask. The schrick and RD cams are made for NA applications and I doubt they are worth the effort got FI applications. For those interested in more info, here's a pdf on their cams for the s65:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/imag...9_BMW_only.pdf

Go to page 8.

Also note that with the increased lift of the 292 degree cam, you run into clearance issues between the valve and the piston.

Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
No,the flash loader is for switching between maps to accomedate the Octane you are running!



I will be trying them soon and i will Dyno before and after to see what gains i get,since im running Schricks on my track car and i luv how they bump the TQ down low and the HP up top.



Throw a set of cams while the heart of the beast is under the knife
Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
Just got this from PG.

There are five sets of cams available for the S65 motor. Two sets
from Schrick, two sets from RD Sport, and one set PG had custom
designed for his motor build. The Schrick and RD Sport cams are
for NA motors. PG's cams were custom designed for his FI motor.
When he asked his engine guy about the cams, he was told it would
be a mistake to put any of those four sets of NA cams in the FI
motor.

PG's FI cams were designed by Hans Hermann, former BMW engine
designer. Hans supposedly designed the original E30 M3 motor
and/or heads, and was the designer behind taking that motor into
F1. PG's offered to make the FI cam design available to the BMW
community if anybody wants it.
__________________
E92 328i
Jet Black / Gloss Black Grilles / 8000k D1S low beam / 6000k HID fogs / GP Thunder 8500k angels & cornering bulbs / black reflectors / gloss black vinyled window trim / tints / smoked rear turn signals / black roundels / AC Schnitzer roof spoiler / VRS style decklid spoiler / Matte black Stripes / Rear fogs / matte mirrors / 19" LM reps / APR lip
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2011, 03:40 PM   #74
IMG
IMG's Avatar
United_States
1117
Rep
7,690
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvpouldar26 View Post
That was exactly what I was going to ask. The schrick and RD cams are made for NA applications and I doubt they are worth the effort got FI applications. For those interested in more info, here's a pdf on their cams for the s65:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/imag...9_BMW_only.pdf

Go to page 8.

Also note that with the increased lift of the 292 degree cam, you run into clearance issues between the valve and the piston.
Thank You Sir !
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2011, 12:35 PM   #75
0-60Motorsports
Brigadier General
0-60Motorsports's Avatar
Bahrain
779
Rep
3,144
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 JB 04 Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kingdom of Bahrain

iTrader: (1)

Looking forward to you build Drew. Im sure you'll be having a lot of fun when its done.
__________________
Current Mods:
2004 E46 M3cs JB/CSL
2010 E70 X5M AW/BLACK
2011 VW Golf R DSG White/Black
IG: @060Motorsports
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2011, 01:39 PM   #76
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
DLSJ5's Avatar
United_States
501
Rep
4,033
Posts

Drives: 2016 F82 M4 ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0-60Motorsports View Post
Looking forward to you build Drew. Im sure you'll be having a lot of fun when its done.
Thanks man! Good to see you posting over here, how are things going?
__________________
16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ
Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2011, 01:48 PM   #77
0-60Motorsports
Brigadier General
0-60Motorsports's Avatar
Bahrain
779
Rep
3,144
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 JB 04 Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kingdom of Bahrain

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Thanks man! Good to see you posting over here, how are things going?
Hey man. Things are good. Getting real hot and humid here in Bahrain. I guess i forget to come here a lot cos i dont have E9X M3. I hope to get an E90 M3 some time in the future.
__________________
Current Mods:
2004 E46 M3cs JB/CSL
2010 E70 X5M AW/BLACK
2011 VW Golf R DSG White/Black
IG: @060Motorsports
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2011, 01:52 PM   #78
duk
///M
United_States
158
Rep
3,195
Posts

Drives: 2011 AW/FR 6MT E92
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Irvine, CA

iTrader: (0)

hey drew, hope the build goes smooth! let's do another dyno day when she's broken in
__________________
2011.5 AW/FR E92 M3 6MT
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2011, 05:32 PM   #79
sales@ESSTuning
sales@ESSTuning's Avatar
388
Rep
3,149
Posts

Drives: ESS M3 / M4
Join Date: May 2007
Location: AZ

iTrader: (6)

Drew’s VT3 project build is the end result of our work over the past 2 years to design a low compression option for the S65 motor. This design will allow the S65 to run 10:1 CR which will allow the use of higher boost safely on pump fuel. A requirement in our design process was the ability to use the OEM Alusil cylinders in order to achieve OEM oil consumption levels, cylinder noise and engine longevity. The only way we feel to do this is to keep the stock displacement and use a custom made Mahle Alusil spec piston that will allow a factory seal by using the OEM BMW piston rings. This requires a motor that is in perfect working condition as we use the original block and cylinder machining. We do not sleeve or bore out the motor for this upgrade as this will compromise the Alusil cylinder seal quality. As an added precaution we also upgrade the rod and main bearings to add another level of safety to the design.

Outside of the motor we have designed a custom fuel delivery system that will allow proper fueling for the elevated levels of boost we will run and a custom belt drive system that retains the factory tensioner. The combination of these upgrades will allow the Vortech V3 supercharger to make 700+ HP on our existing VT2 hardware while retaining OEM quality drivability to the vehicle.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2011, 06:22 PM   #80
IMG
IMG's Avatar
United_States
1117
Rep
7,690
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
Drew’s VT3 project build is the end result of our work over the past 2 years to design a low compression option for the S65 motor. This design will allow the S65 to run 10:1 CR which will allow the use of higher boost safely on pump fuel. A requirement in our design process was the ability to use the OEM Alusil cylinders in order to achieve OEM oil consumption levels, cylinder noise and engine longevity. The only way we feel to do this is to keep the stock displacement and use a custom made Mahle Alusil spec piston that will allow a factory seal by using the OEM BMW piston rings. This requires a motor that is in perfect working condition as we use the original block and cylinder machining. We do not sleeve or bore out the motor for this upgrade as this will compromise the Alusil cylinder seal quality. As an added precaution we also upgrade the rod and main bearings to add another level of safety to the design.

Outside of the motor we have designed a custom fuel delivery system that will allow proper fueling for the elevated levels of boost we will run and a custom belt drive system that retains the factory tensioner. The combination of these upgrades will allow the Vortech V3 supercharger to make 700+ HP on our existing VT2 hardware while retaining OEM quality drivability to the vehicle.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2011, 06:36 PM   #81
DevJ
Colonel
DevJ's Avatar
United_States
154
Rep
2,736
Posts

Drives: R8 V10+/YMB M4
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tulsa, OK

iTrader: (1)

can't wait to see this beast!
__________________
‘23 RRS First Edition
'22 X7 M50i
'18 R8 V10+
http://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=133578&d=1204654487[/IMG]
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2011, 06:59 PM   #82
OM VT3
Lieutenant Colonel
OM VT3's Avatar
140
Rep
1,665
Posts

Drives: 2011 e92 zcp m3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
Drew’s VT3 project build is the end result of our work over the past 2 years to design a low compression option for the S65 motor. This design will allow the S65 to run 10:1 CR which will allow the use of higher boost safely on pump fuel. A requirement in our design process was the ability to use the OEM Alusil cylinders in order to achieve OEM oil consumption levels, cylinder noise and engine longevity. The only way we feel to do this is to keep the stock displacement and use a custom made Mahle Alusil spec piston that will allow a factory seal by using the OEM BMW piston rings. This requires a motor that is in perfect working condition as we use the original block and cylinder machining. We do not sleeve or bore out the motor for this upgrade as this will compromise the Alusil cylinder seal quality. As an added precaution we also upgrade the rod and main bearings to add another level of safety to the design.

Outside of the motor we have designed a custom fuel delivery system that will allow proper fueling for the elevated levels of boost we will run and a custom belt drive system that retains the factory tensioner. The combination of these upgrades will allow the Vortech V3 supercharger to make 700+ HP on our existing VT2 hardware while retaining OEM quality drivability to the vehicle.
dont u think it should make 725 to 750hp with an other 4psi the the right fuel set up, what are the piston and rods made from?
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2011, 07:07 PM   #83
AJ@ESS
Second Lieutenant
29
Rep
230
Posts

Drives: E60 M5
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh View Post
dont u think it should make 725 to 750hp with an other 4psi the the right fuel set up, what are the piston and rods made from?
We always like to be conservative with ratings, that way everyone is happy..
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2011, 07:51 PM   #84
Kyoshi71
Colonel
Kyoshi71's Avatar
93
Rep
2,528
Posts

Drives: 2010 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

I asked about a LC SC engine a while ago. Check out the pages & pages of interest from everyone...

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=453291

Either way, I think LC on this engine is one of the smartest moves you can make to optimize power and keep it running strong for a long long time.

I'm not sure I agree with the few folks who recommend swapping cams. With just LC & a SC alone, you can practically keep the drivability of the car similar or exactly the same as stock while adding a ton of power. Cams change everything. Remember, its not like this car redlines at 5500 rpms and you've done changes that will now enable it to redline at 8400 rpms, which would then require cams that can keep up. This thing is already built to deliver to 8400+. To dick around with lift, duration & degree is asking for a huge headache. I would think vanos mapping would be sufficient? (my 3 cents)

to Drew. He's all in.
__________________
"But resist we much; we must; and we will much; about that be committed."
~Rev. Al Sharpton


2010 E92 M3|Silverstone II|M-DCT|NCSW|2MT|ZCW|ZPP|ZTP|302|507|Gas Guzzler Tax
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2011, 07:57 PM   #85
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
DLSJ5's Avatar
United_States
501
Rep
4,033
Posts

Drives: 2016 F82 M4 ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoshi71 View Post
I asked about a LC SC engine a while ago. Check out the pages & pages of interest from everyone...

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=453291

Either way, I think LC on this engine is one of the smartest moves you can make to optimize power and keep it running strong for a long long time.

I'm not sure I agree with the few folks who recommend swapping cams. With just LC & a SC alone, you can practically keep the drivability of the car similar or exactly the same as stock while adding a ton of power. Cams change everything. Remember, its not like this car redlines at 5500 rpms and you've done changes that will now enable it to redline at 8400 rpms, which would then require cams that can keep up. This thing is already built to deliver to 8400+. To dick around with lift, duration & degree is asking for a huge headache. I would think vanos mapping would be sufficient? (my 3 cents)

to Drew. He's all in.
I love it when people use / apply objectivity and common sense, GREAT POST.

Always appreciate your posts, and thank you for the kind words!
__________________
16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ
Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2011, 08:00 PM   #86
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
DLSJ5's Avatar
United_States
501
Rep
4,033
Posts

Drives: 2016 F82 M4 ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
Drew’s VT3 project build is the end result of our work over the past 2 years to design a low compression option for the S65 motor. This design will allow the S65 to run 10:1 CR which will allow the use of higher boost safely on pump fuel. A requirement in our design process was the ability to use the OEM Alusil cylinders in order to achieve OEM oil consumption levels, cylinder noise and engine longevity. The only way we feel to do this is to keep the stock displacement and use a custom made Mahle Alusil spec piston that will allow a factory seal by using the OEM BMW piston rings. This requires a motor that is in perfect working condition as we use the original block and cylinder machining. We do not sleeve or bore out the motor for this upgrade as this will compromise the Alusil cylinder seal quality. As an added precaution we also upgrade the rod and main bearings to add another level of safety to the design.

Outside of the motor we have designed a custom fuel delivery system that will allow proper fueling for the elevated levels of boost we will run and a custom belt drive system that retains the factory tensioner. The combination of these upgrades will allow the Vortech V3 supercharger to make 700+ HP on our existing VT2 hardware while retaining OEM quality drivability to the vehicle.
Roman,

That is about as perfect as it gets in describing the VT3 build process and your approach. This is going to be A LOT of fun, looking forward to seeing you at Targa Trophy next weekend.
__________________
16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ
Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2011, 08:00 PM   #87
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
DLSJ5's Avatar
United_States
501
Rep
4,033
Posts

Drives: 2016 F82 M4 ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ@ESS View Post
We always like to be conservative with ratings, that way everyone is happy..
__________________
16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ
Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2011, 09:10 PM   #88
OM VT3
Lieutenant Colonel
OM VT3's Avatar
140
Rep
1,665
Posts

Drives: 2011 e92 zcp m3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ@ESS View Post
We always like to be conservative with ratings, that way everyone is happy..
haha unlike some people!!!!
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:05 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST