Autoexpress impressed by M3 ZCP Competition Package Model

Trier Germany · 05-09-2010, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PicassoM

I really don't see the value in the ZCP. I almost ordered it, probably would have if the wheels were forged. But just not value added enough with the m-drive remapping etc... Guess it's just best for people who live at the track.

The ZCP package seems like money not well spent! For $2500.00 you could get Bilsteins PSS10 or KW V3. So you get heavy rims with stretched tires 10mm lowered and some electronic gizmos that are made for beginner drivers?

BMW269 · 05-09-2010, 05:30 AM

No saying the RS5 4.2l V8 is not good, but I think the M3 4.0l V8 is better. But the VERY BIG PROBLEM with the M3 is the EXHAUST. That is why the RS5 sounds much better and has more torque. The M3 should heve got Akrapovic or GTS exhaust stock, or at least optional. It woul then get 40 Nm more torque from beginning to redline. About the 8.500 rpm redline in the RS5, I think it was done for competition, to bet the 8.400 rpm redline of the M3.

RS5 Exhaust >

M3 Exhaust >

I hope the M1 will get a real exhaust, no matter if quads or not.

PS: By the way footie, do you know who much does the RS5 4.2l V8 weigh? The M3 S65 engine weighs 202 kg and is lighter than the M3 S54 engine that weighed 217 kg. I still find that the M engines are heavy and think the Audi engines are lighter. Is it so?

BMRLVR · 05-09-2010, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

Actually the RS5's engine has more torque than the S65 everywhere, so don't assume that the figures suggest something different.

It should have more torque..... it has more displacement. Torque is a function that is directly related to displacement. A nice flat torque curve shows good engine design. The older V8 in the RS4 and the R8 had more torque then the S65 as well.

One thing I have to mention is that I find it rather funny that no matter what thread you are involved in you can't help but mention an Audi in it somewhere. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with friendly debate between competitive cars/enthusiasts but come on man go find an Audi Forum to talk Audi's.

Audi's are awesome cars man but an Audi will always be an Audi and it never will be a BMW....... In saying that I don't mean to imply that they are inferior but rather Audi and BMW have a little different philosophy in building cars. BMW's from 1 through 7 series are usually the benchmark that all other luxury car manufacturers strive to match, the thing is by the time the competition catches up BMW has already released a new model or are on the verge.

ISF, RS4, C63 they were all designed solely as competition for and to compete in the market the M3 created 25 years ago....... But like you mentioned before competition only improves the breed.

BMW269 · 05-09-2010, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

It should have more torque..... it has more displacement. Torque is a function that is directly related to displacement. The a nice flat torque curve shows good engine design. The older V8 in the RS4 and the R8 had more torque then the S65 as well.

One thing I have to mention is that I find it rather funny that no matter what thread you are involved in you can't help but mention an Audi in it somewhere. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with friendly debate between competitive cars/enthusiasts but come on man go find an Audi Forum to talk Audi's.

Audi's are awesome cars man but an Audi will always be an Audi and it never will be a BMW....... In saying that I don't mean to imply that they are inferior but rather Audi and BMW have a little different philosophy in building cars. BMW's from 1 through 7 series are usually the benchmark that all other luxury car manufacturers strive to match, the thing is by the time the competition catches up BMW has already released a new model or are on the verge.

ISF, RS4, C63 they were all designed solely as competition for and to compete in the market the M3 created 25 years ago....... But like you mentioned before competition only improves the breed.

+1

BUT

We have to accept Audi owners and fans. Their forums are just boring, they are so few and have to waite weeks for replies. There are no debates, no discussions.

Quote:

Audiforum
User 1: The new Audi RS5!

(1 week later...)

User 2: I love Audi! Best cars in the world!

(1 month later...)

[no reply]

Audi forums just do not work. There is more Audi discusion on BMW forums than on Audi forums. And on Audi forums they never discuss about BMW, why I do not know. BMW is not worth Audi?

footie · 05-09-2010, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

It should have more torque..... it has more displacement. Torque is a function that is directly related to displacement. A nice flat torque curve shows good engine design. The older V8 in the RS4 and the R8 had more torque then the S65 as well.

I was only correcting his statement and meant nothing by it. There is no need to make this personal.

@Levi,

I have to agree that the exhaust is one of the few failings with the M3, above 6500rpm it's the engine note that excites but below this it plays second fiddle to the Audi RS4 but in my opinion the RS5 still sounds the sweetest at any rev point, something that the RS4 failed to do. As for which is the better engine, I don't think there is a winner or loser here, on technical merit the RS5 is ever so slightly superior but it's real benefit over the S65 is it's DFI which offers superior emissions and economy if all else were the same. As for the weight and whether the RS5 engine is lighter, I don't have the technical data with me but I believe you are correct and it's a bit lighter.

BMRLVR · 05-09-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

I was only correcting his statement and meant nothing by it. There is no need to make this personal.

No intention of getting personal at all it is just something I noticed ever since you sold your M3.

You are totally entitled to your opinion but you have to expect BMW fans in a BMW forum to kinda get tired of the Pro Audi thing all the time. I have owned 7 VAG vehicles in the last 10 years (albeit they were all VW's) and love the product. I think you started this thread with the intention of alerting us to the article in Autoexpress but I said to myself soon as I read your first post "I wonder how long he will go before making this into a Audi Vs BMW thread".

Please don't take offence this is not a personal thing...... I am just stating my observations regarding your posting history on here.

P.S.: Thanks for scanning the article and bringing it to our attention.

JCtx · 05-09-2010, 10:40 PM

Audi S/RS 4/5 are based on the A4/5 FWD platform, and were made AWD as a necessity, or nobody would buy them. Enough said.
They may have advantages over the M3, but driving dynamics is not one of them (RS5 has 60/40 weight distribution). And the RS5 is not available with a stick.
It's always nice to hear comparisons with the M3, even if not complimentary (the M3 is far from perfect), but from actual owners. Good day.

05-09-2010, 05:30 AM	#24
BMW269 Brigadier General 435 Rep 3,888 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	No saying the RS5 4.2l V8 is not good, but I think the M3 4.0l V8 is better. But the VERY BIG PROBLEM with the M3 is the EXHAUST. That is why the RS5 sounds much better and has more torque. The M3 should heve got Akrapovic or GTS exhaust stock, or at least optional. It woul then get 40 Nm more torque from beginning to redline. About the 8.500 rpm redline in the RS5, I think it was done for competition, to bet the 8.400 rpm redline of the M3. RS5 Exhaust > M3 Exhaust > I hope the M1 will get a real exhaust, no matter if quads or not. PS: By the way footie, do you know who much does the RS5 4.2l V8 weigh? The M3 S65 engine weighs 202 kg and is lighter than the M3 S54 engine that weighed 217 kg. I still find that the M engines are heavy and think the Audi engines are lighter. Is it so?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-09-2010, 10:40 PM	#29
JCtx Major General 258 Rep 5,012 Posts Drives: No BMW yet Join Date: May 2008 Location: El Paso TX iTrader: (0)	Audi S/RS 4/5 are based on the A4/5 FWD platform, and were made AWD as a necessity, or nobody would buy them. Enough said. They may have advantages over the M3, but driving dynamics is not one of them (RS5 has 60/40 weight distribution). And the RS5 is not available with a stick. It's always nice to hear comparisons with the M3, even if not complimentary (the M3 is far from perfect), but from actual owners. Good day.
	Appreciate 0 Quote