Stock M3 coupe DCT vs modified Elise

[gr8000]

Hello everyone!

I would like to have your view as to whether my stock DCT M3 coupe will be faster on the track versus a modified 2000 built Elise (182hp / 200Nm), assuming same track conditions, equally skilled drivers and all other variable parameters being equal. Assume a balanced track in terms of turns and straight lines.

A bit of background:
I got a friend who owns a 2000 built Elise with a Rover engine which he just upgraded to (alegedly) 182hp / 200Nm (that's best case assuming the engine is perfectly tuned). The upgrade has nothing to do with supercharging, it was mostly done on the cylinder heads with engine remapping, new exhaust and new air intake system.
I used to race with this guy head to head during our times of study in the UK with stock '00 built Elises in Silverstone. We are at the same driving level which is not perfect but I believe well above average. This guy keeps bugging me to do some M3 vs Elise track time in a local track near Athens, Greece, and he sounds certain that the M3 does not stand a change. I know that he is pulling my leg and I know that it will be a very close match, but before I hit the track I am wondering whether the outcome can be predicted, at least from a theoretical perspective!

Here is what theory suggests:
'00 Elise M3 DCT coupe
Weight 725kg 1600kg
Power 182hp 420hp
Torque 200Nm 407Nm
Weight to Power ratio 3.98kg/hp 3.81kg/hp
Torque to Power ratio 0.276kg/Nm 0.254kg/Nm

I think its gonna be a close match. The Elise has a huge weight advantage which is amplified the shorter the track is (more turns vs straights in proportion) and also the slippier the road surface is. On the other hand BMW has done a brilliant job on suspension, electronics, M-Diff, as well the slight Power to Weight and Torque to Weight advantage, the flatter torque curve and last but not least the DCT, should all help to make the M3 the winner (assuming the track surface is acceptable and the brakes hold tight for a few quick laps).

What's your bet?

[TLud]

Do you know what the track looks like?

[gr8000]

Thats a very relevant question which I was I was sure it would come up...

I will try to find the track profile on the internet and if successful I will post it later on

[gr8000]

Here is the track profile:

[masmole]

On that track in the image, the M3 should be faster hands down assuming having the same skilled driver behind the wheel. The Elise won't be able to make-up any ground in the slower corners that are lost on those straights and faster turns.

On a tighter and more technical track with shorter straights, it might become more of a toss-up. In general, I would think that the M3 will be faster on most tracks, and certainly in all of the GP tracks in this year's F1 calendar, except maybe the street course in Monaco, but even that has a nice long straight going through the tunnel.

Another factor is tires. If the modded Elise means that it also has R-compound tires and added appendages for extra downforce, then of course the Elise would have the edge.

[TLud]

I agree that on that track, the M3 should have the edge. That long straight probably will be too much for the Elise to make up in the corners.

[gr8000]

Originally Posted by masmole

Another factor is tires. If the modded Elise means that it also has R-compound tires and added appendages for extra downforce, then of course the Elise would have the edge.

This is indeed very important on the traction side. In terms of appendages, there aren't any added ones.

On the power side, another point I did not mention is drivetrain losses. The M3 has proportionately more losses due to a more reinforced drivetrain (needed in order to be capable of handling higher loads). I read somewhere that some 16-18% of the engine power is lost between the engine and the wheels. I would assume that the percentage is lower in Elise. So the small power to weight advantage the M3 has may be nulified by the proportionally higher drivetrain losses...

[ChrisFastM3]

M3 FTMFW!!!!!!!!

[gr8000]

anyone else interested to vote on this one?

[icemang17]

Looking at the track you posted....assuming you guys are equal drivers the M3 should win with its far great power....the slight loss in the corners will be more than offset by the probabaly 20mph faster on the straight!

Bottom line is it all comes down to the driver.....on one of my track days my bone stock 316hp 3600lb Porsche 928 caught a Lotus Exige (non supercharged) in the corners and the straights....it was silly, but the Lotus driver was a total noob

[gr8000]

Originally Posted by icemang17

Looking at the track you posted....assuming you guys are equal drivers the M3 should win with its far great power....the slight loss in the corners will be more than offset by the probabaly 20mph faster on the straight!

Bottom line is it all comes down to the driver.....on one of my track days my bone stock 316hp 3600lb Porsche 928 caught a Lotus Exige (non supercharged) in the corners and the straights....it was silly, but the Lotus driver was a total noob

All this sounds very sensible to me. As I have already mentioned in my opening thread, I think that the M3 should come out as the winner, but it seems from what has been written so far that it will also be a comfortable win for the M3 on the specific track (all things being equal, and of course the driver skills).

But what I would be particularly interested to read is the views of these 7 people (so far) that have voted in favour of the Elise. Where do you guys base your judjment?

[consolidated]

Track looks either very short or very wide (over 40' width), around 1.5 miles I would guess, hardly a high HP track, corners look very tight, second gear. Which means the straight is quite short, perhaps not enough to overcome an Elise's higher exit speed...very close race.

[mPlasticDesign]

Originally Posted by consolidated

Track looks either very short or very wide (over 40' width), around 1.5 miles I would guess, hardly a high HP track, corners look very tight, second gear. Which means the straight is quite short, perhaps not enough to overcome an Elise's higher exit speed...very close race.

I totally agree... this is the way I see it...Advatage Elise. I pick Elise also for greater 'fun' factor as well.

Originally Posted by icemang17

Bottom line is it all comes down to the driver.....on one of my track days my bone stock 316hp 3600lb Porsche 928 caught a Lotus Exige (non supercharged) in the corners and the straights....it was silly, but the Lotus driver was a total noob

On the flipside:

[gr8000]

Originally Posted by ///Metak

I totally agree... this is the way I see it...Advatage Elise. I pick Elise also for greater 'fun' factor as well.

Attachment 201206

On the flipside:

i still feel its gonna be an M3 win but probably a very close one...

on the fun factor, I am not so sure... well it also depends on what you define as "fun". Is it high speed lapping with lots of tail fun or precision braking & cornering within absolute limits? for me fun is the former, and the Elise for sure cant beat the M3 on this one as there cant be more fun than having some 360hp at the real wheels with DSC off!!