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11-14-2010, 08:31 PM | #67 | |
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And to throw you off, take a look at this info from a technical BMW document: At zero pressure, a locking pin (2) also holds engine start position.the VANOS unit in the normal position or That means even with no oil in the system, it's locked in its 'normal positon'. So the noise might be from something else . It has pictures, but no pictures of the actual valves, or where they get oil from. This is what I could copy from the document, for your reading pleasure (pics didn't copy) : VANOS The compact double VANOS system fitted to the S65 engine operates at normal oil pressure, unlike the S85 engine (which uses high oil pressure). The low-pressure system means that the high-pressure pump and additional pressure lines and reservoir are unnecessary. This results in a space saving as well as a weight reduction of approx. 8.4 kg. This has been made possible by the considerably stronger switching moments at the camshaft compared to the 10-cylinder and 6-cylinder engine, particularly in the lower engine speed range. The low-pressure system uses these switching moments to adjust the overall gear ratio. The oil is directed to the sealed oil chambers (3 and 4) of the VANOS adjustment unit. When the chambers are pressurized with oil pressure, one chamber allows the camshaft to advance whilst the other chamber allows the camshaft to retard. The VANOS oil pressure is supplied by the engine’s main oil pump. The VANOS oil flow is controlled by one multiway valve for each camshaft. These VANOS multiway valves are controlled by the MSS60 and are directly installed in the cylinder head. 41 - S65B40 VANOS hydraulic motor Index Explanation 1 Optimized hydraulic rotor pressure surfaces 2 Optimized inlet channel oil chamber 1 3 Oil chamber 1 4 Oil chamber 2 5 Optimized inlet channel oil chamber 2 42 - S65B40 VANOS Hydraulic schematic of a cylinder bank Index Explanation 1 Oil supply from the main oil gallery 2 Non-return valves 3 Sieve filter upstream from control valves 4 Hydraulic motor at the inlet and exhaust camshaft 5 Multiway adjustment valves inlet and exhaust side 6 Oil return flange to the oil sump 51 8 As with the S85, the VANOS adjustment unit diameters, and in the rotor surface area.of the inlet camshaft drives the VANOS adjustment unit of the exhaust camshaft by means of a constantly meshed gear. At zero pressure, a locking pin (2) also holds the VANOS unit in the normal position or engine start position. The spiral-wound spring (3) is also used for coordinating the adjustment time between the advance and retard adjustment. In contrast to AG petrol engines, the spiralwound spring for the inlet and exhaust sides is mounted in the opposite working direction, since the camshafts in the S65 rotate in the opposite direction. The principle of action of the hydraulic motor in this M VANOS is based on the VANOS in current BMW petrol engines and is optimized for the S65 in terms of oil supply and drainage |
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11-15-2010, 02:19 AM | #68 |
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11-19-2010, 04:11 AM | #69 |
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My dealer is ordering VANOs check valves now - the first round of fixes didn't work.
Will report back once the work is done (valves coming from Germany)
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12-02-2010, 04:23 AM | #70 |
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Vanos check valves done. Car back today.
Lets see how the cold starts go over the next few days. I'll report back soon.
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12-03-2010, 02:58 AM | #71 |
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Please do. VANOS check valves supposedly don't come into play at start-up according to BMW's own techical file, so curious how they can be a factor. But hope they solved your issue . Looking forward to your evaluation. Take care.
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12-03-2010, 06:29 AM | #72 |
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my car do the same noise in cold start!!! do i have a problem because another 2 friends have the same noise and they said me that it is normal!!!
so what finnaly we do with this noise?? |
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12-03-2010, 08:48 PM | #73 | |
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BTW: so far, so good.
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12-03-2010, 08:49 PM | #74 |
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The immediate noisy VANOS is normal, what is abnormal is the metallic rattle just after the vanos noise....
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12-16-2010, 10:21 AM | #76 |
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in GT5 it's called a 07 M3 :P
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03-28-2011, 11:01 AM | #77 | |
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Any update?
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I have the same startup rattle and it definitely seemed to be lack of oil to the upper part of the engine. If the engine has been stopped for several hours the noise will be present. If the engine has been recently ran, then a restart will not have the noise. Do you have a photo of the check valve(s) and/or their location on the engine? |
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03-28-2011, 06:59 PM | #78 | |
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The new engine is great. Just running it in now....
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05-19-2011, 09:21 AM | #79 | |
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05-19-2011, 09:52 AM | #80 |
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The noise in the first video, doesn't sound like it's a crank speed to me.
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01-10-2012, 06:43 AM | #81 | |
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1st BM
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01-10-2012, 03:17 PM | #83 | |
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NOTE: There is a bit of a light noise on startup with pretty much any VANOS engine - don't confuse this with that. VANOS coming up to pressure noise is normal. So here is how it played out for me. (Could be long...) *** Phase One: I took recordings of my cold engine startups over 2 weeks (bonnet up, iPhone close by, but not in the engine bay). I was able to capture 6 very loud examples of the noise. I emailed these to the service dept (after telling them previously what I was going to do). These sounds ended up at BMW head office and eventually to BMW Germany. Germany was sure it was the crank and crank bearing shells, so they sent a brand new crank and full set of bottom-end bearings. I got a call from the service dept who took my car for a week and pulled the engine out and rebuilt the bottom end. A M mechanic from head office was there to supervise. (Got a M3 vert as a loaner too. Sweet.) Got the car back, sounded great! Then on the 3rd morning, the noise was back. Over the next 4 days I recorded it 4 times. It was almost worse. I rang the dealer, sent in the sound files and they asked for the car back. By this stage BMW was very very interested. They asked if it was OK for the M specialist to take my car home for a few days - I said this was fine. That was a good move because it did it to him - and he was horrified at the sound! *** Phase Two: They called me up to tell me this news to which I replied "Surely it must be time for germany to send a new long block over and just get this sorted." They said they would do all they can, but were unsure what the sound/solution was. They were banking on the crank fixing it. I got a phone call 3 hours later that day to inform me that BMW Germany was express freighting a !!Brand New!! engine for me. 5 days later the engine arrived, it was put into my car. (Germany wanted my engine shipped back untouched - I wonder why...) I had to run it in (1200 miles of painful slowness) and it has since been perfect. No sound, awesome performance, happy man. That is my story. It has been 9 months since that change and it is still great. The BEST thing I did there was take some good quality recordings with date/time stamps over a 2 week period. Germany will be very interested to hear these sound files (send them as .mp3). I was patient and didn't ever lose my cool either. Here is a recording of my sound: http://m-works.co.nz/M3Rattle4.mp3 You can hear the noise just after the engine fires. It was MUCH louder in real life. Insist on a solution.
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01-10-2012, 04:13 PM | #85 | |
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This was posted earlier but, this also sounds like mine: |
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01-10-2012, 08:01 PM | #86 | |
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Get something underway now with your dealer. Ask them to esculate it to BMW Germany and tell them you want an answer and an action plan. Don't let it drag out...
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01-10-2012, 08:08 PM | #87 |
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so is this problem with earlier 08's? I really hope this isn't the beginning of the end.. for what I thought would be a pretty reliable motor.
Although, haven't heard of many complaining of this, just in this thread. |
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01-10-2012, 09:42 PM | #88 | |
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Most people probably wouldn't notice it...
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