Oil Level Sensor Fun

[Polarcharger]

I've changed the oil in other BMWs (you know, the kind with a dipstick) over 50 times with no drama. My first oil change for the E90:

1. Full drain/replace filter
2. Add 8.3 qts.: "Engine oil level below minimum. Add 1 quart!"
3. Add 0.5 qts. (total 8.8 qts.): "Engine oil level below minimum. Add 1 quart!"
4. Add 0.25 qts. (total 9.05 qts.): Green - 3/4 bar
5. Add 0.25 qts. (total 9.3 qts.): Green - 3/4 bar
6. Add 0.25 qts. (total 9.55 qs.): "Engine oil level too high!..."
7. Drain 0.55 qts. (total 9.0 qts.): "Engine oil level too high!..."
8. Drain another 0.25 qts. (total 8.75 qts.) "Engine oil level too high!..."
9. Drain another 0.25 qts. (total 8.5 qts.): "Engine oil level too high!..."
10. Drain another 0.25 qts. (total 8.25 qts.): "Engine oil level too high!..."
11. Return six hours later and test without change (8.25 qts.): Green - 1/4 bar
12. Add .25 qts. (total 8.5 qts.): Afraid to check.

All tests on level car (same location).

Did I mention that it takes 20 minutes to get oil up to measuring temperature when ambient is < 50 degrees fahrenheit (provided you're not running air through the oil cooler by actually driving)?

"Joy" is way down my list of emotions. P-cars have dipsticks - right?

[drey]

I feel your pain, man - there is no substitute for a dipstick, period.

Believe it or not, there are a few on this board who will argue that the 'e-stick' is superior because it's idiotproof. Well, IMHO, the idiots in this case are the BMW engineers.

[Krozi]

Not having a Dipstick is just stupid....

[MysticBlue]

Originally Posted by Polarcharger

1. Full drain/replace filter
2. Add 8.3 qts.: "Engine oil level below minimum. Add 1 quart!"
3. Add 0.5 qts. (total 8.8 qts.): "Engine oil level below minimum. Add 1 quart!"
4. Add 0.25 qts. (total 9.05 qts.): Green - 3/4 bar
5. Add 0.25 qts. (total 9.3 qts.): Green - 3/4 bar
6. Add 0.25 qts. (total 9.55 qs.): "Engine oil level too high!..."
7. Drain 0.55 qts. (total 9.0 qts.): "Engine oil level too high!..."
8. Drain another 0.25 qts. (total 8.75 qts.) "Engine oil level too high!..."
9. Drain another 0.25 qts. (total 8.5 qts.): "Engine oil level too high!..."
10. Drain another 0.25 qts. (total 8.25 qts.): "Engine oil level too high!..."
11. Return six hours later and test without change (8.25 qts.): Green - 1/4 bar
12. Add .25 qts. (total 8.5 qts.): Afraid to check.

All tests on level car (same location).

Here's mine...
1. Full drain (both plugs) and replace filter.
2. Add 8.8 liters. Not 8.7 liters. Not 8.9 liters. 8.8 liters.
3. That's it.
Next time I drove it, level indicated top bar, just like it did before I changed it and just like it has since then.
I'm in no way defending the lack of dipstick. I agree with everyone else, it's just pointless and stupid that there isn't a dipstick.
I'm just saying if you drain it all the way (let it drain for awhile to make sure you got it all), you should put in exactly 8.8 liters.
(Liters, not quarts).

[skierman64]

Sorry to go OT: Polar, when are you going to get an E30M3 to round out the fleet? I thought I was bad by having an E36M and an E92M

[Polarcharger]

Originally Posted by skierman64

Sorry to go OT: Polar, when are you going to get an E30M3 to round out the fleet? I thought I was bad by having an E36M and an E92M

Maybe someday. Perhaps I should replace the E90 with an E30 so I can change the oil without excessive grief.

[elh0102]

With all respect to the OP and others, if you add 9.5 quarts of oil, knowing that the drain is never going to be complete, an overfill should not be a surprise. If you add 8 quarts or so, drive it a bit to full operating temperature, you can then get a sufficiently accurate reading to complete the job. With 8 quarts added, the engine is going to have plenty of oil for lubrication and acceptable temperature under normal conditions.

[bbob]

wow, this sounds more like some crazy science experiment than just changing the oil haha

brings back memories of doing titration experiments in chemistry... ahh, the good ol' times...

[MysticBlue]

Originally Posted by elh0102

With all respect to the OP and others, if you add 9.5 quarts of oil, knowing that the drain is never going to be complete, an overfill should not be a surprise. If you add 8 quarts or so, drive it a bit to full operating temperature, you can then get a sufficiently accurate reading to complete the job. With 8 quarts added, the engine is going to have plenty of oil for lubrication and acceptable temperature under normal conditions.

I wouldn't recommend doing it this way. Theoreticaly, it sounds good... get most of what you need in there then add a little bit at at time until you're where you want to be. Problem is the gyrations you have to go through to get a reading, and it seems the reading is not very reliable under these conditions. It's much simpler if you just put 8.8 liters in the first time. No more. No less. From hearing these stories from DIYer's and from dealers, it seems that you are not necessarily going to get an accurate indication after you have topped off a little bit... at least not at first. This makes this method a little iffy, as the OP found out. Trust me... the capacity is 8.8 liters. The bottles are marked in thenths on one side, so it's pretty easy to get it right. I've done it twice and had no problems either time. Just make sure you opened both drain plugs, car is level, and you let it drain long enough that you let it all get out of there so you know it is completely drained before you put the 8.8 liters in.

[elh0102]

Originally Posted by MysticBlue

I wouldn't recommend doing it this way. Theoreticaly, it sounds good... get most of what you need in there then add a little bit at at time until you're where you want to be. Problem is the gyrations you have to go through to get a reading, and it seems the reading is not very reliable under these conditions. It's much simpler if you just put 8.8 liters in the first time. No more. No less. From hearing these stories from DIYer's and from dealers, it seems that you are not necessarily going to get an accurate indication after you have topped off a little bit... at least not at first. This makes this method a little iffy, as the OP found out. Trust me... the capacity is 8.8 liters. The bottles are marked in thenths on one side, so it's pretty easy to get it right. I've done it twice and had no problems either time. Just make sure you opened both drain plugs, car is level, and you let it drain long enough that you let it all get out of there so you know it is completely drained before you put the 8.8 liters in.

Whatever works for you is always your best choice. What I have noticed over the years, regardless of how techniques are described, folks just don't do things the same way, including something as simple as draining oil. The electronic measurement is accurate, after you learn to work with it. If you add some and take an immediate reading, overfilling will result almost every time, as was discovered here. With most cars, I measure the oil I have drained before refilling, which removes all guesswork, assuming you know your starting point.

[BobsM3Coupe]

Originally Posted by elh0102

Whatever works for you is always your best choice. What I have noticed over the years, regardless of how techniques are described, folks just don't do things the same way, including something as simple as draining oil. The electronic measurement is accurate, after you learn to work with it. If you add some and take an immediate reading, overfilling will result almost every time, as was discovered here. With most cars, I measure the oil I have drained before refilling, which removes all guesswork, assuming you know your starting point.

Don't forget, the old oil filter can hold quite a bit of oil.

[elh0102]

Originally Posted by BobsM3Coupe

Don't forget, the old oil filter can hold quite a bit of oil.

Right. I allow a small fudge factor for what's in the filter. But my goal is to not overfill. I'd rather add a little over a few days than have to drain some out. No need to be anal about getting it absolutely full. These cars will do fine running a quart low until you get it full.

[mrkbbd]

May I ask why you're changing your own oil when it's included in the maintenance plan of the car? Do you do it more frequently, or just hate your dealer?

[MysticBlue]

Originally Posted by BobsM3Coupe

Don't forget, the old oil filter can hold quite a bit of oil.

Yes, 8.8 liters includes changing the filter. If you don't change the filter, 8.4 liters.

[MysticBlue]

Originally Posted by mrkbbd

May I ask why you're changing your own oil when it's included in the maintenance plan of the car? Do you do it more frequently, or just hate your dealer?

I own my car, may keep it longer than 4 years, and occasionally track and autoX. 15k is too long in between changes under those conditions, in my opinion. I let them do the free ones, I just do at least one extra one in between. And no I don't hate my dealer, I've never had a problem with them.
If I was leasing and turning it in after 2 or 3 years I wouldn't bother.

[Polarcharger]

Thanks for all the input. Note I did drain simultaneously from both plugs for 40 minutes - immediately after oil reached operating temperature. Filter and "o"/crush rings were replaced. All measurements were taken while car was level.

I've since added another 300 mL (up to 8.8L) and the on-board reading hasn't moved from 1/4 (1/3?) green bar (driven to operating temperature twice).

I'm now entertained by the fact that I've spent more time on one oil change than on any six previously - and am discussing oil changing "technique". I must be archaic, but I've done about everything that can be done on an E36 (and several other cars) and never thought I'd be writing about changing oil.

FWIW BMW North America, my next car will have a dipstick.

[dexx]

Are you guys changing the oil hot or cold?

[Polarcharger]

Originally Posted by mrkbbd

May I ask why you're changing your own oil when it's included in the maintenance plan of the car? Do you do it more frequently, or just hate your dealer?

15K mile oil change intervals does not equal a maintenance plan. The BMW definition of a maintenance plan has made the value of BMW pre-owned cars decline rapidly. Folks don't want cars that aren't maintained, and the BMW "plan" is next to worthless.

If you really want an earful about BMW "no maintenance", check the E36 and E46 M3 forums. Note the E30 guys actually had a real plan back in the day (and BMW cars of that era held their values).

Rant over.

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by elh0102

With all respect to the OP and others, if you add 9.5 quarts of oil, knowing that the drain is never going to be complete, an overfill should not be a surprise. If you add 8 quarts or so, drive it a bit to full operating temperature, you can then get a sufficiently accurate reading to complete the job. With 8 quarts added, the engine is going to have plenty of oil for lubrication and acceptable temperature under normal conditions.

This is my plan. I haven't changed mine, yet, but the plan is to underfill it and drive around for a while for everything to normalize. I am not worried in the slightest about running with "only" 7.5 - 8.0 liters of new oil in there for 20 miles.

I'm in the 7500 mile change interval club as well. Mine is a lease.




BTW, I'm planning to run a 50/50 mix of Redline 0W-40 wt and 30 wt race oil for the winter. Can anyone give a REAL technical reason why this would be a bad idea. It will come out as soon as temps get back over 45 degrees and I'm certain the oil won't see temps higher than 200 degrees during the winter. I'm expecting significant reductions in friction and know I'll have more than enough detergent for a new engine to go less than 7k miles.

[dexx]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

This is my plan. I haven't changed mine, yet, but the plan is to underfill it and drive around for a while for everything to normalize. I am not worried in the slightest about running with "only" 7.5 - 8.0 liters of new oil in there for 20 miles.

I'm in the 7500 mile change interval club as well. Mine is a lease.




BTW, I'm planning to run a 50/50 mix of Redline 0W-40 wt and 30 wt race oil for the winter. Can anyone give a REAL technical reason why this would be a bad idea. It will come out as soon as temps get back over 45 degrees and I'm certain the oil won't see temps higher than 200 degrees during the winter. I'm expecting significant reductions in friction and know I'll have more than enough detergent for a new engine to go less than 7k miles.

Bearing loads at 8400 RPM.

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by dexx

Bearing loads at 8400 RPM.

You mean the same bearing loads that crapped out so many S54 engines with the 10W-60 TWS in them?

Are any racing teams running 10W-60 TWS? They spend a lot more time than I do at 8400 rpm; with oil temps closer to 250 degrees.

I'm just saying that I can't see running 10W-60 during the winter.

[checkmate]

Classic case of german overengineering..seems like the BMW engineer's need to come up with something new for their performance balance scorecard every year. Sad!