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      12-12-2010, 02:20 PM   #45
48Laws
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Firstly, ///M is a Division of BMW that tunes. M is not a car per se. Just like people who thought the STI was a car. It's not. Subaru Technica Internatonal tuned an Impreza. If you look at all of the ///M tuned vehicles, they all perform. Even the 3 ton X6M performs. 0-60 in 4.5!!!!! That's not a Tell tale sign a tuning division is losing its way, in my opinion. Whatever the market calls for, a company must satisfy it. Just because you'll see ///M bits on non-M cars isn't really a big deal. It's performance branding. That's all. If Lamborghini can build an SUV in the 80's and still stay true to its performance DNA, certainly BMW can, too. As far as the 1M goes... It does what it's supposed to do. Perhaps this will be a design study for a greater vehicle in the near future? Let's just wait it out and see before we throw our hands up in disgust.
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      12-12-2010, 02:35 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
All BMW really did was change the headers/downpipes a little, turned the boost up, and slapped an M badge on it.
Well, the headers were changed enough to have a patent on them, so it can't be that little. Also, the S63 uses a different turbo layout of two twin-scroll turbos and not only an increased boost.


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      12-12-2010, 02:50 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 48Laws View Post
Firstly, ///M is a Division of BMW that tunes. M is not a car per se. Just like people who thought the STI was a car. It's not. Subaru Technica Internatonal tuned an Impreza. If you look at all of the ///M tuned vehicles, they all perform. Even the 3 ton X6M performs. 0-60 in 4.5!!!!! That's not a Tell tale sign a tuning division is losing its way, in my opinion. Whatever the market calls for, a company must satisfy it. Just because you'll see ///M bits on non-M cars isn't really a big deal. It's performance branding. That's all. If Lamborghini can build an SUV in the 80's and still stay true to its performance DNA, certainly BMW can, too. As far as the 1M goes... It does what it's supposed to do. Perhaps this will be a design study for a greater vehicle in the near future? Let's just wait it out and see before we throw our hands up in disgust.
So the E92 M3 was a 20% tuned model? Please see pg 9.

While I won't dispute your point that BMW is approaching the market differently than in the past, it is still too early to tell whether M Division will become a mundane tuning house. Once we see what the next M3 has in the way of unique constituent parts, we will definitively know. However, at this point, I think a lot of the "smart money" would bet that the almighty currency did what no competitor could do; get BMW to create widespread discontent among its most ardent followers.
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      12-12-2010, 02:54 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by wrh3 View Post
Unfortunately, enthusiasts don't make up the large percentage of buyers so they may not even miss our money.
4 out of 5 1-series owners thought their car was front wheel drive is an indicator of the demographic:
http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/03/24/bm...-think-its-fwd

Very true. Businesses seem to make the same mistake that other businesses have made; taking a relatively small loyal support base for granted. Do the businesses not realize that it was that base which does much of the company's advertising? FREE! Oh well, someone else will see the void created by BMW's shift in direction and offer products to the spurned fans. Hope springs eternal.
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      12-12-2010, 04:25 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Well, the headers were changed enough to have a patent on them, so it can't be that little. Also, the S63 uses a different turbo layout of two twin-scroll turbos and not only an increased boost.


Best regards,
south
I know what you mean South, but it's still just a different downpipe/header that takes exhaust pulses from either bank to lessen turbo lag. It'll definitely get a patent since no one else has the turbo's IN THE "V" of the motor. IMO, it's just not a true M engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 48Laws View Post
Firstly, ///M is a Division of BMW that tunes. M is not a car per se. Just like people who thought the STI was a car. It's not. Subaru Technica Internatonal tuned an Impreza. If you look at all of the ///M tuned vehicles, they all perform. Even the 3 ton X6M performs. 0-60 in 4.5!!!!! That's not a Tell tale sign a tuning division is losing its way, in my opinion. Whatever the market calls for, a company must satisfy it. Just because you'll see ///M bits on non-M cars isn't really a big deal. It's performance branding. That's all. If Lamborghini can build an SUV in the 80's and still stay true to its performance DNA, certainly BMW can, too. As far as the 1M goes... It does what it's supposed to do. Perhaps this will be a design study for a greater vehicle in the near future? Let's just wait it out and see before we throw our hands up in disgust.
You do not understand the concept of what an M car use to be. It's not about 0-60 times. The cars are suppose to be relatively light; you can't make up for lightness with horsepower when it comes to handling.
And Lambo didn't turn the Gallardo into a 4 door sedan, AND they do have the Superleggara line, which is what the M line is SUPPOSE to be.

The bottom line is, they dropped a regular engine in to the 1 series and called it an M. THAT'S NOT AN M IN MY BOOK.
Kay Segler needs to go away.
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      12-12-2010, 04:32 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1 View Post
Agreed. These guys have completely lost their way and I'm mad about it!!

I'm with a lot of folks here. This 1M would be in my garage next year if it had a real M engine and not the lame N54. I don't miss my 335 since I have an E46 M3, a real M car. 6000 rpms, yuck. This is a HUGE disappointment.

The last BMW I'll probably buy is an e90 M3 for my wife, the last genuine M from what was a great car company.

I hate to leave BMW but they won't get any more of my money as long as they head in this direction. I guess the ultimate driving machine has given way to luxo joy. Leave fuel economy wars for the rest the line. I hope BMW reads these boards and misses our money enough to listen to their customers.
Couldn't agree more. It's a sad thing - they really had something special going for a while.

I'm going to hold on to my E46 for dear life.
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      12-12-2010, 04:40 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrh3 View Post
Unfortunately, enthusiasts don't make up the large percentage of buyers so they may not even miss our money.

4 out of 5 1-series owners thought their car was front wheel drive is an indicator of the demographic:

http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/03/24/bm...-think-its-fwd

When M division began rebadging SUVs, the writing was on the wall- M is no longer anything special
.
very true. x5m x6m to be honest.. m division kind of lost its way..hope they fix the endless problem with the n54, otherwise 1 m owner kind of get screwed. i was a n54 owner myself. the car brings me a lot of fun,love the low end power and torque, but at the same time i spent a lot of times going through high pressure fuel pumps(4 in totals), bad injectors(2 times) causing tons of misfires(countless) ,turbo wastegate rattles, engine overheat( oil cooler problems).for a car that was about 2,3year old, that was really disappointed. hope m division at least fix some of those problems, just so 1m owner can at least have some fun on the track without having to worry about their fuel pump went out in the middle of a high speed turn.
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      12-12-2010, 05:04 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
I know what you mean South, but it's still just a different downpipe/header that takes exhaust pulses from either bank to lessen turbo lag. It'll definitely get a patent since no one else has the turbo's IN THE "V" of the motor. IMO, it's just not a true M engine.
Fair enough.


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      12-12-2010, 05:06 PM   #53
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Pretty good discussion going over in the Z4 section which I'd thought I'd also transplant some ideas from here...I thought I'd see what thoughts folks had on this (and I'll offer mine to start with)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eccentric View Post
Ok so lets play with this scenario: What if the 1M got an M-exclusive engine that was turbocharged? Would you guys be opposed to it if the redline was the same, and it didnt run out of gas before revlimiter?
I'd certainly entertain this idea. The 1M is a move in the right direction--smaller, lighter, great suspension, LSD, room enough in back for my dog. I just don't care for the engine--I want to see something that has the same performance dynamics as the S engine line.

Variable geometry turbos might provide a means to this end. These give the turbo the ability to act as a small fast-spooling turbo and a huge turbo all in one package (great low and top end performance). Assuming the price point for these has dropped (or will drop) these would provide a large amount of the performance dynamics we want to keep.

The higher-end turbo solution would essentially be an "S" version of the motor. This would set apart the S engine in terms of turbo technology and provide something a simple tune could not match. For BMW, the same basic engine could be an M or not an M thereby providing some nice economies. These little gems sit in the current Porsche turbo, require no wastegates, and have other advantages as well. Might they find there way into the next series M car as the new "S" engine's defining characteristic?

Assuming the heat soak (limp) and HPFP DFI woes are addressed, this would be a nice little package.
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      12-12-2010, 05:53 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip View Post
The fact that an M engine is turbocharged is the problem.
Your premise is incorrect... this is no M engine, only the sticker is.
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      12-12-2010, 06:33 PM   #55
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Seems to me like AMG and ///M division are about to switch places. BMW has always had superb chassis tuning and good engines. AMG has had engines of varying quality and dubious chassis dynamics. Now it seems that AMG is building nothing but monster engines and their chassis tuning is making leaps forward with each generation.
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      12-12-2010, 06:42 PM   #56
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This car is either a piss por attempt at a m car or if it is a good m car then it shows how good they made the 135i.

Either way I will be keeping the 135i as it is much faster than my m3 in every aspect and I have no desire to pay a heck of a lot more than my 135i for some badges just to mod it.

IMO it is a total fail and the only reason it will sell is becuase few know about a jb4/v5. Imagine if people test drove a 135i with a simple tune and coils and then drove a 1m...
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      12-12-2010, 10:44 PM   #57
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Since this is an M3 forum, please continue 1M discussions over in the 1M forum - http://www.1addicts.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=307

Thank you.

That is the reason for closing this thread.
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