My Gintani SC M3 Track Day w/ no water in cooler!

[TheKosherStogie]

A few weeks ago I went to dinner with a friend on a rainy night. Pulled into parking lot and as i pulled into my space I pulled in to far and the bumper went over parking block, as a result of my looking at the e46 m3 in charcoal next to me, my favorite color. So i backed up, hear a bunch of grinding ect...I shreek and get out to look. My left fender cracked ?! ... realized the parking block pulled so hard on the bottom of the bumper it cause it to press on the fender and cracked it. SUCKS! and bottom of bumper was pulled out a bit.

Two days later was the Streets of Willow Track day i went to... drove the hell out of the car... did 5 sessions on the track ... hit redline line/limiter multiple times. Just a fun track day. Car temps were normal the whole time. Car ran perfect.

A few days later went to do some 60-130 runs... was at gas station to fill up with 2 friends. Went to check water level in cooler... and it was empty... thought "oh crap" ...so went to fill it... wasn't filling...look down and water is streaming down the floor from under the car. So I take the car to Gintani had Alex take a look. Well the night i messed up bumper i had tore a hose or something, im not too technical so dont know exactly... but caused all the water from the cooler to drain.

So Alex had it fixed by the next day...but I just thought what a testament to the quality and tuning of the Gintani Supercharger this was! A full track day with no water in there...and the car never got hot or had any issues or knocking. I believe that says alot!

I would like to say something as well about the guys at gintani. ( cause i see all the drama on the forums, so would like to say my 2 cents)
My father raised me on the premise of "all a man has is his word." To never lie, cheat or steal... and to live honestly with good morals. I try to only associate with people of these values. I consider myself a good judge of character...and Alex is a guy i trust and know doesn't b.s. or lie. He is a very honorable guy and thats why i will always recommend him to anyone and everyone. Both Alex and his brother Arno run a honorable business, and they have taken care of me as a customer. Regardless if I contacted them with question about my car or others, even when it had nothing to do with them or their shop and there was no profit for them, they would be more than happy to help. It is people like this I like to associate myself with and consider more than just business people, they are genuine, quality people. And i will say it is a rare thing to know guys like this. I would put myself and my word on the line for those guys. .

They make great products that speak for themselves. They do straight and honest business.

[mixja]

Interesting - did they mention they specifically tune such that if the IATs are high they appropriately adjust fuel and timing? I think PG once said the factory ECU has no IAT compensation maps in place (which I find somewhat strange). I've seen posts from ESS mentioning how they have protection measures in place so I'm guessing Gintani (or rather Powerchip?) have done the same...

Hopefully you'll be OK - I bet your EGTs would have gotten pretty high and prolonged high EGTs can cause excessive wear and piston damage (picture melting).

[KiokenM3]

wow lucky you didnt damage your car

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

top notch tunning!

[ScheerSpeed]

how could the temp be fine if there was no water in the radiator? the temp gauge needs water in order to get a reading...

[FStop7]

Originally Posted by ScheerSpeed

how could the temp be fine if there was no water in the radiator? the temp gauge needs water in order to get a reading...

I don't think he's talking about the radiator. He's talking about the air to water intercooler for the supercharger.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by ScheerSpeed

how could the temp be fine if there was no water in the radiator? the temp gauge needs water in order to get a reading...

He is referring to the charge cooler for the supercharger, not the engine radiator.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

He is referring the charge cooler for the supercharger, not the engine radiator.

Okay, that makes more sense, wonder why he didn't just say that?

Not that it really matters, since the car was never in any danger of overheating anyway...

Sammy probably doesn't understand the real reason why his car didn't shutdown.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Okay, that makes more sense, wonder why he didn't just say that?

Not that it really matters, since the car was never in any danger of overheating anyway...

Sammy probably doesn't understand the real reason why his car didn't shutdown.

"Went to check water level in cooler" is what he posted Bro, agreed not totally specific, however if the engine rad had leaked completely, then the car would have shut down long before the track day. He's only running around 5psi, so it makes sense.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

"Went to check water level in cooler" is what he posted Bro, agreed not totally specific, however if the engine rad had leaked completely, then the car would have shut down long before the track day. He's only running around 5psi, so it makes sense.

Yea, that's what I meant by Sammy not understanding why his car didn't shutdown a few weeks ago.

5psi of boost is not a big deal in regards to generating heat this time of year.

Drew, the ESS Stg. I supercharger kit runs 4.5 psi WITHOUT any intercooling whatsoever. (standard production kit)

The cooling system on the E9x M3 is a lot better than the system we had on the E46 M3. It was a neccessity to make a lot of upgrades to the E46 M3 to keep the engine cool.

As long as your IAT's are lower than 120-130 degrees, there is no reason to worry. With the ambient air temps that Sammy was running in socal a few weeks back, it doesn't matter if the cooler was functioning properly or not.

If the car would have heated up to anything close to the dangerous level, the ECU would have pulled some timing to protect itself.

When it's 50-65 degrees outside, your IAT's are not going to be a problem when you are only running low boost. (as opposed to the IAT's when it's 100-110 degrees in the summer)

Sammy's car wasn't going to overheat regardless given the atmospheric conditions.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Yea, that's what I meant by Sammy not understanding why his car didn't shutdown a few weeks ago.

5psi of boost is not a big deal in regards to generating heat this time of year.

Drew, the ESS Stg. I supercharger kit runs 4.5 psi WITHOUT any intercooling whatsoever. (standard production kit)

The cooling system on the E9x M3 is a lot better than the system we had on the E46 M3. It was a neccessity to make a lot of upgrades to the E46 M3 to keep the engine cool.

As long as your IAT's are lower than 120-130 degrees, there is no reason to worry. With the ambient air temps that Sammy was running in socal a few weeks back, it doesn't matter if the cooler was functioning properly or not.

If the car would have heated up to anything close to the dangerous level, the ECU would have pulled some timing to protect itself.

When it's 50-65 degrees outside, your IAT's are not going to be a problem when you are only running low boost. (as opposed to the IAT's when it's 100-110 degrees in the summer)

Sammy's car wasn't going to overheat regardless given the atmospheric conditions.

Well in track situations the car is pushed much harder, so I think him sharing this experience says something about the kit's hardware, tuning, etc. Good point, I was going to reference ESS's non-intercooled system as well, but I was trying to keep the tuner politics out of it.

[Bob MG]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

, but I was trying to keep the tuner politics out of it.

not likely!!

[powertrip]

Yeah, god forbid that another tuner besides ESS has reliable FI vehicles on the road .

Originally Posted by Bob MG

not likely!!

[TheKosherStogie]

i try to stay out of all the bs'ing... all i try to do is post what goes on with my car...then people can hopefully see thru all the crap talking and lies that circulate and make a decision for themselves.

[Bob MG]

Originally Posted by powertrip

Yeah, god forbid that another tuner besides ESS has reliable FI vehicles on the road .

I didn't mean it like that
just that comments pitting up Gintani and ESS camps against each other are so predictable. They are both great, I went ESS but I for one love reading these banter threads

[MspiredM3]

Very nice Sammy, that is impressive that you had absolutely no heating issues under track conditions!

[powertrip]

Sorry bro, I didn't mean it toward you. I just meant that the thread would most likely come under attack because the review was on a Gintani product. I personally like both company's products .

In addition, I really like Sam's posts because he tries to be as unbiased as possible .

Originally Posted by Bob MG

I didn't mean it like that
just that comments pitting up Gintani and ESS camps against each other. I went ESS and I for one love reading these banter threads

[Bob MG]

Originally Posted by powertrip

Sorry bro, I didn't mean it toward you. I just meant that the thread would most likely come under attack because the review was on a Gintani product. I personally like both company's products .

In addition, I really like Sam's posts because he tries to be as unbiased as possible .

me to, both great products. Sam your car was the first thread I saw of a FI M3. Impressive!

And good to see Alex take care of you so well!

[mixja]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Yea, that's what I meant by Sammy not understanding why his car didn't shutdown a few weeks ago.

5psi of boost is not a big deal in regards to generating heat this time of year.

Drew, the ESS Stg. I supercharger kit runs 4.5 psi WITHOUT any intercooling whatsoever. (standard production kit)

The cooling system on the E9x M3 is a lot better than the system we had on the E46 M3. It was a neccessity to make a lot of upgrades to the E46 M3 to keep the engine cool.

As long as your IAT's are lower than 120-130 degrees, there is no reason to worry. With the ambient air temps that Sammy was running in socal a few weeks back, it doesn't matter if the cooler was functioning properly or not.

If the car would have heated up to anything close to the dangerous level, the ECU would have pulled some timing to protect itself.

When it's 50-65 degrees outside, your IAT's are not going to be a problem when you are only running low boost. (as opposed to the IAT's when it's 100-110 degrees in the summer)

Sammy's car wasn't going to overheat regardless given the atmospheric conditions.

I think ESS posted up somewhere there Stage I non-intercooled system runs like 195 F IATs (cannot recall the ambient temperature).

I melted pistons on the track with no recorded knock running IATs of around 160F, running 11:1 AFRs. The reason was my EGTs were running at 950C for about two minutes before the pistons melted. This was a Subaru STI with silicon cast pistons running about 15PSI boost at high RPMs (with a not very good V-Mount Intercooler setup). Timing was being pulled back significantly because of the high IATs, but the EGTs still were just too high (note oil temperatures never went higher than 120C)

Granted different cars and engines, but hope this serves as a word of warning for anybody thinking non-intercooled setups (whether intentional or not in this case) are going to be reliable on the track.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by mixja

I think ESS posted up somewhere there Stage I non-intercooled system runs like 195 F IATs (cannot recall the ambient temperature).

I melted pistons on the track with no recorded knock running IATs of around 160F, running 11:1 AFRs. The reason was my EGTs were running at 950C for about two minutes before the pistons melted. This was a Subaru STI with silicon cast pistons running about 15PSI boost at high RPMs (with a not very good V-Mount Intercooler setup). Timing was being pulled back significantly because of the high IATs, but the EGTs still were just too high (note oil temperatures never went higher than 120C)

Granted different cars and engines, but hope this serves as a word of warning for anybody thinking non-intercooled setups (whether intentional or not in this case) are going to be reliable on the track.

Great info!

[Alex@Alpine]

I was there that track day, did notice the damage on Sammy's fender, car was pushed for hours, chunks of brake dust all over his wheels, car was pushed really hard and held up, didn't know you was running with out your cooler, def some props

[niterider]

Originally Posted by mixja

I think ESS posted up somewhere there Stage I non-intercooled system runs like 195 F IATs (cannot recall the ambient temperature).

I melted pistons on the track with no recorded knock running IATs of around 160F, running 11:1 AFRs. The reason was my EGTs were running at 950C for about two minutes before the pistons melted. This was a Subaru STI with silicon cast pistons running about 15PSI boost at high RPMs (with a not very good V-Mount Intercooler setup). Timing was being pulled back significantly because of the high IATs, but the EGTs still were just too high (note oil temperatures never went higher than 120C)

Granted different cars and engines, but hope this serves as a word of warning for anybody thinking non-intercooled setups (whether intentional or not in this case) are going to be reliable on the track.

+1 I personally would not run an FI system with no kind of added cooling, Ive seen way too many engines go kaboom cause of heating prob. specially on FI applications.