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      11-12-2007, 10:42 PM   #1
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Exclamation What's the Issue?

In response to the thread entitled "A cynic's view into the M3's crystal ball of flames" I have to say there is a problem, but not only the M3. Addressing the first issue: performance, it seems to me that the standard BMW's seem to hold their own and fend off competition very well... but the M cars on the otherhand. Even the pioneering M5 cuts it sooooo close to the competition its not even funny, same with the M6 and now the M3. Why though? Here is my theory, BMW spends alot on R&D for all of its cars but on the M cars they spend twice as long designing (7 years average) the latest M3 was being designed almost as soon as the E46 went on sale. I think that all that marvelous chassis, handling, balance, feedback and other stuff sort of becomes limp wristed when the power just isnt there and thats what is afflicting the M cars. The new M3 ought to have had 430HP and 301-320 FTLBS of torque, that would easily have pushed it into Ferrari territory, and the steering: put in the more mechanical system for more feel. Other than steering feel and thrust and maybe weight is there anything wrong with the M3? not according to the various magazines and owners that have reported theire toughts. Every magazine Road and Track, Car and Driver, Motortrend, and even the highly over critical Automobile Mag said "among its competition its still the drivers car here". So isnt that what we all wanted? for our beloved to be better than the competition? Second issue sales I dont understand why M cars are slow selling these days but hey Mercedes dealers are packed with unsold AMG's and Audi packed with un wanted S, RS's. I think BMW should make the M cars more custom order... meaning that there arent just a bunch of demo's sittin on the lot. I guess the market (for AMG and RS and even M) is starting to go stale. What do you guys think the problem is ?

Oh also to consider... the CSL, lets hope BMW learns some lessions from the standard car and fixes them for the big dog version. This will for sure determine if BMW really have their hearts in the right place.
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      11-12-2007, 11:48 PM   #2
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Problem? I don't see a problem. BMW promised us a great new M3 and the US launch date can't come any sooner. Instead of agonizing over conjecture and other internet blathering on whether or not this will be the M3 we all expect it to be, I'm going to hold judgement until I've actually spent a few weeks in the driver's seat commuting to work as well as doing laps the track. If it doesn't turn out to be the car I expected it to be, then it will be traded for something else. No drama now, no drama expected later. That is the small price you pay for trusting BMW and being the guinea pig for a new model release. If there is a problem, it only lies with the few who would rather not be the guinea pigs, yet want answers now by fabricating virtual facts out of conjecture.
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      11-12-2007, 11:59 PM   #3
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I agree with your summary
Yes, I think the M3 is what we all wanted it to be, generally speaking. It has been more well-liked than the direct competition. Called the "drivers car" of the bunch. (Motor Trend "scalpel")
With that being said, the reports of poor steering feel are not to be taken lightly(no pun intended), but there are mixed reviews so we can't make a conclusion, not to mention its an opinion we must decide for ourselves.
The report of dusty M3's is completely unfounded. Not that it may not come true, but we can't call it a fact yet. If it does happen, maybe it is a result of a price that is set too high for the market. Could be poor judgement or maybe BMW is forced to set a higher price in the US because of a weakening dollar (which has not been hedged perfectly). However, it still costs less than the RS4 and C63.
Regarding what you have said about all M models failing to drastically dominate the competition these days- IMO, that would simply suggest that the other major players have stepped up their game (which it seems they have; C63 "best handling AMG", RS4 well-liked).
In a capitalistic society, this can only be expected. Audi/Benz are not gonna let BMW trounce them year after year. We as consumers, benefit from this competition in the form of further innovation and lower prices (the beauty of capitalism). If there was no competition vs. the M3, BMW could charge outlandish prices and be lazy with R&D.

Overall, the M3 is shaping up to be the leader in its class (again).
I think most people have mild concerns over the steering, and would like to hear more reviews and DRIVE it.(myself included)

I don't see a "issue" tho. Of course it would be sweeter if the M3 had no steering complaints, weighed 3200lbs, and had 450hp, but, again- how can we expect BMW to somehow magically dominate competitors by such a wide margin over and over. Its an unrealistic expectation. The only reason this car somehow has a twinge of 'disappointment' is because everyone set the bar ridiculously high.
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      11-13-2007, 12:36 AM   #4
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well this is why I ask "what's the issue" I personally would only change the front fascia, the steering and the power/torque(very slightly) otherwise I am in love with the E92. Chi-town man I'm just waitin on the 7-speed to put my order in, u planning on joining the Chicago chapter of the BMW club?
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      11-13-2007, 12:39 AM   #5
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The M3 has never been a power car. If you want more power, get a M5. Or if you want still more, then you have Ferrari or you can take it upon yourself to tune a car up to your own liking. But the M3 has never been about raw power and drag performance. Plus, don't forget that it is still 1/4-1/2 luxury car. Putting too much power into it would definitely mean making sacrifices that would probably hurt their sales in the specific target market.

Also, the hp/torque numbers follow a bit of a different philosophy I believe than normal conventional cars. The torque may be a bit lower but the more important and probably more impressive thing that is often overlooked is that said torque is there from around 2K RPM until 8.4K. The power is there all the time.
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      11-13-2007, 06:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
The M3 has never been a power car.
People need to remember this when questioning the M3's power. If all you are looking for is peak hp/torque numbers, go get an AMG. It's about more than just numbers. Why do you think the M3 has been winning reviews against the C63 and RS4? Both of which have higher hp/torque numbers.
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      11-13-2007, 10:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagobimmerboy View Post
well this is why I ask "what's the issue" I personally would only change the front fascia, the steering and the power/torque(very slightly) otherwise I am in love with the E92. Chi-town man I'm just waitin on the 7-speed to put my order in, u planning on joining the Chicago chapter of the BMW club?
I'm right with you on your changes.

And I will join the Chicago chapter as soon as my paycheck allows. I am very young so I will need a yr or two, and considering used.

DCT should be the sh*t!
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      11-13-2007, 04:06 PM   #8
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No, the M3 has never been a power car, but then it's never been this soft a drivers car (in relative terms), either. It's just a few 1000 enthusiasts won't sustain the M3 line and BMW know that. CSL is where it's at.
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      11-13-2007, 04:09 PM   #9
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I am going to join as soon as I have a Bimmer, being 18 and living at home while going to college I dont really have the money or the energy to work for a car and wind up spending all my money on it. My dad used to have an E60 but that lasted only a few months, (he's a muscle car guy). So about 4 years or so I'll invest in an E92 (what ever I can find). I bet cha that if the M3 follows the same trend in sales as the M5-6 when its sold here I can pick one up pretty easily
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      11-13-2007, 04:13 PM   #10
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I think the M3 falls in the same place where it has for the last two generations. There are just more competitors. The M3 never was the end all beat all sports car and it still isnt. But, its probably one of the best for the money and that is about as good a compliment as any.

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      11-13-2007, 08:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagobimmerboy View Post
In response to the thread entitled "A cynic's view into the M3's crystal ball of flames" I have to say there is a problem, but not only the M3. Addressing the first issue: performance, it seems to me that the standard BMW's seem to hold their own and fend off competition very well... but the M cars on the otherhand. Even the pioneering M5 cuts it sooooo close to the competition its not even funny, same with the M6 and now the M3. Why though? Here is my theory, BMW spends alot on R&D for all of its cars but on the M cars they spend twice as long designing (7 years average) the latest M3 was being designed almost as soon as the E46 went on sale. I think that all that marvelous chassis, handling, balance, feedback and other stuff sort of becomes limp wristed when the power just isnt there and thats what is afflicting the M cars. The new M3 ought to have had 430HP and 301-320 FTLBS of torque, that would easily have pushed it into Ferrari territory, and the steering: put in the more mechanical system for more feel. Other than steering feel and thrust and maybe weight is there anything wrong with the M3? not according to the various magazines and owners that have reported theire toughts. Every magazine Road and Track, Car and Driver, Motortrend, and even the highly over critical Automobile Mag said "among its competition its still the drivers car here". So isnt that what we all wanted? for our beloved to be better than the competition? Second issue sales I dont understand why M cars are slow selling these days but hey Mercedes dealers are packed with unsold AMG's and Audi packed with un wanted S, RS's. I think BMW should make the M cars more custom order... meaning that there arent just a bunch of demo's sittin on the lot. I guess the market (for AMG and RS and even M) is starting to go stale. What do you guys think the problem is ?

Oh also to consider... the CSL, lets hope BMW learns some lessions from the standard car and fixes them for the big dog version. This will for sure determine if BMW really have their hearts in the right place.

You need to remember the lineage of M cars.... the M3 in particular has gone from a homologation special to a car where BMW wants sell 100,000 units.

They will have the CSL to address the people who want the race car experience.

The new M3 is the best M3 yet. Other than the C63 out accelerating it in a straight line, the M3 beats the C63 and the RS4 in every other performance metric.
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