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02-27-2011, 02:13 AM | #23 | |
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02-27-2011, 02:23 AM | #25 | |
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Are you one of those guys who calls a DCT an automatic... Have you driven the M-DCT (or better yet driven it extensively)? It does not feel perform or act anything like a traditional slush box.
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02-27-2011, 02:42 AM | #26 |
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I am willing to bet a large sum of money that the next M3 won't have a TT V6. BMW has done some things that are questionable in the last few years however I don't think they are going to abandon inline sixes for V sixes now or down the road. They make the best inline sixes in the world, I am quite sure they are going to stay with what they know.
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02-27-2011, 02:48 AM | #27 | |
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If the new M don't satisfy, I am sure Porsche will still be making a 911 with an NA power plant that will satisfy. |
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02-27-2011, 06:21 AM | #28 | |
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I drove a twin clutch tranny for 2 years...I agree it is far from a slushbox but nothing beats the control you have over a car with a clutch pedal. Or the fun of throwing a lever with a nice mechanical feel. If they could come up with a way of having a selectable neutral in between gears I may think about getting one again.
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02-27-2011, 08:39 AM | #29 | |
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It won't be a V6 on the M3 F32, but can be on the next one, if the world hasn't yet come to an end. A V6 should be at 60° but the M5's V8 is at 90°. Also, it looks like the next Aston Martin Vantage may get a Turbo 2.5l I6 engine, and the next Virage a Turbo 5.0l V12, two inline sixes put together. The V6 compactness is nice for Audi, but for BMW is has less advantages. If compactness is important, there is then nothing better than a small V8, but the M3 won't get this. |
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02-27-2011, 10:41 AM | #30 |
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If, and that's a big IF, BMW has a need to put a six cylinder in any of the upcoming FWD cars (including Mini), I can see them justifying the need for a V6. But I just don't see why they would want a V6 in a FWD car, since the whole point of that class is to have a smaller, more space efficient and fuel efficient model, so I'd think they will be limited to 3 and 4 cylinder engines.
And as far as pedestrian crash regulations, they've already managed to get the I6 to work with the F10 5er, and the F32 3er, without making them look horrendous (at least the F10 5er, since I haven't seen a clear pic of the F32). So, I'd bet that there's no V6 in the near future. What I do wonder is how Porsche has managed to wring out 400+ HP from a naturally aspirated flat 6, along with good torque figures, and have done so reliably, yet BMW has chosen to drop that from the equation. I truly feel that if it's strictly the MPGs they are worried about, then a lighter chassis (by about 300 lbs), is key, and they can go to a 3.5 L I-6 naturally aspirated that puts out 420 hp or so, and have a car that's as quick as the E9X M3, but more fuel efficient. However, I think they would lose the war on paper with MB and Audi, as their numbers would look better, despite the fact that a 3300 lbs M3 with a 420 hp I-6 would be one smooth and agile handling car. |
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02-27-2011, 11:20 AM | #31 | |
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Besides even if the new m3 has a manual (which it won't) it still won't make up for it being the size of an 80's 7 series with a curb weight of a 90's 5 series and the steering feel of a early 2000's Merc.
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02-27-2011, 12:00 PM | #32 |
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Yes but who's to say a V6 couldn't be part of a new strategy of more economical turbo engines? BMW simply cannot continue to produce vehicles with average fuel economy in the teens (including and especially M cars). The fact BMW released the X5 M rated at 17 mpg hwy is mind boggling.
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02-27-2011, 01:01 PM | #33 |
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Well when you can charge $100k for what is essentially a $50k car with a 7 series engine and a different intake manifold it makes sense financially.
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02-27-2011, 02:29 PM | #34 | |
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Are you really that pessimistic about the next gen M3?
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02-27-2011, 03:33 PM | #35 | |
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I'm not against the tech, I'm against buying a 4000lb ipad that has a secondary function of transportation.
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02-27-2011, 04:23 PM | #36 | |
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02-27-2011, 04:25 PM | #37 | |
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and ill say it again, if they use the n55 and turn it into the s55 or w/e, then the new m3s price should reflect that. but because ///Marketing is so greedy, of course they are going to charge the same price or more. |
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02-28-2011, 09:19 AM | #38 |
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Just watch the F10 M5 for a good predictor. That too will use an engine based on the on from the series car - in that case an S63 V8 derived from the N63 V8 used in the 5, 6, 7 and X5. Smart money says there will be a price increase from the E60 M5, and I expect it to be fairly significant. Figure $95k as a starting price, at least.
As for the V6 for the next M3 - there's one big problem that makes that unlikely. That is, it will cost a heck of a lot more to develop a new V6 block than to simply use the I6 block they already have. If and when BMW changes to a V6 architecture for their standard engine someday in the future then, and only then, will the M3 get a V6. In fact, for the same reason ($$$), the M3 would also not retain the I6 should the corporate 6 move to a V layout. By and large, BMW is doing eveything they can to consolidate engine design and parts sharing because they are now spending so much of the powertrain budget on making cleaner more efficient engines. |
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02-28-2011, 09:58 AM | #39 | |
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02-28-2011, 10:34 AM | #40 | |
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I have been preaching this for 2 years. The sooner you stop making the association of redlines higher than 7000 rpm with M cars, the less disappointed you will be. Just an advice. Quote:
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02-28-2011, 11:06 AM | #41 | |
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To be fair, if adjusted properly, it's a really terrific automatic - although BMW can't seem to tune out the last of the low-speed glitches. |
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02-28-2011, 02:51 PM | #42 | |
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McLaren MP4-12C Ferrari 458 Italia Ferrari 599 GTO Nissan GT-R Bugati Veyron Many of those are quite serious drivers cars.
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02-28-2011, 03:11 PM | #43 | |
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Perhaps you can explain the essential difference between pulling a paddle and pushing a lever and pulling a lever at the same time? Wow those things are REALLY different... I have no glitches in my DCT. Sure it shifts a bit slow and clutching can be odd when cold (even here in CA). Other than that with the latest software it pretty darn well flawless. Also - it does not take any "adjustment" period.
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02-28-2011, 03:31 PM | #44 | |
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I can't think of one new technology that makes BMW's better to drive than before. More convenient yes, but not more smile inducing.
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