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      03-03-2012, 10:30 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
Well, to be fair, I haven't been to Iran.... but I have been to Israel and I wager that they treat their citizens better.

And I agree, any religious radicals in power are scary as f@ck, and I'm not a fan of the current party in power. But Israel has a democratic system, free press (and very critical at times), and free speech. Iran... not so much.

I respect your opinion regarding how diplomacy should be handled with Iran, and I think we both agree that a military strike would be devastating for the region. However, I do believe that Iran should not be allowed to have a nuclear weapon.
I don't believe Iran should have a nuclear weapon as much as I don't think Israel should have a nuclear weapon.

That said, it'd be "almost" impossible for us to prevent them from obtaining a nuke which I wouldn't doubt they are working on, as this would be a deterrent from being invaded and occupied like the two countries that are bordering Iran.

However, make no mistake, they will obtain a nuke if there weren't a campaign that was short of a full blown occupation ala Iraq. Considering Iran has a much more capable military at 4X the size of Iraq with some decent AA weapons sourced from Russia, our casualties would easily surpass both Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Furthermore, from a moral standpoint (unlike that bigot retarded racist OldArmy who hates brown people), I'd hate to have the finger pointed at me as my country is directly responsible for anywhere between 1/2 a million to 1.5 million deaths alone in Iraq, where these numbers would be at least replicated again in Iran.

All this largely due to a belligerent Israeli government (Likud) whom has a hard on for stopping Iran and has taken an active terrorist campaign in the murder of Iranian scientists. Iran is NO threat to the US, which should be all that matters. Furthermore, the former heads of the Mossad also implicate the same that even if Iran obtained a Nuke, Israel would be fine.

I don't want to see anymore blood spilled between both our countrymen and Iranian residents, especially for some other country.

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      03-04-2012, 02:58 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
Well, to be fair, I haven't been to Iran.... but I have been to Israel and I wager that they treat their citizens better.

And I agree, any religious radicals in power are scary as f@ck, and I'm not a fan of the current party in power. But Israel has a democratic system, free press (and very critical at times), and free speech. Iran... not so much.

I respect your opinion regarding how diplomacy should be handled with Iran, and I think we both agree that a military strike would be devastating for the region. However, I do believe that Iran should not be allowed to have a nuclear weapon.
As far as people in Iran having freedom of speech I am with you on this one. Most people know that freedom of speech in most countries in the middle-east is pretty much non-existent but because they don't have freedom of speech does not mean that they should not be entitled to Nuclear Power. Currently I have not see Iran attacking any of its neighbors in any wars but I have seen Israel Launch attacks on its neighbors. Also, Iran is a member of the NPT while Israel,India and Pakistan are not so why signal Iran out to be the bad guy

They should keep an eye on members and non-members to be fair. At the moment I see Iran allowing inspectors to enter and inspect sites in Iran and they have been for years while inspectors are forbidden from entering and inspecting in Israel so what gives . You must understand and be fair what is viewed as a threat to one side is also viewed as a threat to another. From the Iranian point of view they have a neighboring enemy constantly threatening to attack them which has nuclear arms so from the Iranian point of view that same neighbor is the same neighbor that helped lead to war and invasion against Iraq because they presented falsified documents and information to the UN which lead the invasion of Iraq. Last and not least because Iraq did not have a proper military and deterrent to deter their enemy they were easily invaded and occupied by a foreign enemy. That is the same neighbor that voted for the Iraqi invasion and war against Iraq so the way I see it from a neutral point of view is that Iran does have a right to worry just as well as Israel does.

Look at what happened to Palestine and Gaza, they lost all the gas fields which are now taken by Israel off the Gaza coast. This is also because they did not have the proper military defense to deter an enemy. Iran has every reason to worry. Did Israel offer to allow Palestine to develop and get the income from the Gas field off the Gaza coast The Israelis are not exactly fair you know

I know that Iran is no angel but only a fool would believe that Israel is an innocent victim just trying defend its self.
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      03-04-2012, 11:32 AM   #69
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I actually totally agree with you on all of these points. There is no question that Israel committed war crimes (Lebanon is just one example of many), and the way they treat the Palestinians is atrocious.

But Iran religious regime is way more extreme than the current government in Israel. More importantly, the government in Israel can be changed with an election, it is a democratic free country. The radical regime in Iran will never change unless the people rise up; which they tried to do (last year), but got no support from the western world.

In short (and again) - Iran going nuclear is one scary thought. However, the latest CIA report suggest that they are *not* even close of having a bomb.

In the middle-east most of the countries require nuclear energy and if I am not mistaken many countries have it and use it. If you make bad use of it and attack someone with a Nuclear bomb then there is not one nation in the world that would be on your side. I honestly really doubt that Iran would use a nuclear bomb to just bomb Israel. They would kill every Palestinian there,take out Jerusalem and turn every supporting country overseas against them. They would really have to be really stupid to do such a thing. I honestly do not believe that they will develop a nuclear bomb just to attack Israel though they may want a nuclear bomb to deter a country like Israel which constantly threaten to attack them and that honestly is in Iran's right to do so. In the US people buy and carry guns in their homes to deter thieves from entering.

Do I like Iran's policies or their Government? The answer is no. Do I support how they treat their own people? The answer is no. Do I support their non-Democratic system? The answer is no but reasons like this do not give others the right to attack or invade Iran and nor does it mean that a country like Iran should not be allowed Nuclear Energy.

I know that the government of Iran consists of religious extremists but this is not just the case in Iran but Israel as well. You can Google the branches of the Israeli government and you can see that their people are pretty much all religious extremists as well. You can also see by looking at their Flag that they are religious extremists. Any country that has a religion placed on their flag is a non-Democratic country but a country made of religious extremists because that country is based on that religion.

Pakistan as an example is one.


Israel is another..


In a true Democratic country the government is neutral with no particular religious views and the government laws and Holidays are not based on a particular religion.
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      03-04-2012, 11:50 AM   #70
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If people are patient, Iran will have a revolution. But I think, we really need to focus on the Israel Palestine issue first, this is a sore subject for most arabs and the muslim world and the biggest drive of propaganda and terrorist groups.
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      03-06-2012, 02:37 AM   #71
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US shielding Israel is like China and Russia shielding Syria.

http://news.yahoo.com/stop-shielding...153544498.html

This statement shows hypocrisy and bigotry.

Israel fears Iran is seeking to develop nuclear weapons, although Tehran insists its nuclear plans are peaceful.


Iran has just as much of a reason to fear Israel because Israel has nuclear weapons though it insists its nuclear plans are peaceful yet it is threatening to attack Iran

For his part, Mr Netanyahu said: "I believe that's why you appreciate, Mr President, that Israel must reserve the right to defend itself." He went on to add that Israel must remain "the master of its fate".


The fact that Israel must reserve the right to defend its self is perfectly fine and acceptable but if Israel reserves the right to be able to defend its self then Iran should also have the right to be able defends its self and also as Netanyahu says "Be the master of its fate". What applies to one must also apply to the other neighboring neighbors.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17260083
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      03-06-2012, 05:40 AM   #72
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^ It's called double-standards.

I'll tell you something else. Why do Israel/America/UK always talk about Iran possibly having weapons on a daily basis? They mention the "threat" which such frequency to brainwash people. I bet if you ask random people about Iran they will mention weapons despite there is no proof of such weapons. They are simply putting fear in peoples minds.

As I have told you before Iran will not launch a random attack on Israel. If you actually think for a second you cannot imagine it happening. That's why they keep talking about this threat. When you talk about things so often it almost makes them seem real.
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      03-06-2012, 05:50 AM   #73
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17268478

Look at this from yesterday. Netanyahu is warning us that time is running out to stop Iran. "A nuclear armed Iran must be stopped." I don't whether to laugh or cry at this statement. This is much worse than the Iraq situtation. With Iraq they said they had proof of WMD and went to these lengths:



Now with Iran they admit they don't even have "proof" of weapons or even proof they are developing weapons! Why can't people see the same tricks being used again? We talk about conspiracy theories. The real conspiracy theories are the ones our governments feed us everyday. This pisses me off so much. We hear people talking about the threat from Iran everyday. What threat? Iran has NO plans to bomb Israel.

I'll tell you something funny too. I bet if Israel launched a pre-emptive strike on Iran and Iran retaliated it would be Iran everyone would condemn.
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      03-06-2012, 06:25 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17268478

Look at this from yesterday. Netanyahu is warning us that time is running out to stop Iran. "A nuclear armed Iran must be stopped." I don't whether to laugh or cry at this statement. This is much worse than the Iraq situtation. With Iraq they said they had proof of WMD and went to these lengths:



Now with Iran they admit they don't even have "proof" of weapons or even proof they are developing weapons! Why can't people see the same tricks being used again? We talk about conspiracy theories. The real conspiracy theories are the ones our governments feed us everyday. This pisses me off so much. We hear people talking about the threat from Iran everyday. What threat? Iran has NO plans to bomb Israel.

I'll tell you something funny too. I bet if Israel launched a pre-emptive strike on Iran and Iran retaliated it would be Iran everyone would condemn.
With Iraq Israel provided the UN with falsified documents about Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction all of which turned out to be false. You must ask yourself though that one must really wonder when Israel says that they worry about peace in the middle-east due to Iran when for all these years they have not been able to strike a peace deal with Palestine

What Obama should be talking to Netanyahu about is illegally occupied territories in Palestine and the peace process between the Palestinians and Israel but instead he wants to please the people over at AIPAC so he can win his re-election.

Would be nice if the Palestinian leader was given the same opportunity to be able to walk up in US Congress/White House and address the Americans in the same way Netanyahu does. He addresses the Americans via the American media as if he was the President of the United States. How often do you see a foreign leader in the White House or Congress addressing Americans via American Media in this same way??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17268478




Last edited by stylinexpat; 03-06-2012 at 07:00 AM.
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      03-09-2012, 07:53 AM   #75
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This person seems to think they are rational and this person was a former Israeli Intelligence Chief.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/re...231418280.html
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      03-11-2012, 09:04 AM   #76
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This is one example of the double-standards I have been talking about. A report today of a "rogue" U.S. troop in Afghanistan who killed at least 16 civilians. He went into homes and killed women and children. See here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17330205

Now, had this been a Muslim he would have been labelled a terrorist, but because it is a U.S. troop we are talking about him suffering from a breakdown; possibly even post-traumatic stress disorder. Make no mistake, his behaviour also amounts to terrorism if you were to look at its literal meaning and not the recent interpretation where terrorist = crazy arab muslim with a bomb.

I know there are people out there that will be so quick to sympathise with him. Maybe he lost a friend, maybe he's suffering from PTSD. Yet if a Muslim did this perhaps as an outcry against Israeli occupation or killings it would never be "justified". It would always be terrorism.
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      03-26-2012, 09:19 PM   #77
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I wonder what they want to hide?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17510668

Sounds hypocritical when they want the UN to investigate and pursue Iran while they now won't allow any party from the UN into Israel to investigate their crimes. This shows and proves how unreasonable they are and also shows that they do have something to hide from others seeing and finding out.
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      03-27-2012, 04:28 AM   #78
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^^ Don't expect that to receive much attention. It's Israel. Had than been Iran we would be all over it. Remember this?



and lets not forget:

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