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05-26-2009, 11:51 AM | #309 | |
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Nothing as ugly as the CTS-V will ever crack 8 minutes () |
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05-26-2009, 11:52 AM | #310 | |
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With all that being said, I'm wondering how much difference that makes. Do you think a pro (or very experienced) driver would have done such a bad first lap and then improve more than 25 seconds? I don't think so. Like I said some time ago, Sportauto Supertest is also an indicator of a car's handling since they only do 3 or so laps. So in my opinion it all depends on the time they actually achieve. In case it's in the ballpark of 7:50 we can rest this case and everybody's sports car world will be back at normal. In case it's a low 7:40 or a high 7:30 we can go on discussing about driver skills, experience and minor modifications...What do you think? Best regards, south
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05-26-2009, 12:01 PM | #311 |
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The only way to sort it is to get the original ring porsche driver in a GT3 and the GT-R 7.29 driver and get them to do a couple of laps one after the other in a car pulled randomly from a dealers showroom.
I suspect neither manufacturer would do it. Having someone used to a Porsche do the times in the GT-R or visa-versa will not show the quickest times no matter what. The cars are COMPLETELY different drives and demand totally different styles of driving and while the GT-R will prove faster from the box in the hands of a novice it will take longer to retrain the brain for a pro I think. Knowing where to keep the foot in and let the car sort things out in the GT-R will be down to experience with the car. All suspicions of course as I'm not a pro. Not even a prostitute in fact. |
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05-26-2009, 01:25 PM | #312 |
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South,
Any professional won't improve by a margin of 25secs, such an improvement would take months and months testing non stop. I do think that they would be able to lower that first time if it was their first experience in the car by at least a minimum of 5 or 6 seconds wouldn't you think. Then add to that reduction a further 5 secs for the pit straight and you end up with a lap of 7:41. Now add a further 5 secs for the Dunlops and you end up with a 7:36 for Andy. Now things are starting to sound very plausible. I don't know what Horst will achieve but like Andy I do think the GTR requires a rethink on how you approach a corner and how capable you believe it is, which I might add is probably more than everyone outside of the Nissan's test team give it credit for. |
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05-26-2009, 02:05 PM | #313 | |
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Best regards, south
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05-26-2009, 02:36 PM | #314 | |
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05-26-2009, 03:10 PM | #315 | |
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How about we see what Horst achieves. I have a feeling it will be 7:50ish, that's my faith |
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05-26-2009, 04:34 PM | #316 | |
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Well if Horst achieves anything with a fifty something in it's number then my opinion of Horst as an accomplished driver was greatly over-rated. When Andy can achieve a 7:51 (7:45 adjusted for pit straight) in a car he had never driven before and did only one hot lap then Horst needs to return at least a 7:40 bare minimum to be regarded anything above averagely good considering that he has driven the car more than once. So to answer your earlier comment, yes you should admire my faith because I have been right on so many occasions when discussing the GTR and I feel I'm on a roll. |
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05-26-2009, 05:10 PM | #317 | |
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05-26-2009, 05:37 PM | #318 | |
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Oh and yes I do know how much experience Horst has around the ring, that is why I do regard him as an accomplished driver but if he doesn't return the time I'm suggesting given everything that we now know about Andy's time, well then in the GTR at least Horst won't have lived up to expectations on my part. Even South understands my reasoning and agrees, I bet Awamp and some others will too. |
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05-26-2009, 06:50 PM | #319 | ||
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Let the GTR in the hands of HvS establish the benchmark. Don't set the benchmark a priori and question the test if the benchmark you "feel" to be right is not achieved.
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05-27-2009, 02:34 AM | #320 | ||
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05-27-2009, 10:10 AM | #321 | ||
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05-27-2009, 10:37 AM | #322 | |
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They are mods that anyone can do to their car without any hassle. Again I say that setting up the M button to have everything set full (suspension, throttle, traction) on the M3 is exactly the same but easier to do. Would you do a track day without setting the edc, traction and throttle to suit the track in question. As long as it's not something being added to the car that is not on the showroom model then it's completely acceptable to do. You don't try tracking a car with everything set soft on any car that allows you to alter it. It's still a showroom stock car. How does this thread compare to others? What's the longest a thread has gone on for? |
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05-27-2009, 10:42 AM | #323 | ||
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Remember that it's logical that Andy should be easily able to drop this time be a further 5+ seconds with a bit of seat time and the steering wheel of the right side for him. Quote:
My suggestion is that Horst needs to be able to get under 7:45 at the very least based on Andy's efforts. If you feel that anything above that is showing Horst at his best then your expectations about his abilities are totally different to my own. |
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05-27-2009, 04:42 PM | #324 | ||
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Logical to you, maybe, because you're once again in the position of making excuses for the GT-R's weak (relative to Nissan's claims) showing. It is pretty telling that when you subtract 6 seconds for the pit straight, Andy's time for the 997.2 GT3 is within 3 seconds of Porsche's claim. It's abundantly clear which manufacturer is telling the truth about their car's performance, and which one is stretching it beyond the point of believability.
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05-27-2009, 04:57 PM | #325 | |
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Showroom stock for an M3 is throttle at least aggressive, shocks at softest and steering at lightest. Showroom stock for a GT-R is for road driving. My point was that making adjustments that are available on a showroom stock car is not cheating. It's using available features. The fact that it requires more physical effort to actually do it doesn't change the fact that it's available to everyone with the car. |
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05-28-2009, 03:28 AM | #326 | |
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It isn't rocket science. Now I am quite confident with what I know about driving and the cars I have driven on the track that given more time, and not much I may add, that Andy should be able to reduce his time by a further 5 seconds which would take his estimated time to a 7:40, that's still 11 seconds off what Nissan achieved but starting to approach the point where possibility that given the talents of Suzuki and his unrivalled knowledge of the car could possibly give him (plus numerous laps) over anyone else. So in my humble opinion I realistically think that when someone gets to within roughly 7~8 seconds of the 7:29 lap in a similarly stock GTR then in my opinion Nissan has been telling the truth and all those doubters were very quick to point fingers. 7:37 is D-Day in my opinion. |
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05-28-2009, 10:09 AM | #327 |
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7:38
Horst von Saurma has just achieved this time within the last few days and it will be in the next SportAuto magazine next month. Once again my estimates of what should be achievable based on Andy's time is right on the money and only 1 second slower than I believe should vindicate the times that Nissan/Suzuki achieved last year. As I said, I am on a roll. Back to you Garissimo. |
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05-28-2009, 10:11 AM | #328 | |
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Best regards, south
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05-28-2009, 10:25 AM | #330 | |
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Best regards, south
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