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01-04-2008, 01:55 PM | #67 | |
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Today: FSI Kudos to Audi for inventing such a great system. Best regards, south |
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01-04-2008, 02:29 PM | #68 |
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I remember BMW saying they have worked with DI and it wasn't up to spec for high rpm applications yet. I am sure BMW could have thrown it into their engines and seen less than stellar results, ie RS4, just to lay claim to being "ahead" of others.
Just because a company comes out with something first doesn't necessarily mean they are ahead of the curve. I am sure many manufactures withold releasing an improvement if it doesn't meet their in-house specs. Perhaps Audi's level of achievement isn't as high as BMW, with regard to gains. How do you know that BMW couldn't have put their version of DI into their engines and seen similiar small gains?
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01-04-2008, 04:35 PM | #69 | |
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@E: One enormous part of the equation of who is ahead is IMO who releases it first. You guys should all know I like M>>S, RS, etc. but they still make great cars and in some ways are ahead of BMW. DSG is the other example. M-DCT is probably going to be better than DSG, is it better that they "waited" (or developed more) a bit. However this only means they are more conservative, not ahead. Audi's DSG system is by the way good enough to be hailed as a revolutionary transmission. M-DCT will be polish on Audi's (Borg Warner's...) innovation. Seems to be a theme with Audi vs. BMW Audi was first with AWD, DGI, DSG, etc. then BMW comes a bit (or by choice much) later and likely better. I'm sure there are many other examples from those who have followed the history of each brand better than I. |
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01-04-2008, 05:30 PM | #71 |
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Totally agree....the 2 key areas where Audi is ahead is:
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01-04-2008, 05:35 PM | #72 |
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Art, T. Excellent points, in the end what we are all after is performance and thrills. Here BMW is the clear leader.
That is why I get accused now and again of being a BMW fanboy because I have so many great things to say about BMW and not nearly as much about so many other brands. I know you don't want to sift through all my posts, but I'll freely admit to being a huge M fan, advocate, debater, etc. Porsche and Audi are examples worthy of quite some praise as well though, JMHO. As an (ex/recovering...) engineer myself, I certainly appreciate technology, both technology for technologies sake but more importantly the proper application of technology to meet the market and business requirements, that is typically harder and much more rewarding. My point was simply that on some technologies (not the entire package for overall performance) Audi is ahead. Cheers. |
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01-04-2008, 06:05 PM | #73 |
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I was semi-joking
Audi makes some nice machines... old RS6 RS4 R8 but I'm biased, I do believe BMW is only surpassed by Porsche in the engineering of HiPo machines...discounting the excess, Lambo, Ferrari, etc. but a well driven M car can hold it's own with almost anything |
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01-04-2008, 06:30 PM | #74 | |
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Porsche, however, is sometimes frustratingly evolutionary and dogmatic about their approach, such as holding back the Cayman so it does not eclipse the 911. Given that, at the end of the day, a company's success has much to do with its profits, their approach is obviously working. I just think they are missing an opportunity to build a Club Sport Cayman that has 355 HP, costs the same as a 911S yet is a more focused performer.
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01-05-2008, 02:41 AM | #75 | ||
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Porsche?? Give any company 30-40 years to perfect a flat-6 and they will do just as well (what they discovered water cooling in 1999??? Bah). I love Porsche.....but where the heck is the DSG for the 911's?? They are too busy making stupid SUVs and monsterous sedans.
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01-07-2008, 02:50 AM | #76 |
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Back to the discussion about HP/liter, DI, etc, BMW went "balls out" on the M5's V10 in terms of HP/liter (for a such a large engine), and torque/liter. Although the M3's V8 seems to eclipse the V10 in the HP/liter category many believe that the M5's engine is making more like 520 HP (based upon its stellar performance figures for a >2 ton machine) so they may both be about equal there.
However, the M5's torque curve is FAR from flat. It rises dramatically at around 6000 and thus its peak torque is pretty impressive, esp. compared to the M3's. In achieving this top-end performance BMW sacrificed both low end and mid-range torque(where is makes much less than its old 5 liter V8 in the previous M5) and FUEL ECONOMY. Although you'd think folks who can afford a $80K+ sedan would not care about the poor fuel economy, I know M5 owners complain about the lack of range when they average 12 MPG (EPA 11/17) in normal driving. With a 16 gallon tank many can't even go 200 miles before needing to fill up. I think BMW was aware of this and chose to provide the M3 with a more usable torque curve and make it a more fuel efficient powerplant. We can leave the gas-guzzling, high-end torque curve to the CSL.
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01-07-2008, 02:57 AM | #77 | |
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There is more room in the V10 - like 80 hp more room. You shouldn't confuse M5 / M6 owners kidding about fuel economy.....it is an inside joke, almost a badge of pride. The biggest complaint from the M5 / M6 guys is the size of the fuel tank. If they put a 90 or 100 liter tank, everyone is happy. I am still on the side that BMW made the wrong compromise in delivering a flat torque curve instead of giving more power in the high rev part of the engine.
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01-07-2008, 06:35 AM | #78 |
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Interesting way of expressing one's pride.
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01-07-2008, 11:52 AM | #79 |
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I wish I had a button that dumps raw fuel into the exhaust so I can shoot out flames. Hopefully, there will be a Prius behind me
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01-07-2008, 12:49 PM | #80 |
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01-07-2008, 06:19 PM | #81 | |
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Actually I heard BMW will offer 2 packages: ZSJ = Scram Jet ZAH = Anti-Hippie Package which allows you to dump fuel into the exhaust for 10 foot flames if the rear sensor detects Toyota Prius
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01-08-2008, 02:18 AM | #82 |
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Dude you are killing me. I wish I was half as funny as you are, seriously. I am fairly green leaning and consider the environment a priority yet I still will likely drive and M3 and I still love your humor.
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01-08-2008, 03:33 AM | #83 |
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Why not just do it properly?
All Prius owners should be subjected to this: |
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01-08-2008, 06:43 AM | #84 |
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Don't get all sweet on him yet. Tbone uses the same joke in multiple threads until he gets a laugh out of it.
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01-08-2008, 11:44 AM | #85 | |
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From 2009: Cost per day to enter central London in an M3: £25.00 Cost per day to enter central London in a Prius: £- And if you have one of those funny little electric cars, you can park wherever you like for free too. |
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01-08-2008, 07:52 PM | #87 | |
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01-08-2008, 09:55 PM | #88 |
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