Tips for buying first gun?

[NYC6]

Not saying I would have pulled the pistol the moment he touched the door the first time but he certainly would have at least heard, "WTF do you think you're doing!".
Any conversation about helping them would have ended there and then would have been told, "Get off my lawn" ala Clint Eastwood. If that didnt work lining up the sights on a forehead, would have.
Understand the quickly unfolding situation point though.

[justinnum1]

Originally Posted by NYC6

Not saying I would have pulled the pistol the moment he touched the door the first time but he certainly would have at least heard, "WTF do you think you're doing!".
Any conversation about helping them would have ended there and then would have been told, "Get off my lawn" ala Clint Eastwood. If that didnt work lining up the sights on a forehead, would have.
Understand the quickly unfolding situation point though.

lol, yea, someone getting a red dot on them, they would get the point.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by Draven

All the while, the police have heard this conversation and I've given them my address as if they're AAA. The first guy finally catches on to what the second guy was saying, and they walk away from my house and down the street. 2 minutes later, a cruiser shows up at my house. I detail my experience exactly like I've done here. I tell them I know it's technically illegal to brandish a firearm but that I felt threatened and it neutralized the situation before the guy came through the door. The officer said that I was right, it was illegal but given the circumstances he understood and wouldn't cite me if the people didn't press charges. FWIW, he and another cruiser searched my entire area and didn't find a broken down car or the two guys I described. I'm the only house without a dog and I live alone so they probably had cased my neighborhood and thought I'd be an easy mark.

You can't open carry inside your house in your state? Easy argument against brandishing if you can.

Originally Posted by NYC6

You handled it a little different than me. The first time he tried to open the door would have been it. Conversation ends there.

In FL the second they tried to open the door themselves without being invited to you are justified in using deadly force, regardless if they made any threats. It's an attempt at forceful entry. Just operating an unlocked door latch is considered forceful by common law.


Only times I can think of a weapon would have been helpful is: two very large, slightly aggressive rottweilers charged up to me and my gf with their hackles up, luckily they sniffed for a bit and left. Guy was pissed because I used a turning lane to pass him because he had been driving for miles under the speed limit right next to another car on a two lane, turn lane was loooooong and I didn't cut him off or anything, regardless he still ran up to my car at the light and tried to open the door yelling and screaming. Still wouldn't have used force though because could be considered the aggressor. Walked past a bum downtown and he said I had a pretty girlfriend and that he was going to take her from me, getting up and doing one of those stupid lunge in place things (threat plus outward intent to carry out).

[Draven]

Originally Posted by O-cha

You can't open carry inside your house in your state? Easy argument against brandishing if you can.

In NH, there is no castle doctrine today. We just had a case where a woman was tresspassing against a guy's property, he told her to leave, she didn't and continued to argue with him... He then produced a handgun at his side and told her to leave again. She did, called the police... HE was arrested, sentenced to 3 years... He was pardoned but at 'Time Served' and since he's a convicted felon, cannot possess firearms.

I didn't want to be the second example of that in my state, and I decided not to push it.

Originally Posted by O-cha

In FL the second they tried to open the door themselves without being invited to you are justified in using deadly force, regardless if they made any threats. It's an attempt at forceful entry. Just operating an unlocked door latch is considered forceful by common law.

NH is rather liberal about a lot of things, but their self defense laws aren't one of them. However, they just passed a new law though that says that anyone who has a right to be somewhere legally has the right to stand their ground. Our law used to say that you had to attempt to retreat if it was safe before using deadly force, even in your own HOME. Now, if I'm confronted with violence, I don't have to prove that retreating was either impossible or attempted before I defend myself.

Originally Posted by O-cha

Only times I can think of a weapon would have been helpful is: two very large, slightly aggressive rottweilers charged up to me and my gf with their hackles up, luckily they sniffed for a bit and left. Guy was pissed because I used a turning lane to pass him because he had been driving for miles under the speed limit right next to another car on a two lane, turn lane was loooooong and I didn't cut him off or anything, regardless he still ran up to my car at the light and tried to open the door yelling and screaming. Still wouldn't have used force though because could be considered the aggressor. Walked past a bum downtown and he said I had a pretty girlfriend and that he was going to take her from me, getting up and doing one of those stupid lunge in place things (threat plus outward intent to carry out).

He's a bum, and you have the girlfriend (PICS?). I'd of just reminded him of that and kept walking.

[Templar]

Not a weapon story, but while I was deployed I left my dog with my parents so someone I knew was taking care of him. One night while my dad was out working, some jackass came to the door pretending to be from the cable company in our area (they didn't have cable at the time) and wanted to sell my mom some stuff. She told him she wasn't interested and that she was happy with her satellite service. The guy got unusually agressive she said, all the while she was trying to hold the dogs back because they were initially just curious. He said, "Well if you let me in we can go over your options." She said, "No+, I said I'm not interested." The dogs must have realized she was getting anxious and scared, because they started to growl at the guy but the moron didn't pick up on it. He said, "Look, I'm trying to make a sale and I promise it'll only take a minute of your time." He then put his hand on the door. She backed up, locked the screen door, and said, "If you don't get the fuck out of here I'm letting the dogs out." At this point, they were both going ballistic, foaming at the mouth and barking. They aren't scary dogs (an Irish and English Setter), but they are both pretty large (mine is about 85 lbs and the other is about 65). He got the hint and ran off, literally. She called the cable company, asked if they had anyone out in the area. They said they didn't, not at that hour (it was like 8:30 at night). She called the cops and reported it. Not sure if they ever caught the guy.

My dad has a small arsenal in the house, but she's never fired any of the guns to my knowledge and I'm sure she wouldn't have known to grab a gun. Personally, I usually know when to expect visitors as they typically call me before they come over or we plan it well in advance. If I'm sitting at home and not expecting anyone and the doorbell rings, I automatically prepare myself that I may need to protect myself if it's necessary so I put my handgun on the little table next to the door as I look to see who it could be. If I don't recognize or can't tell, I hold the gun in my right hand behind the door and crack the door open and ask what they want, with full awareness that I may need to use it. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but after reports of several break-ins in the area, I don't feel comfortable when strangers come to the house.

But then again, the dog barking (he sounds a lot more vicious than he really is) tends to scare people. I've had legit salesmen come to the door and once I open the door and they hear him growling and barking, they don't even bother trying to sell me their junk, they just pick up their stuff and they leave.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by Draven

In NH, there is no castle doctrine today. We just had a case where a woman was tresspassing against a guy's property, he told her to leave, she didn't and continued to argue with him... He then produced a handgun at his side and told her to leave again. She did, called the police... HE was arrested, sentenced to 3 years... He was pardoned but at 'Time Served' and since he's a convicted felon, cannot possess firearms.

I didn't want to be the second example of that in my state, and I decided not to push it.

NH is rather liberal about a lot of things, but their self defense laws aren't one of them. However, they just passed a new law though that says that anyone who has a right to be somewhere legally has the right to stand their ground. Our law used to say that you had to attempt to retreat if it was safe before using deadly force, even in your own HOME. Now, if I'm confronted with violence, I don't have to prove that retreating was either impossible or attempted before I defend myself.

He's a bum, and you have the girlfriend (PICS?). I'd of just reminded him of that and kept walking.

Same thing here, castle doctrine doesn't protect your property, only your home or car. They can be on your land all they want as long as they aren't trying to gain access. Same thing would happen if you pulled a gun on a trespasser, aggravated assault with a firearm, mandatory 3 year sentence.

I still can't believe all states don't have stand your ground laws, they idea that you have to turn your back on an attacker and retreat is ridiculous.

I did just keep walking, but he was clearly looking for trouble, if he had looked any harder....

[Mr Tonka]

I got a detailed story from a local Dr. who shot and killed an intruder. It was several years ago but i was replacing the blood damaged flooring in his home. He was ok with what happened and was open with telling the story. I'll try an keep it short.

As irony would have it, he and his family arrived home from a day at an outdoor range. They all gathered in the kitchen as they got home to clean their weapons. Wife decides to go into their bedroom to change clothes. Upon entering the bedroom she saw a man sitting in one of their chairs holding a pistol. She comes screaming out of the bedroom saying there is a man with a gun in there. The Dr. tells his family to get in the room behind him. So family is in most westerly room, Dr is in that room but dead resting his large caliber hunting rifle against the wall while standing partially behind the corner. Dr's bedroom has a long hallway that leads back from the kitchen/great room. Kitchen / great room is in between master bedroom and room that the family is in. He's sighted in on the opening of the hall way but he's at an angle. So he can't see down the hallway. He yelled out that he was heavily armed and that the intruder should leave through the outside bedroom door. After waiting for about 5 minutes he heard something coming from the bedroom area. Without warning the guy jumped out of the hallway. Without hesitation, the Dr pulled the trigger as the man appeared and hit him with one shot just under his jaw. Bled out in a matter of seconds, but likely didn't feel much as his head was nearly severed, according to the Dr.

Their house is on about 4 acres of land and set back about 200 yards from the street in the middle of nowhere. He said that he didn't want to flee the house because he didn't know if someone else may be with the perp waiting out front. He had his teenage sons sighted in on the front entry points of the house while he was focused on the master bedroom. Was completely random guy. No affiliation with the Dr. in anyway.

You never know....

Like i said, the Dr. was cool with what happened. Wife was taking to realtors though. By the time we got the floors changed, new drywall, paint, etc... she was more open to staying there. Not sure if they moved or stayed.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by MP0WER

Their house is on about 4 acres of land and set back about 200 yards from the street in the middle of nowhere.

This is what scares me about moving out into a rural area with a large plot of land. No one can hear you scream kind of thing.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by O-cha

This is what scares me about moving out into a rural area with a large plot of land. No one can hear you scream kind of thing.

I think their neighbors on both sides are on same size property.

I personally like my 2 acres. Even more i like having water on two sides and being on a dead end. If someone is in front of my house, they are lost or they have a purpose. Either way, with my dog always laying at the glass front doors, we know when anyone is out front.

[Templar]

MP0WER, that's a pretty crazy story!

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Templar

MP0WER, that's a pretty crazy story!

Yup, glad it didn't happen to me.

[Quick135]

I vote for.....all of the above.

I love my firearms almost as much as I love my cars.

I have a Glock 22 in .40, a S&W M&P 15T, a Saiga AK-74, a Romanian AK-47, a Saiga 12, a Keltec PLR 16, a Keltec Sub 2000 in .40 (to match my Glock...same mags and same rounds) and a Mosin Nagant.

And they are all great firearms filling different roles. I mean its not like you are going to swing a full-sized Mosin around the hallways of your home for HD (not to mention just how many walls a 7.62x54R round would actually go through lol.)

I certainly would not classify my AR and AK variants as 'boring' rifles simply because they aren't full auto or even selective fire. Actually, quite the contrary.

A 7.62x39 round has quite a bit of punch, plus its very affordable ammunition. 1000 rounds for 200 bucks....thats a lot of bang for your buck. Plus, the AKs just keep on eating whatever you feed them. A spare firing pin, spring, piston/charging handle, etc is cheap to keep on hand if you ever do actually need one. I don't think I would necessarily throw that cartridge into the same category as a 5.45 x 39 or 5.56 cartridge.

As fun as the AKs and AR are to fire and plink around the range, they don't have anything on the Saiga 12. Its a little more finicky than an AK as far as reliability goes, but once you get the choke dialed in and find good 12 ga rounds that it likes, its an Energizer Bunny. The only problem? 10 round mags just aren't enough. Just as soon as it really starts humming, its out of ammo. I need to pick up a 20 round drum and see if that stretches the fun out a little longer.

PLR is fun, but really has a limited role. Its small so it would be great for HD, but a 5.56 cartridge just simply has too much penetration for that application. Not too mention you'll go deaf firing the thing without ear protection (I wear double ear protection with that damn thing.)

The Sub 2000 is an awesome HD firearm because it uses Glock mags and pistol cartridges. It folds up and can easily fit in a drawer. But its got a bit more stopping power than a regular handgun. I like that firearm because I can take it to the indoor pistol ranges and shoot a 'carbine' instead of just a handgun.

And the Mosin gets plenty of love for the fun factor, too. There is just something about shooting that rifle that never gets old. Just bring a shoulder pad if you choose to extend the fun beyond about 20 or so cartridges. It will remind you the next day just how much fun you had.

If I was buying strictly for HD, I would start with a handgun and a shotgun. Then move to a 'primary battle rifle' from there. Im very partial to Russian weapons (as you can probably see) but if price is not an issue, I would probably go the AR route first. Lighter cartridges, a lighter, more balanced rifle, don't have to worry about 922R, much more mods available, etc.

Either way, you can't go wrong. Just be safe, responsible and enjoy the sport


I forgot to add I do have a Hi-point 995 in 9mm but I don't usually admit to that. Its a fun little firearm for it's price, but I can't recommend buying one for any reason. It would be like recommending a Prius to a BMW enthusiast.

[Redcapote]

One of the best things you guys can do is NOT open or answer the door. If it's someone you're expecting, you'll have communicated times and you'll know what they drive. Random, unexpected knocks at the door do NOT need to be answered. Especially if you're a female and alone. If you're a male, you can stand on the non-swinging side of the door against the wall, ask who it is, and if you don't know them tell them to leave immediately, end of conversation. Even better, have an intercom, video camera, and heavily lit front door area. Communicate from a safer position within the house where you can have eyes on them via camera, and ask as to why they're on your property. Never inform them you're armed.

Sorry, but my guilty conscience of not being welcoming to a stranger means nothing next to my safety.

[immiketoo]

I never answer the door for strangers. Unless theyre screaming for help, and then I'll exit the back and come around tactically. (happened once) If I dont know you, there isnt much you can say that I'm interested. Door to door sales people are almost always sleezes and if you aren't selling girl scout cookies, move on.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

I never answer the door for strangers. Unless theyre screaming for help, and then I'll exit the back and come around tactically. (happened once) If I dont know you, there isnt much you can say that I'm interested. Door to door sales people are almost always sleezes and if you aren't selling girl scout cookies, move on.

I almost got mugged/conned in downtown Indianapolis a few weeks ago (Monday after the Superbowl) in broad daylight as I was entering my car in a vacant parking lot.

Hysterical female ran at me out of nowhere begging to use my cell phone because her boyfriend "smashed" hers. I put my hand out and shouted "Hold it!" when she got within 10-15 feet of me.

She had her hands in the front pocket of her hooded sweatshirt. Repeatedly asked to use my cell phone. She did not display a "smashed" phone.

I asked where her boyfriend was. She pointed off into the distance. I scanned the area and saw NO ONE - not a soul.

I told her to go into the building adjacent to the lot in order to use the phone in there to call 911 and I said that I would see to it that she made it into the building safely.

She just nodded her head and walked off into the distance (and not anywhere near the building).

In retrospect, I suppose I should have A) offered to make a 911 call for her if she was afraid of her boyfriend; B) Called 911 to report the encounter and what the girl looked like afterward to prevent her future scams.

I am confident that this was NOT a legit request on her part.

[immiketoo]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I almost got mugged/conned in downtown Indianapolis a few weeks ago (Monday after the Superbowl) in broad daylight as I was entering my car in a vacant parking lot.

Hysterical female ran at me out of nowhere begging to use my cell phone because her boyfriend "smashed" hers. I put my hand out and shouted "Hold it!" when she got within 10-15 feet of me.

She had her hands in the front pocket of her hooded sweatshirt. Repeatedly asked to use my cell phone. She did not display a "smashed" phone.

I asked where her boyfriend was. She pointed off into the distance. I scanned the area and saw NO ONE - not a soul.

I told her to go into the building adjacent to the lot in order to use the phone in there to call 911 and I said that I would see to it that she made it into the building safely.

She just nodded her head and walked off into the distance (and not anywhere near the building).

In retrospect, I suppose I should have A) offered to make a 911 call for her if she was afraid of her boyfriend; B) Called 911 to report the encounter and what the girl looked like afterward to prevent her future scams.

I am confident that this was NOT a legit request on her part.

Trust your instincts. They are almost never wrong in these situations,but people often ignore them to their peril.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by MP0WER

I got a detailed story from a local Dr. who shot and killed an intruder.

Is it bad that I didnt understand why the doctor would be using a firearm for about 5 mninutes? He doesnt use guns only a screwdriver!


Anyway, its not a firearm story, but it does have to do with a break in. Two actually.


My grandmother was a breeder of Irish Wolfhounds and Great Danes. The dogs were very kind and well tempered (as nearly all large breed dogs are)

One day my grandparents are out for a few hours, leaving the three wolfhounds they had at the time in the house and they come back a few hours later.


They found a man pinned underneath the screen door on their front stoop. Apparently this guy had the bright idea of taking the door off the hings and the dogs remained silent, waiting until he had pulled the door of then one pounced and knocked him to the ground under the dog and the door while the other two growled and brandished their teeth anytime the guy moved even an inch.

6 months later someone else breaks into the house through a window while my parents are out of the house. Same 3 dogs are there and they do the exact same thing minus the door. Pin the guy under one dog while the other growl.


Now neither potential robber as actually hurt in either instance, just stuck under a 200lb dog for a few hours. However they both sued my grandfather for "mental anguish" and won! They each won 50 grand!

I have a lot of problems with the laws in my state because of incidents like these.


The moment that I am an actual home owner I fully plan on getting myself a wolfhound along with a proper firearm. My uncle is a paraplegic because of an armed home invasion. He was shot in the head and somehow survived, albeit in a wheelchair.


But then I hear stories of people like my uncle who used to carry 3 pistols on his person everywhere he went in manhattan back in the 70s, a .22 long barrel, a .38 snub nose, and an M1911. He actually got in a shootout in a subway station with some guys (hint thats why his carry permits were revoked)


My family has a long history with weapons and I could tell these stories all day haha!

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Now neither potential robber as actually hurt in either instance, just stuck under a 200lb dog for a few hours. However they both sued my grandfather for "mental anguish" and won! They each won 50 grand!

Whenever I hear stories like this, I have to assume a really bad lawyer was involved.

[zeenon53]

So back to my original question just for a second, I love all the info and stories in this thread. What is a good way of purchasing? Where do i find the good deals on AR's?

[MisterSkiMask]

Originally Posted by zeenon53

So back to my original question just for a second, I love all the info and stories in this thread. What is a good way of purchasing? Where do i find the good deals on AR's?

Go look at a local gun shop for starters. If you don't find what you like find a dealer to do the transfer for you and cruise the internet.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

I never answer the door for strangers. Unless theyre screaming for help, and then I'll exit the back and come around tactically. (happened once) If I dont know you, there isnt much you can say that I'm interested. Door to door sales people are almost always sleezes and if you aren't selling girl scout cookies, move on.

God I love those damned cookies......

[Draven]

Online is the way to go. budsgunshop.com has a great FFL network with prices for transfers right there. My local place does $20 for transfers of handguns and long guns.