Changing Brake Pads and Fluid

Shosholoza · 10-04-2011, 11:23 AM

I have a ChinMotorsports HDPE weekend coming up, yesterday I changed my Pads (to Performance Friction) and fluid to Motul RBF 600.

My Question:
I flushed nearly 3 quarts of RBF 600 through the system. I used a Motive Power Bleeder first @ 17psi, but the brake pedal was soft.
So I did it the old fashioned way, and there was some air in the system for the rear calipers. I thought I got it all out, but the pedal is still soft! Better, but much too soft.
The workshop manager at the steelership says it feels like there is still air in the system, he recommends bleeding again - 1/2 a quart from each caliper, and to also double check the pad alignment.
Any other input from forum members?

My observations:
1. Soft plastic jacking guides. Before you try to jack your car get two of these - BMW Jack Pad Adapter ES#251251 - my car has these very soft plastic guides that normal jackstands destroy!
After damaging 2 of them I fabricated some wooden blocks to put inside them for support and then used a hockey puck on the jack stand and floor jack. The If you have the normal jack stands, you will still need a hockey puck with a groove in it to put on the jackstand. If you have the jackstands with the round flat tops, you won't need the hockey pucks. PITA! They don't want us to pack the car up!

2. Lifting all 4 wheels on jackstands. Also a PITA! You will need four jackstand adapters, and four modified hockey pucks. You will also need four 12X2X18 inch pieces of wood to drive onto. This is because the car is too low to allow access to the front and rear jacking points for a 3 1/2 inch hydraulic racing jack.
You then raise the front wheels and insert the jackstands. You will have about 3 inches movement on the jack handle, its very tight.
For the rear you need an additional 4x4x4 block of wood to put on the jack to reach the differential jacking point without touching the aluminum cooling fins.
I tried all variations of trying to lift the car from one site and then the other. All variations result in the car seesawing on whatever two jackstands are supporting it. Not safe!
I have pics if anyone is interested

rantarM3 · 10-04-2011, 11:53 AM

Was the pedal soft before you did the work?

Can't hurt to bleed the system again but it's odd that air got in to begin with. Perhaps you can have a good shop do it for you and check the brake pad alignment. Not worth taking any risks with the brakes.

Shosholoza · 10-04-2011, 12:36 PM

No, the pedal was fine before.

sawzall · 10-04-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shosholoza

I have a ChinMotorsports HDPE weekend coming up, yesterday I changed my Pads (to Performance Friction) and fluid to Motul RBF 600.

My Question:
I flushed nearly 3 quarts of RBF 600 through the system. I used a Motive Power Bleeder first @ 17psi, but the brake pedal was soft.
So I did it the old fashioned way, and there was some air in the system for the rear calipers. I thought I got it all out, but the pedal is still soft! Better, but much too soft.
The workshop manager at the steelership says it feels like there is still air in the system, he recommends bleeding again - 1/2 a quart from each caliper, and to also double check the pad alignment.
Any other input from forum members?

Did you bed in your pads yet? That may be causing the softness.

JCtx · 10-04-2011, 03:27 PM

One quart is more than enough to bleed your brakes thoroughly. I used a bit more since I always do the clutch as well. I personally don't like using pressure; the reservoir is not designed to be pressurized IMO. I've always use vacuum with zero problems. If that doesn't work, I'd try the pedal method for a few pumps. If still soft, you'd have to do a reverse bleed. And as a last resort, you'd have to activate the brake module piston with a BT tool or a dealer. Good luck.

ManAndMachine · 10-05-2011, 03:32 PM

1st..Use these jack adapters to keep from destroying the jack points..

http://burgertuning.com/BMW_jack_pad_adapter.html

2nd..Did you empty as much fluid out of the res with a turkey baster,then refill with new fluid before started bleeding?

3rd..Are you starting at the furthest caliper from the master cyl?

4th..No more than a quarter of a turn to start bleeding..

I have used the Motiv power bleeder lots of times with no issues.Not sure where you've gone wrong if you've followed the proper bleeding procedure.

10-04-2011, 11:23 AM	#1
Shosholoza Shosholoza 31 Rep 188 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Florida iTrader: (1)	Changing Brake Pads and Fluid - Observations and a question... I have a ChinMotorsports HDPE weekend coming up, yesterday I changed my Pads (to Performance Friction) and fluid to Motul RBF 600. My Question: I flushed nearly 3 quarts of RBF 600 through the system. I used a Motive Power Bleeder first @ 17psi, but the brake pedal was soft. So I did it the old fashioned way, and there was some air in the system for the rear calipers. I thought I got it all out, but the pedal is still soft! Better, but much too soft. The workshop manager at the steelership says it feels like there is still air in the system, he recommends bleeding again - 1/2 a quart from each caliper, and to also double check the pad alignment. Any other input from forum members? My observations: 1. Soft plastic jacking guides. Before you try to jack your car get two of these - BMW Jack Pad Adapter ES#251251 - my car has these very soft plastic guides that normal jackstands destroy! After damaging 2 of them I fabricated some wooden blocks to put inside them for support and then used a hockey puck on the jack stand and floor jack. The If you have the normal jack stands, you will still need a hockey puck with a groove in it to put on the jackstand. If you have the jackstands with the round flat tops, you won't need the hockey pucks. PITA! They don't want us to pack the car up! 2. Lifting all 4 wheels on jackstands. Also a PITA! You will need four jackstand adapters, and four modified hockey pucks. You will also need four 12X2X18 inch pieces of wood to drive onto. This is because the car is too low to allow access to the front and rear jacking points for a 3 1/2 inch hydraulic racing jack. You then raise the front wheels and insert the jackstands. You will have about 3 inches movement on the jack handle, its very tight. For the rear you need an additional 4x4x4 block of wood to put on the jack to reach the differential jacking point without touching the aluminum cooling fins. I tried all variations of trying to lift the car from one site and then the other. All variations result in the car seesawing on whatever two jackstands are supporting it. Not safe! I have pics if anyone is interested __________________ SOLD...E92 M3, Competition Package, MDCT, Ground Control Adjustable Camber plates, StopTech 380 BBK, OEM exhaust mod
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10-04-2011, 12:36 PM	#3
Shosholoza Shosholoza 31 Rep 188 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Florida iTrader: (1)	No, the pedal was fine before. __________________ SOLD...E92 M3, Competition Package, MDCT, Ground Control Adjustable Camber plates, StopTech 380 BBK, OEM exhaust mod
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10-04-2011, 03:27 PM	#5
JCtx Major General 258 Rep 5,012 Posts Drives: No BMW yet Join Date: May 2008 Location: El Paso TX iTrader: (0)	One quart is more than enough to bleed your brakes thoroughly. I used a bit more since I always do the clutch as well. I personally don't like using pressure; the reservoir is not designed to be pressurized IMO. I've always use vacuum with zero problems. If that doesn't work, I'd try the pedal method for a few pumps. If still soft, you'd have to do a reverse bleed. And as a last resort, you'd have to activate the brake module piston with a BT tool or a dealer. Good luck.
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10-05-2011, 03:32 PM	#6
ManAndMachine Lieutenant 25 Rep 596 Posts Drives: G80M3 BG KO, '17 Taco Pro Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Valencia,Ca iTrader: (0)	1st..Use these jack adapters to keep from destroying the jack points.. http://burgertuning.com/BMW_jack_pad_adapter.html 2nd..Did you empty as much fluid out of the res with a turkey baster,then refill with new fluid before started bleeding? 3rd..Are you starting at the furthest caliper from the master cyl? 4th..No more than a quarter of a turn to start bleeding.. I have used the Motiv power bleeder lots of times with no issues.Not sure where you've gone wrong if you've followed the proper bleeding procedure.
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10-04-2011, 11:53 AM	#2
rantarM3 Captain 205 Rep 729 Posts Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Florida iTrader: (3)	Was the pedal soft before you did the work? Can't hurt to bleed the system again but it's odd that air got in to begin with. Perhaps you can have a good shop do it for you and check the brake pad alignment. Not worth taking any risks with the brakes.
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