Sponsored by The Tire Rack

[consolidated]

This look may not be for everyone but they are very handy for those who track their cars and swap wheels often. The bullet nosed studs make for quick work and little chance for cross threading the nut. No need to balance the wheel on the hub trying to get the first bolt aligned and in.

This company has a good reputation among the race community. And the studs are much cheaper than their Porsche equivalent. I have the 75mm studs installed and the pic shows them with a 10mm spacer with 2-3 threads showing. I like how these don't protrude past the face of the RAC wheels.

They install with a 7/32" allen, which is a bit odd, but saves from having to use two nuts to tighten down.

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info...65385a6a2abccd

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Oh boy...

I hope these new Vorshlag wheel studs are better than the previous ones they offered.

Those studs were cheap pieces of crap!

My opinion...you should have gone with the Turner Motorsport studs. They are much stronger. (190,000 PSI heat-treated cro-moly steel)
They have machine rolled (not machine cut) threads, which are less likely to strip out if over tightened.

[consolidated]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Oh boy...

I hope these new Vorshlag wheel studs are better than the previous ones they offered.

Those studs were cheap pieces of crap!

My opinion...you should have gone with the Turner Motorsport studs. They are much stronger. (190,000 PSI heat-treated cro-moly steel)
They have machine rolled (not machine cut) threads, which are less likely to strip out if over tightened.

Are you referring to their old plated flat nosed studs that sell for $2, I read of some having problems with those. After talking to them I felt assured this is a entirely different stud. What failures did you experience?

These are made in the USA (per Vorshlag) by ARP (per others) I believe, is that better? You've likely heard of ARP.

I will say that studs are a wear item if they see track use.

They're Texas boys, c'mon, don't trash them unless you have some first hand experience with there products.

Here are their specs, hopefully they won't kill me.

# Material: 30MnB3
# Heat Treatment: Hardened and tempered to 10.9 class
# Tensile Strength: 150,000 psi
# Hardness HV: min 320, max 380
# Elongation after breakage: 9% min.
# Max Torque: 180Nm (132 lb-ft) - recommended torque on BMW apps using anti-seize is 80 lb-ft
# Coating: black zinc phosphate plating to 12 micron thickness, min.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by consolidated

Are you referring to their old plated flat nosed studs that sell for $2, I read of some having problems with those. After talking to them I felt assured this is a entirely different stud. What failures did you experience?

These are made in the USA (per Vorshlag) by ARP (per others) I believe, is that better? You've likely heard of ARP.

I will say that studs are a wear item if they see track use.

They're Texas boys, c'mon, don't trash them unless you have some first hand experience with there products.

Here are their specs, hopefully they won't kill me.

Vorshlag use to sell some cheap studs made in China, that were of poor quality. Unfortunately, I was unaware of this before I bought them, and they got chewed up pretty quickly. (less than a year) I stripped out the threads one one of them and broke 2 other studs as well. The quality was terrible.

So forgive me if I'm not all warm and fuzzy about these "newly redesigned" wheel studs...

Even though these are consumable parts, the Turner studs are much better quality overall. (last longer)

Cheers.

[M3V8Driver]

Grade-8 is standard for most safety-related items such as brakes, seat-belts, and anything that has to be mounted with hardware that resists shearing. These studs at Grade-10.9, which I never heard of, are likely not as strong as they should be. Here's a little info for the research-minded : http://industrialhardware.com/excel/gradeMarkings.htm

[Fair]

I'll try my best to answer the questions professionally and not take the jabs personally. Note: I'm not trying to sell anything here, just replying to some questions and misconceptions.

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Oh boy...

I hope these new Vorshlag wheel studs are better than the previous ones they offered.

Those studs were cheap pieces of crap!

From your second post it sounds like you had our 60mm studs, which were a $2 stud, which I think we can all agree is quite different from a $6 or $7 wheel stud. We sold these 60mm studs in a low cost wheel stud kit, and sold tens of thousands of them for many years. They worked fine for the street and even some track use; we used them on our own street and race cars for years and put them through the wringer. Only problems we heard of were when people installed them incorrectly, which did happen sometimes with these and our 80mm studs as well.

We've since dropped both of those wheel studs. Not because they were "bad", but because a small percentage of people just could not seem to follow the installation instructions. Sometimes these same people spouted off on internet forums about how they had a stud strip out, and other folks got spooked. The finish wasn't as nice as our current Competition studs, and they didn't have the features (bullet nose, etc) that were expected in a higher end stud, but again - they were much lower cost. Our 80mm stud was made in Italy and the 60mm stud was an Asian built product. Our current studs are made in USA and they are as good as anything offered for a BMW. There will always be haters.

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

My opinion...you should have gone with the Turner Motorsport studs. They are much stronger. (190,000 PSI heat-treated cro-moly steel)
They have machine rolled (not machine cut) threads, which are less likely to strip out if over tightened.

Turner/ARP makes a great wheel stud, no doubt about it. They are a bit pricier than ours and I cannot say anything bad about that product.

As for strength, well, fasteners are a funny thing. There is no magic specification that does everything perfectly for every application. We could have specified our Competition studs to be 190 KSI material (grade 12.9), but there's a trade-off: with higher tensile strength comes a loss of "toughness"... the harder the material, the more brittle it becomes. From our engineering backgrounds as well as years of experience in making and selling wheel studs we've come to agree with the OEM auto manufacturers and use the 10.9 / 150,000 psi tensile strength material and heat treatment for wheel studs. This specification makes for a more forgiving and and longer lasting stud. Also, when severely over-torqued, driven with a loose lug nut (it happens - people make mistakes), or when the stud otherwise exceeds its holding power they have a different type of failure mode, which isn't so abrupt. They will stretch before they snap, unlike a higher tensile strength material. Long story short - there's a lot more to making a wheel stud that having the highest tensile strength. Ask any mechanical engineer.

Originally Posted by M3V8Driver

Grade-8 is standard for most safety-related items such as brakes, seat-belts, and anything that has to be mounted with hardware that resists shearing. These studs at Grade-10.9, which I never heard of, are likely not as strong as they should be. Here's a little info for the research-minded

Ahh, a common mistake. Grade 3, 5, and 8 and is for "farm grade" SAE bolts (inch sizes). Metric fasteners (like our wheel studs) follow a different grading scale, with the most common being grades 5.8/8.8/10.9/12.9 (but there are many more). Look it up. http://www.k-tbolt.com/bolt_chart.html

Again, a higher grade doesn't necessarily mean a "better" stud. We chose 10.9 grade specs for our Competition studs on purpose. If you want a "higher number" on your studs, there are other sources.

Cheers,

[attila]

Very interesting post!! I am looking for studs myself and the Turner's shorter studs are on back order for weeks now. What is the price on the Vorshlag studs now?

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by Fair

I'll try my best to answer the questions professionally and not take the jabs personally. Note: I'm not trying to sell anything here, just replying to some questions and misconceptions.


From your second post it sounds like you had our 60mm studs, which were a $2 stud, which I think we can all agree is quite different from a $6 or $7 wheel stud. We sold these 60mm studs in a low cost wheel stud kit, and sold tens of thousands of them for many years. They worked fine for the street and even some track use; we used them on our own street and race cars for years and put them through the wringer. Only problems we heard of were when people installed them incorrectly, which did happen sometimes with these and our 80mm studs as well.

We've since dropped both of those wheel studs. Not because they were "bad", but because a small percentage of people just could not seem to follow the installation instructions. Sometimes these same people spouted off on internet forums about how they had a stud strip out, and other folks got spooked. The finish wasn't as nice as our current Competition studs, and they didn't have the features (bullet nose, etc) that were expected in a higher end stud, but again - they were much lower cost. Our 80mm stud was made in Italy and the 60mm stud was an Asian built product. Our current studs are made in USA and they are as good as anything offered for a BMW. There will always be haters.

Turner/ARP makes a great wheel stud, no doubt about it. They are a bit pricier than ours and I cannot say anything bad about that product.

Cheers,

No need to get you panties in a bunch Terry.

I was simply dissatisfied with the performance and quality of one of your parts. (that is now discontinued)

Dropping those studs was a good business move.

I assure you there was no improper installation on my part. I'm way too particular about such things.

I blame myself more for going the cheap route, instead of buying the better quality wheel studs in the first place.

BTW: I have recommended your camber plates to more than a few people over the past few years, because of the stellar quality. The fit and finish is top notch. That is my opinion based on past experience. It's that simple. No hidden agendas or BS involved. I call it like I see it. Period.

If I really had an axe to grind with Vorshlag, you'd know about it.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Vorshlag use to sell some cheap studs made in China, that were of poor quality. Unfortunately, I was unaware of this before I bought them, and they got chewed up pretty quickly. (less than a year) I stripped out the threads one one of them and broke 2 other studs as well. The quality was terrible.

Sounds to me like user error. I have had the Vorshlag CHEAP 60mm studs on two cars now with no problems. I apply a good amount of anti-seize to the threads, and ALWAYS hand thread the nuts on and then use a wratchet to tighten them followed by torquing them with a torque wrench once the car is on the ground. I like the cheap 60mm ones because I like to run a closed lugnut which requires a shorter stud, and I DON'T do spacers. Here are my install pics:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200526

[King Tut]

I will update this thread if I have any issues with them.

[M3V8Driver]

Here's another good source of information regarding the topic of bolt grades.
http://www.sizes.com/tools/bolts_metric_standards.htm

According to this source, SAE grade 8 & metric grade 10.9 are similar. Neither is "farm grade" as Terry put it. Grade 8 (which typically has three flavors) is rated high for tensil strength and resistance to shearing, making it a good grade for safety applications. So the subject studs are likely of good quality and a good bet for your intentions.

[Z4MCJJ]

Seems like a reasonable explanation by Fair....

[david @ eas]

Macht Schnell actually also just released their competition Stud Conversion kits (75mm Bullet tips):

Competition Wheel Stud Kit Features:
- 10.9 Grade Strength Class for ultimate strength and safety
- Bullet Tip prevents cross-threading
- Faster and easier wheel changes
- 75mm length allows for most spacer thicknesses (up to +12mm) to be used without changing studs
- Eliminates the need for balancing the wheel while threading in stock wheel lugs
- Black zinc coating for additional strength and corrosion/wear resistance - Allen key insert for easy installation
- Fits most BMW models



Macht Schnell - Competition Stud Conversion Kit (75mm Bullet Tip)
http://www.europeanautosource.com/pr...oducts_id=2377

If you have any questions feel free to ask!

[aus]

Thanks.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by jurrian @ eas

Macht Schnell actually also just released their competition Stud Conversion kits (75mm Bullet tips):

Competition Wheel Stud Kit Features:
- 10.9 Grade Strength Class for ultimate strength and safety
- Bullet Tip prevents cross-threading
- Faster and easier wheel changes
- 75mm length allows for most spacer thicknesses (up to +12mm) to be used without changing studs
- Eliminates the need for balancing the wheel while threading in stock wheel lugs
- Black zinc coating for additional strength and corrosion/wear resistance - Allen key insert for easy installation
- Fits most BMW models



Macht Schnell - Competition Stud Conversion Kit (75mm Bullet Tip)
http://www.europeanautosource.com/pr...oducts_id=2377

If you have any questions feel free to ask!

This new wheel stud kit looks very promising Jurrian.

Can you expand on the material construction a little more please...

Type of steel?
Ultimate tensile strength?
Threads rolled or machined?

These key specifications are important to me.

[VictorH]

Are we talking about screw in studs here? If not why do they come with a an allen wrench. I thought screw in studs were a bad idea and not allowed by most racing bodies.

My preference are press in studs, but that requires the hubs to be drilled out, properly reamed and then installed with the correct interference fit.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

This new wheel stud kit looks very promising Jurrian.

Can you expand on the material construction a little more please...

Type of steel?
Ultimate tensile strength?
Threads rolled or machined?

These key specifications are important to me.

Studs are medium carbon alloy steel, quenched and tempered with rolled threads.

- 940 MPa yield strength
- 1040 MPa tensile strength
- 830 MPa proof strength

Hope this helps in your decision.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Studs are medium carbon alloy steel, quenched and tempered with rolled threads.

- 940 MPa yield strength
- 1040 MPa tensile strength
- 830 MPa proof strength

Hope this helps in your derision.

1040MPa = 150k tensile strength

Hardened and tempered steel

Black Zinc coating for corrosion/wear resistance

Rolled threads

Sounds like an excellent product.


Thanks Tom.

[JAJ]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Studs are medium carbon alloy steel, quenched and tempered with rolled threads.

- 940 MPa yield strength
- 1040 MPa tensile strength
- 830 MPa proof strength

Hope this helps in your derision.

Derision? Either spell-check nailed you or you spend way too much time on internet forums.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by JAJ

Derision? Either spell-check nailed you or you spend way too much time on internet forums.

It's the latter.

[JAJ]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

It's the latter.

I know how you feel. Imagine - I was reading one of your posts from early July last night and discovered that you were quoting me in a product testimonial!

The internet, as vast as it is, is still a small world...

[Fair]

Originally Posted by VictorH

Are we talking about screw in studs here? If not why do they come with a an allen wrench. I thought screw in studs were a bad idea and not allowed by most racing bodies.

My preference are press in studs, but that requires the hubs to be drilled out, properly reamed and then installed with the correct interference fit.

This thread is about wheel stud conversions, not custom machined hubs with press-in, splined wheel studs. I doubt that many race teams go to this trouble - we have many race teams with our screw in studs that love them. RRT now has over 100 wheel torque on-off cycles and numerous races on a set of Vorshlag competition studs on their Grand Am car and they are very happy with the product.

Most racing bodies do allow screw in wheel stud conversions for cars that originally came with screw in lug bolts - because these are much safer than lug bolts. Any tech inspector or race team member can see proper lug nut thread engagement on a stud+nut combo, unlike a wheel bolt.