NEW BMW M3 GTS -- Official specs, press releases, photos and video

[PrinceSmooth]

i want the wheels, the splitter, and the exhaust, NOW

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by PrinceSmooth

i want the wheels, the splitter, and the exhaust, NOW

NO!

[IND-Distribution]

I wonder if people will be able to purchase the parts individually from the dealer, and if a distributor will be able to sneak them into the us?

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by Ilia@IND

I wonder if people will be able to purchase the parts individually from the dealer, and if a distributor will be able to sneak them into the us?

YES...eventually.

But only AFTER my orders are fulfilled through a BMW Motorsport contact.

The cost for you lowly peasants will be one arm & two legs.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by ruff

Love the GTS, but if it is not produced in sufficient numbers and is not coming to the U.S., then it is simply another marketing ploy for BMW. Porsche is willing spend the money to bring U.S. reg limited production high performance track oriented cars to the U.S., but BMW can't even muster the CSL or GTS to these forbidden shores. What does that tell you about the commitment to Motorsport and the difference in brand panache between Porsche and BMW in regards to their ability to produce and sell high performance cars for profit...I think, quite a lot.

Totally, a German marque selling some cars only in Europe is nothing but an incredible marketing ploy. What are they thinking?

As you might know, Porsche is able to sell their cars at way higher prices in the USA than BMW does (or at least used to do). BMW knows they can't sell the GTS in the USA for $115,000 (which would be the price following Porsche's leap), so they don't even try. People call for cars like the GTS, but are not willing to pay the price for it in return. BMW might change it's strategy lately. I told this before, but the price for the Z4 in the USA might be only the beginning.


Best regards,
south

[aus]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

YES...eventually.

But only AFTER my orders are fulfilled through a BMW Motorsport contact.

The cost for you lowly peasants will be one arm & two legs.

Well, at least post some pic's for us lowly peasants.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by southlight

Totally, a German marque selling some cars only in Europe is nothing but an incredible marketing ploy. What are they thinking?

So who do you work for? I would bet it's not Audi.

Obviously, BMW's thinks it is a good marketing ploy or they wouldn't be spending the money or the time to develop such a low production vehicle. Otherwise, why build such a vehicle?

Using "rolleyes" as a smiley is an oxymoron and a bit childish for an otherwise respectful debate.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by ruff

Obviously in BMW's mind it is a good marketing ploy or they wouldn't be spending the money or the time to develop such a low production vehicle.

It's funny that many people around the world were begging BMW for such a car, but when they build it eventually, it's just a marketing ploy. Tell me ruff, would you buy an GTS for more than $100,000? You wouldn't, so why should it be offered?

Originally Posted by ruff

Using "rolleyes" as a smiley is an oxymoron and a bit childish for an otherwise respectful debate.

To avoid an oxymoron, you can also call it an emoticon. You know, I think you're fully aware of the differences between Porsche and BMW. This also means that you know why Porsche can do what they do and BMW can't. You know it, but choose to ignore when you post these polemic comments. An expressing cynicism seems appropriate to me.


Best regards,
south

[ruff]

Originally Posted by southlight

Tell me ruff, would you buy an GTS for more than $100,000? You wouldn't, so why should it be offered?
south

Friend, don't be so sure. Owning a BMW is less ostentatious than owning Porsche. And if it can run close to a GT3 RS, for less money, why not?

[southlight]

Originally Posted by ruff

Friend, don't be so sure. Owning a BMW is less ostentatious than owning Porsche. And if it can run close to a GT3 RS, for less money, why not?

You're right, but that's not necessarily good for BMW. In general, people tend to spend more money for ostentatious goods (like Porsche or Rolex). In this case, you might be a personable exception.


Best regards,
south

[footie]

BMW and to a lesser extent Mercedes have chose to buy Market share in the US by discounting their products. Audi chose not to and their Market share reflects this policy. I'm not knocking their (BMW) marketing policy, for them it has worked but in some cases it will back fired and the GTS might well be one of those cases, I doubt they are willing to sell it at a lose to please their US customers who are too use to a great deal to pay top dollar when the occasion demands it so chances are the US won't be offered it.

Audi chose not to follow their led and no surprise they can sell the R8 at a price unheard of for a BMW.

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by footie

Audi chose not to follow their led and no surprise they can sell the R8 at a price unheard of for a BMW.

Audi's aren't price that much higher than competing models from BMWs and Mercedes so I don't understand your comment about BMW and Mercedes "buying market share".

Also, Audi sells the R8 at a premium price because it's a boutique car; a mid-engined exotic. Which Lamborghini helped them build! The M3 GTS is a stupendously fast, amazingly engineered 3 series, but still a 3 series. Were BMW to wade into the mid-engined exotic market, I've no doubt they could command R8-like prices.

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

fucking crazy machine

[footie]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

Audi's aren't price that much higher than competing models from BMWs and Mercedes so I don't understand your comment about BMW and Mercedes "buying market share".

These pages are full of comments that Audi are far more expensive than the equivalent BMW, now either they are all wrong or you are. Frankly I think they are right, especially when you consider a basic A4 with only a 2.0L engine cost as much as a basic 3 series with a 2.8L.

BMW are buying market share by pricing their products ultra competitive in the US, great for you but such policies do backfire when you look to charge top dollar when required.

Originally Posted by Garissimo

Also, Audi sells the R8 at a premium price because it's a boutique car; a mid-engined exotic. Which Lamborghini helped them build! The M3 GTS is a stupendously fast, amazingly engineered 3 series, but still a 3 series. Were BMW to wade into the mid-engined exotic market, I've no doubt they could command R8-like prices.

Lets get this straight once and for all, Lamborghini didn't help Audi with the R8, it was the other way round.

I get that some may view the GTS as only a 3 series, but we aren't talking about a normal M3 here. This car is a stripped out racer that will probably make it to competitive racing in the same way as the GT3 does. I have no doubt that it will sell out in Europe (even in these difficult times) but doubt if the US customer would be willing to dip deep enough for a brand that in their country prices itself below equivalent other German brangs.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by footie

These pages are full of comments that Audi are far more expensive than the equivalent BMW, now either they are all wrong or you are. Frankly I think they are right, especially when you consider a basic A4 with only a 2.0L engine cost as much as a basic 3 series with a 2.8L.

Well, to continue the OT, in the US:

A4 2.0TFSI sedan, 211 hp/258 lb ft = $31,450
0-60 6.4s; TS 130 mph; 22/30 mpg

328i sedan, 230 hp/200 lb ft = $32,850
0-60 6.3s; TS 130 mph; 18/28 mpg

The BMW is a 3.0L, BTW, but the Audi's turbo gives it a torque advantage. Seems like almost wash based on the numbers, thought the Audi is $1,400 less.

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by footie

These pages are full of comments that Audi are far more expensive than the equivalent BMW, now either they are all wrong or you are.

Sorry, that doesn't cut it. The fact remains that the bread and butter of Audi's lineup (the A4 and to a lesser extent the A6) are priced within spitting distance of the 3 and 5 series. Audi's may be slightly more expensive because they are generally equipped with quattro (which adds cost) and are often compared against RWD BMW models.

Originally Posted by footie

Frankly I think they are right, especially when you consider a basic A4 with only a 2.0L engine cost as much as a basic 3 series with a 2.8L.

That 2.0L engine is turbocharged and makes almost equivalent hp and torque. Look, your claim that BMW and Mercedes "buy market share" sort of implies they are selling their cars at artificially low prices. I don't see that happening.

Originally Posted by footie

BMW are buying market share by pricing their products ultra competitive in the US, great for you but such policies do backfire when you look to charge top dollar when required.

Backfire? BMW sold over 5,000 Z8s from 2000-2003 at R8 like prices. Half of them were sold in the US.

Originally Posted by footie

Lets get this straight once and for all, Lamborghini didn't help Audi with the R8, it was the other way round.

Audi helped Lamborghini build a reliable exotic but the notion that Audi came along and suddenly taught Lamborghini how to engineer a proper mid-engined supercar is far-fetched. Much of what Audi learned with the Gallardo collaboration went into the R8. What you are saying is that Audi could have designed the R8 all on their own - no Lamborghini, no Gallardo - and it would have turned out just as good as it did? I don't think many would agree with that.

Originally Posted by footie

I get that some may view the GTS as only a 3 series, but we aren't talking about a normal M3 here. This car is a stripped out racer that will probably make it to competitive racing in the same way as the GT3 does. I have no doubt that it will sell out in Europe (even in these difficult times) but doubt if the US customer would be willing to dip deep enough for a brand that in their country prices itself below equivalent other German brangs.

That is an interesting, but slightly off-base analysis. Let me put it this way, were Audi to offer a lightweight, stripped-of-almost-all-amenities-and soundproofing, track-focused RS4 or RS5, it would suffer the exact same fate as the M3 GTS would here. It has nothing to do with the fact that BMW offers an entry level 1-series. BMW's brand is quite strong in the US.

[footie]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

Sorry, that doesn't cut it. The fact remains that the bread and butter of Audi's lineup (the A4 and to a lesser extent the A6) are priced within spitting distance of the 3 and 5 series. Audi's may be slightly more expensive because they are generally equipped with quattro (which adds cost) and are often compared against RWD BMW models.



That 2.0L engine is turbocharged and makes almost equivalent hp and torque. Look, your claim that BMW and Mercedes "buy market share" sort of implies they are selling their cars at artificially low prices. I don't see that happening.

Equivalent in price but I looked at the base A4 2.0L form without awd and compared it to the 6 cylinder 3 series. Most people view cylinder and engine capacity as a gauge of quality and status and as such the BMW offers more for the same money. Whether it's a quick or as powerful isn't in question.

Originally Posted by Garissimo

Backfire? BMW sold over 5,000 Z8s from 2000-2003 at R8 like prices. Half of them were sold in the US.

Roughly half the figure that Audi have achieved with the R8.

Originally Posted by Garissimo

Audi helped Lamborghini build a reliable exotic but the notion that Audi came along and suddenly taught Lamborghini how to engineer a proper mid-engined supercar is far-fetched. Much of what Audi learned with the Gallardo collaboration went into the R8. What you are saying is that Audi could have designed the R8 all on their own - no Lamborghini, no Gallardo - and it would have turned out just as good as it did? I don't think many would agree with that.

I will not be drawn into this discussion, I know the truth regarding Audi's involvement with Lanmborghini and trust me you are well wide of the mark.

Originally Posted by Garissimo

That is an interesting, but slightly off-base analysis. Let me put it this way, were Audi to offer a lightweight, stripped-of-almost-all-amenities-and soundproofing, track-focused RS4 or RS5, it would suffer the exact same fate as the M3 GTS would here. It has nothing to do with the fact that BMW offers an entry level 1-series. BMW's brand is quite strong in the US.

Now on this I would agree, the A4/5 platform is a mainstream product. That might explain why Audi are currently testing a GT3 version of the R8 for possible production.

BTW, the track focused RS5 is coming and it will sell, plus it will surprise quite a few people that think Audi's only true driver's car is mid-engined.

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Well, to continue the OT, in the US:

A4 2.0TFSI sedan, 211 hp/258 lb ft = $31,450
0-60 6.4s; TS 130 mph; 22/30 mpg

328i sedan, 230 hp/200 lb ft = $32,850
0-60 6.3s; TS 130 mph; 18/28 mpg

The BMW is a 3.0L, BTW, but the Audi's turbo gives it a torque advantage. Seems like almost wash based on the numbers, thought the Audi is $1,400 less.

More OT: I'm also in Oregon and bought my 335i from Rasmussen.

As far as pricing goes, you're right on the mark. Looking at real-world street prices, reasonably well equipped 2010 A4 2.0Ts from Carerra motors in Bend or Sunset in Beaverton fall in the $37K to $42k range. Compare to the 2010 328i lineup at Rasmussen, and they're in exactly the same price bracket with most of the 328xi cars priced a little over $40K.

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by footie

Equivalent in price but I looked at the base A4 2.0L form without awd and compared it to the 6 cylinder 3 series. Most people view cylinder and engine capacity as a gauge of quality and status and as such the BMW offers more for the same money. Whether it's a quick or as powerful isn't in question.

Well, Audi's quattro is perceived as a value add, and their interiors are arguably prettier, so I don't agree that engine displacement is the be all and end-all in terms of perceived value but we're splitting hairs.

Originally Posted by footie

Roughly half the figure that Audi have achieved with the R8.

You're saying Audi has sold 10,000 R8s to date or am I misreading that? Here are the numbers Audi is reporting:

http://www.audiusanews.com/newsrelea...mid=17&id=1158

They say 900 units in 2008 and 240 in 2007. Don't get me wrong, while I love the Z8's styling, I'd take an R8 over it any day of the week. All I'm saying is that BMW can play in the $100K - $150K NA market with the right product. The M3 GTS is not that product.

Originally Posted by footie

I will not be drawn into this discussion, I know the truth regarding Audi's involvement with Lanmborghini and trust me you are well wide of the mark.

Audi sent (from what I read) at least hundred engineers and managers down to Italy to help with the development of the Gallardo. I'm not trying to marginalize Audi's contribution. All I'm saying is that when it came time to design the R8, a lot of what they learned from that Gallardo project went into it.

Originally Posted by footie

BTW, the track focused RS5 is coming and it will sell, plus it will surprise quite a few people that think Audi's only true driver's car is mid-engined.

I've been waiting patiently for the RS5. I really hope they can keep the weight down.

[swamp2]

Just like the Porsche GT3 side discussion got moved because it was getting so far OT so should the BMW vs. Audi (or even if you call it BMW&Audi). Footie, how predictable...

[footie]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

You're saying Audi has sold 10,000 R8s to date or am I misreading that? Here are the numbers Audi is reporting:

They say 900 units in 2008 and 240 in 2007. Don't get me wrong, while I love the Z8's styling, I'd take an R8 over it any day of the week. All I'm saying is that BMW can play in the $100K - $150K NA market with the right product. The M3 GTS is not that product.

I am talking world wide sales, not just the USA which don't generally view quality in the same way as the rest of the world. I know that comment might sound strange but what I mean by this is they value bang per buck more than all other and in this the R8 is an under performer and it's sales there reflects this. Else where in the world it's sales are very good.

Originally Posted by Garissimo

Audi sent (from what I read) at least hundred engineers and managers down to Italy to help with the development of the Gallardo. I'm not trying to marginalize Audi's contribution. All I'm saying is that when it came time to design the R8, a lot of what they learned from that Gallardo project went into it.

Now that comment is totally different than before and you are back pedalling. Both current Lamborghini models were developed with Audi's expertise but it's the Gallardo which had little past Lamborghini D&A in it. The fact that Audi changed so much with the R8 and clearly improved on it shows just how good Audi's expertise is, and you will see this in future Audi and Porsche models.

Originally Posted by Garissimo

I've been waiting patiently for the RS5. I really hope they can keep the weight down.

I won't discuss the finer details of the car only to say that it's a lot better than you ever thought possible and will be better than the current M3, though I doubt the price will be as competitive to it as the RS4 was.

[moog55]

this thread is starting to suck a lot