Rod bearing issue thread not common in real life?

[tdott]

Originally Posted by M3CRZY

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838

Official S65 Bearing Specification/Clearance Wiki

Anyone like to know or can anyone tell what Oil we should be using and also the RB and bolts in this post ??

She"s big post .

http://bebearings.com/

Read the background section on the first page.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by XIX

Sorry it hasn't been proven that clearance is the issue. Some people have assumed that is the case, but in reality no one knows the actual issue, only that there is one.

It's not assumed the clearance issue is wrong, the manufacture of the bearings themselves have standard practices and recommendations for clearance, BMW did not follow those recommendations from the people who made the bearing for them.

Read this page:
http://bebearings.com/Overview.html
Specifically the section on "Mahle-Clevite White Paper on Bearing Clearance Issues"

[XIX]

This is written by someone with a vested interest. Hardly equivocal proof.

[sct911]

how much to get main bearings changed? engine out job?

[XIX]

Originally Posted by sct911

how much to get main bearings changed? engine out job?

Sorry mis read that as rod bearings. Main bearing is a huge job.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by jmo

How so? Metal rubbing against other metal at up to 8,500rpm with a thin layer of oil in between. They can't last forever?

Are there pics of rod bearings from other cars at the same KM we could use as a comparison? Especially high revving V8's like the RS4?

Has anyone on this (aussie) forum had rod bearing failure?

You guys have spent too much time on bmw forums Rod bearings are typically not a wear item. They are in the s65 but that is not the norm. I've been wrenching on American v8's for 20+ years as well as participating in Corvette and Camaro forums throughout that time. Rod bearings are never a topic of conversation.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by sct911

how much to get main bearings changed? engine out job?

Lots. And yes engine out. Bedplate off, crank out. Full dissection pretty much. Not an easy undertaking. Just pulled mine apart last fall. Pics of mains and bedplate can be found here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...1298029&page=2

Post 29

[tdott]

Originally Posted by XIX

This is written by someone with a vested interest. Hardly equivocal proof.

The whitepaper was published by Clevite, the manufacture of OEM BMW bearings, BE bearings, VAC bearings, have a vested interested? They don't know how to build engines right? they just make bearings and their recommended use of those bearings mean nothing? Industry experts with years of experience building engines and have established best practices mean nothing to you also.

Link to one:
http://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/med...s/eb-40-14.pdf

Atleast we know where you stand, where your logic is (or lack thereof).

[XIX]

Originally Posted by tdott

The whitepaper was published by Clevite, the manufacture of OEM BMW bearings, BE bearings, VAC bearings, have a vested interested? They don't know how to build engines right? they just make bearings and their recommended use of those bearings mean nothing? Industry experts with years of experience building engines and have established best practices mean nothing to you also.

Link to one:
http://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/med...s/eb-40-14.pdf

Atleast we know where you stand, where your logic is (or lack thereof).

Thats right, they have a vested interest, because they sell/manufacture bearings. If the issue for instance becomes bolts, suddenly people stop replacing the bearings and only replace the bolts. I dont need to explain it to you and I dont really care what you think.

There are just as many people who think this report is bs and who think tolerance has nothing to do with it as the other way around.

I dont have a position, other than none of it is proven, but I am replacing the lot with something that has been proven to be more reliable, despite not having any greater clearance.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by XIX

mother of god!

Did you work out what the issue was ? This a very rare occurrence from what I have seen.

Can you give some background on the car, usage, oil changes etc ?

Sorry to hear mate, must have been a real bummer!!

Was pretty disappointing as I quite liked the car and was planning to supercharge it.

Full story;
Car was bought in February 2016 with one previous owner and 80k something kms on the clock. Car presented like a daily that had never been tracked.
Was serviced at the dealer according to BMW's standard service intervals.

In June I did rod bearings, test pipes, a tune and some other maintenance items. Car was a daily apart from a couple of M breakfast runs where it was driven fairly spiritedly but nothing crazy.

In December I started to hear a knocking noise, I didn't believe it was bottom end (neither did mechanic) as bearings had been done. After they ruled everything else out they pulled off the sump and found rod bearing 1 trashed. Initial plan was to rebuild with new crank and Carillo rods and supercharge.
Then complete tear down found out rod bearing was trashed as a result of main bearing 1 spinning and block was toast.

Eventually found a second hand replacement motor and swapped it in. Got the car back in July and sold it straight away with full disclosure to new owner.
Was a very expensive 18 months of ownership.

[XIX]

Originally Posted by Nugget

Was pretty disappointing as I quite liked the car and was planning to supercharge it.

Full story;
Car was bought in February 2016 with one previous owner and 80k something kms on the clock. Car presented like a daily that had never been tracked.
Was serviced at the dealer according to BMW's standard service intervals.

In June I did rod bearings, test pipes, a tune and some other maintenance items. Car was a daily apart from a couple of M breakfast runs where it was driven fairly spiritedly but nothing crazy.

In December I started to hear a knocking noise, I didn't believe it was bottom end (neither did mechanic) as bearings had been done. After they ruled everything else out they pulled off the sump and found rod bearing 1 trashed. Initial plan was to rebuild with new crank and Carillo rods and supercharge.
Then complete tear down found out rod bearing was trashed as a result of main bearing 1 spinning and block was toast.

Eventually found a second hand replacement motor and swapped it in. Got the car back in July and sold it straight away with full disclosure to new owner.
Was a very expensive 18 months of ownership.

Sounds like everyones nightmare

My only concern with these cars, is that most original owners are not enthusiasts, but just people with plenty of money. They don't understand the warm up procedure, they don't understand that BMW's service schedule is insufficient and they definately dont understand the engine's highly tuned nature and what that means in regards to keeping it at its peak and avoiding abuse. They just think they have a fast car and it can be treated like any other fast car.

What year was yours out of curiousity ? I haven't heard of there being any particular year that had a MB issue mind you?

[Nugget]

2010.
I don't think main bearings are a common issue on non supercharged cars, I guess I was just unlucky.

[dnbosiris]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

That's the thing. What if when people mention how they look and how bad they are, they're actually not? 🤔

Yup, there's a bit of confirmation bias going on i think when people get theirs replaced.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Nugget

2010.
I don't think main bearings are a common issue on non supercharged cars, I guess I was just unlucky.

This is freaking me out although as you say it's very not common.

Where you original owner? If not, maybe previous owner pushed it to hard when not hot or something.

[XIX]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

This is freaking me out although as you say it's very not common.

Where you original owner? If not, maybe previous owner pushed it to hard when not hot or something.

Its just bad luck, there is no way of knowing and it is a reality of an engine this size that revs this hard.

All high performance engines have some issue or another, or otherwise rediculous maintenance regimes.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by XIX

Its just bad luck, there is no way of knowing and it is a reality of an engine this size that revs this hard.

All high performance engines have some issue or another, or otherwise rediculous maintenance regimes.

Yeah but I mean, this is still crazy. I'm about to pay 30k for a car and there is a chance that I may need a new engine at 15k and I can't do anything about it.

Even though the chance is minimal. You only live once I guess, I still want it lol.

[XIX]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Yeah but I mean, this is still crazy. I'm about to pay 30k for a car and there is a chance that I may need a new engine at 15k and I can't do anything about it.

Even though the chance is minimal. You only live once I guess, I still want it lol.

You are lucky you get it so cheap, we pay double or triple here.

But yeh, thats the tradeoff

[LSM3]

I had my bearings done at around 110,000km and they looked perfect. We think i could have done another 100,000km with the original items. My car is supercharged as well. Care is always taken when the car is cold, ensuring that the car comes up to temperature before any real throttle applications. Oil changes at every 10,000km for the life of the car as well.

I am glad i did it anyway. Its peace of mind - i now definitely know I don't need to worry about it and can just enjoy the car, so long as i continue to maintain it in this fashion.

[M3CRZY]

Originally Posted by XIX

You are lucky you get it so cheap, we pay double or triple here.

But yeh, thats the tradeoff

Yeah our fearless leaders here don't like to see awesome cars on the road here so they put a 35% tax plus on road $ when new on them to make sure !

[jmo]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

You guys have spent too much time on bmw forums Rod bearings are typically not a wear item. They are in the s65 but that is not the norm. I've been wrenching on American v8's for 20+ years as well as participating in Corvette and Camaro forums throughout that time. Rod bearings are never a topic of conversation.

Maybe they just aren't opening up their engines to replace rod bearings based on forum hearsay?

Still waiting to hear from any aussies on the forum that have had an issue with their's. Apart from the guy who replaced his and it seemingly led to spinning a main bearing. There was another guy that posted here recently who replaced his and it led to issues too.

[jmo]

Originally Posted by dnbosiris

Yup, there's a bit of confirmation bias going on i think when people get theirs replaced.

Like spending $4k on a non-existent problem and still claiming it was worthwhile:

I had my bearings done at around 110,000km and they looked perfect. We think i could have done another 100,000km with the original items. My car is supercharged as well. Care is always taken when the car is cold, ensuring that the car comes up to temperature before any real throttle applications. Oil changes at every 10,000km for the life of the car as well.

I am glad i did it anyway. Its peace of mind - i now definitely know I don't need to worry about it and can just enjoy the car, so long as i continue to maintain it in this fashion.

[M3CRZY]

Any pics of them after 110,000k's