Car doesn't start. DME Problem. (SOLVED!)

[kaede]

Hi,

Car was in storage for the winter. Start car every couple of weeks and let it fully warm up fully. Do not have it on a battery tender, but the car does have enough battery. When i start car, it prompts me to reset date and clock, so i assume the battery ran flat. (i resetted the time and date). Tried to start the car regardless, the starter will try to fire it up, but the engine just doesn't crank up at all. When i put the key in, everything works, dash, lights, windows, radio, heated seats, rear defogger etc etc. The only thing that doesn't "work" is the engine doesn't fire up.

Tried jumping it with another vehicle and a portable jumper but same thing, car starter will fire up, but engine just won't turn over.

Pre-Storage i do have failing Throttle Body Actuators (both banks) that i am gonna be replacing when the car comes out of hibernation. Maybe they completely died and thats why the car doesnt start? Quite puzzled.

I am currently charging the car on a battery tender that i borrowed from my buddy, gonna leave that on for couple of hours and maybe it IS a flat battery and thats it.

Anyone can chime in will be awesome! Thanks!

Edit* Checked battery voltage - at a very healthy 12.6V... >_<|||

Edit again* Had the charger charged for 3 hours, tried to start again. Same thing, starter starts - but engine doesnt turn over. Weird thing is, the clock resetted again to 0:00. Do you guys think its a good idea to try to push start the car? (its a 6MT). Or should i just get it towed to the shop to check out? any idea whats wrong? Thanks!

[M-power CZ]

Originally Posted by kaede

Hi,

Car was in storage for the winter. Start car every couple of weeks and let it fully warm up fully. Do not have it on a battery tender, but the car does have enough battery. When i start car, it prompts me to reset date and clock, so i assume the battery ran flat. (i resetted the time and date). Tried to start the car regardless, the starter will try to fire it up, but the engine just doesn't crank up at all. When i put the key in, everything works, dash, lights, windows, radio, heated seats, rear defogger etc etc. The only thing that doesn't "work" is the engine doesn't fire up.

Tried jumping it with another vehicle and a portable jumper but same thing, car starter will fire up, but engine just won't turn over.

Pre-Storage i do have failing Throttle Body Actuators (both banks) that i am gonna be replacing when the car comes out of hibernation. Maybe they completely died and thats why the car doesnt start? Quite puzzled.

I am currently charging the car on a battery tender that i borrowed from my buddy, gonna leave that on for couple of hours and maybe it IS a flat battery and thats it.

Anyone can chime in will be awesome! Thanks!

Edit* Checked battery voltage - at a very healthy 12.6V... >_<|||

Edit again* Had the charger charged for 3 hours, tried to start again. Same thing, starter starts - but engine doesnt turn over. Weird thing is, the clock resetted again to 0:00. Do you guys think its a good idea to try to push start the car? (its a 6MT). Or should i just get it towed to the shop to check out? any idea whats wrong? Thanks!

I store my car for the winter too. Now my car is still sleeping, but last year, I had a similar problem. But I tried it twice and than the engine fired up. It was a problem with fuel, because when the car stands for few weeks or month, the sludge falls to the bottom of tank.
It could be a problem with fuel pump.

[kaede]

Originally Posted by M-power CZ

I store my car for the winter too. Now my car is still sleeping, but last year, I had a similar problem. But I tried it twice and than the engine fired up. It was a problem with fuel, because when the car stands for few weeks or month, the sludge falls to the bottom of tank.
It could be a problem with fuel pump.

I am hoping it won't be the fuel pump. I highly doubt it is the fuel itself, car is filled up with premium fuel (top tier gasoline) and in Canada, fuel usually is hardly the problem. I tried starting her up at least a dozen times (might be a bad idea, but i was hoping that it will miraculously revive) and still didn't fire up.

I did a and i saw someone had similar situation and it ended up being a fuse, will be checking all of them later tonight.

[M-power CZ]

Originally Posted by kaede

I am hoping it won't be the fuel pump. I highly doubt it is the fuel itself, car is filled up with premium fuel (top tier gasoline) and in Canada, fuel usually is hardly the problem. I tried starting her up at least a dozen times (might be a bad idea, but i was hoping that it will miraculously revive) and still didn't fire up.

I did a and i saw someone had similar situation and it ended up being a fuse, will be checking all of them later tonight.

The fuel pump would work fine, but could be blocked by the sludge. I'm not sure but I think that every fuel has a little sludge, this is a reason why cars have a fuel filter. And I'm not sure if it's good to storage the car with the full tank. My mechanic recommended me store the car with empty tank and before the first ride fill it by the canister. Because you mix the sludge. But I hope your car will be ok and hope you understand me, because my english is so bad

[kaede]

Originally Posted by M-power CZ

The fuel pump would work fine, but could be blocked by the sludge. I'm not sure but I think that every fuel has a little sludge, this is a reason why cars have a fuel filter. And I'm not sure if it's good to storage the car with the full tank. My mechanic recommended me store the car with empty tank and before the first ride fill it by the canister. Because you mix the sludge. But I hope your car will be ok and hope you understand me, because my english is so bad

Have stored many vehicles and have read many places that suggests storing with full tank to avoid any moisture/water condensation in the tank. Obviously not an expert but that is what i have read and went by for years.

As far as sludge in the fuel, i definitely agree that there will be impurities, but probably not what we'd associate with "sludge." Again, not an expert either on this field ALSO, your English is perfect! Thanks!!

I have read many threads on M3 not starting here on m3post, most of the time other member's car completely dies, in my case, the starter is trying to start the engine but the engine doesn't budge.

I dont think my engine seized (HOPE NOT). I don't have a ODB reader as well, so can't really pull codes. From what i have read though, other members have had success in replacing fuses and something to do with the crank sensor. Can't check the sensor but can definitely fiddle with the fuses to see if one of them went out.

Any other people that can comment? Much appreciated! Thanks!

[Chain-Blue-Lightning]

That little vermin bastard known as the rat/mouse gnawing on your wires?

[kaede]

Originally Posted by Burner

That little vermin bastard known as the rat/mouse gnawing on your wires?

Hope not, I am afraid of that and i have used some preventative measures everytime i store my vehicles (by stuffing SHIT loads of Dryer sheets in the engine bay area and changing them out every so often). Never had a rat/mouse infestation and never seen one or saw any evidence of one (feces).

Sure hope that is NOT the reason why... and IF it is, hopefully they didnt cause a LOT of costly damages.

[Mr. BMW]

When you say "the starter will try to fire it" do you mean you can hear the starter clicking but the engine does not crank?

Just cause the battery is reading 12.6V and lights and everything else is working, it doesn't mean the voltage is not dropping hard when you try to start it. Check the voltage while you are trying to start and see if its dropping a lot. I've seen a battery check out at 12+ volts and then when cranking go down to like 6-7 volts. Needless to say, I had to replace it.

Also, starting the car every couple of weeks and bringing it up to temp is not enough to keep the battery charged. You have to keep it on a tender or drive it for a while to keep it charged.

I stored my 330 every winter for 9 years and I was not able to keep it on a tender. I tried to take it out every 2 -3 weeks for about 30 or more. Last year the winter was really bad and I was not able to do that and ended up having to replace the battery in the spring. I did get 9 years out of the original battery so I guess that wasn't too bad.

I'm trying to do the same thing with my M3 but have only been able to drive it 2 times since November and the last time i took it out I got the low battery warning.

[kaede]

Originally Posted by Mr. BMW

When you say "the starter will try to fire it" do you mean you can hear the starter clicking but the engine does not crank?

Just cause the battery is reading 12.6V and lights and everything else is working, it doesn't mean the voltage is not dropping hard when you try to start it. Check the voltage while you are trying to start and see if its dropping a lot. I've seen a battery check out at 12+ volts and then when cranking go down to like 6-7 volts. Needless to say, I had to replace it.

Also, starting the car every couple of weeks and bringing it up to temp is not enough to keep the battery charged. You have to keep it on a tender or drive it for a while to keep it charged.

I stored my 330 every winter for 9 years and I was not able to keep it on a tender. I tried to take it out every 2 -3 weeks for about 30 or more. Last year the winter was really bad and I was not able to do that and ended up having to replace the battery in the spring. I did get 9 years out of the original battery so I guess that wasn't too bad.

I'm trying to do the same thing with my M3 but have only been able to drive it 2 times since November and the last time i took it out I got the low battery warning.

Thanks! Yes, i hear the starter clicking but engine does not crank. I didnt get a chance to take a look at the battery while i was starting it. But i did get a before and after voltage. Before i tried to start car the voltage was at 13V'ish, after i tried to start the car for 2x only, the voltage did drop to 12.1V. Mind you, this battery is brand new since Last December... hopefully it doesnt just DIE and can be revived

Also, if the battery is indeed just dead, wouldnt jumping the vehicle worked then? I am not sure.

Hopefully it is just the battery, i am getting it towed to the shop tomorrow. Needed to get the Throttle body actuators replaced anyways + possibly replacing the Valve Cover Gaskets since the passenger side seems to be seeping. Wonder how much a new battery costs?

[M-power CZ]

Originally Posted by kaede

Have stored many vehicles and have read many places that suggests storing with full tank to avoid any moisture/water condensation in the tank. Obviously not an expert but that is what i have read and went by for years.

As far as sludge in the fuel, i definitely agree that there will be impurities, but probably not what we'd associate with "sludge." Again, not an expert either on this field ALSO, your English is perfect! Thanks!!

I have read many threads on M3 not starting here on m3post, most of the time other member's car completely dies, in my case, the starter is trying to start the engine but the engine doesn't budge.

I dont think my engine seized (HOPE NOT). I don't have a ODB reader as well, so can't really pull codes. From what i have read though, other members have had success in replacing fuses and something to do with the crank sensor. Can't check the sensor but can definitely fiddle with the fuses to see if one of them went out.

Any other people that can comment? Much appreciated! Thanks!

Hundred people, hundred opinions.... I'd like to read many opinions from experts.... for example how to stored the car.
But this is a different topic.
I hope you will solve the problem soon. Let me know what was the problem. I cross my fingers!!

[M-power CZ]

Originally Posted by Mr. BMW

When you say "the starter will try to fire it" do you mean you can hear the starter clicking but the engine does not crank?

Just cause the battery is reading 12.6V and lights and everything else is working, it doesn't mean the voltage is not dropping hard when you try to start it. Check the voltage while you are trying to start and see if its dropping a lot. I've seen a battery check out at 12+ volts and then when cranking go down to like 6-7 volts. Needless to say, I had to replace it.

Also, starting the car every couple of weeks and bringing it up to temp is not enough to keep the battery charged. You have to keep it on a tender or drive it for a while to keep it charged.

I stored my 330 every winter for 9 years and I was not able to keep it on a tender. I tried to take it out every 2 -3 weeks for about 30 or more. Last year the winter was really bad and I was not able to do that and ended up having to replace the battery in the spring. I did get 9 years out of the original battery so I guess that wasn't too bad.

I'm trying to do the same thing with my M3 but have only been able to drive it 2 times since November and the last time i took it out I got the low battery warning.

I agree. When you only start the car and bringing it up to temperature, you don't charge the battery. You must drive the car. The second problem and more important is with the oil. When you storage the car, during few weeks the oil flow down from the engine to the oil pan. When you start the car, the oil pump doesn't have a pressure and don't press the oil into the engine. So the engine works with the minimum oil (badly oiled) and it's really not good. The oil pump has a pressure when you drive the car, so you must drive it immediately after you start it. I have this information from BMW service.

[kaede]

Originally Posted by M-power CZ

I agree. When you only start the car and bringing it up to temperature, you don't charge the battery. You must drive the car. The second problem and more important is with the oil. When you storage the car, during few weeks the oil flow down from the engine to the oil pan. When you start the car, the oil pump doesn't have a pressure and don't press the oil into the engine. So the engine works with the minimum oil (badly oiled) and it's really not good. The oil pump has a pressure when you drive the car, so you must drive it immediately after you start it. I have this information from BMW service.

Got it. Definitely won't store my cars the way I used to.

I've arranged to get it towed to a reputable Indy shop where I was gonna get my throttle body actuators replaced anyways. Will update on here to let you guys know what's wrong. Hopefully nothing costly. Cheers ! Thank you everyone!

[Beemdog]

With AGM batteries in particular (but it can happen with any battery), the battery gets to an age where it seems to charge fine on a tender (and displays normal voltage), but the ability to source any significant cold cranking current can suddenly fall off. So the car will turn on fine, the starter will engage and attempt to spin the engine, but nothing happens because the battery has high internal resistance and can't deliver current. The battery has gone south...

[kaede]

Originally Posted by Beemdog

With AGM batteries in particular (but it can happen with any battery), the battery gets to an age where it seems to charge fine on a tender (and displays normal voltage), but the ability to source any significant cold cranking current can suddenly fall off. So the car will turn on fine, the starter will engage and attempt to spin the engine, but nothing happens because the battery has high internal resistance and can't deliver current. The battery has gone south...

Hopefully its as simple as the Battery. As mentioned though, the battery is quite new (put in since December 2014), battery dies after month of two letting the car sit? Cannot be recharged to make it functional again correct? Thanks!

Car is in the shop at the moment, haven't heard anything back yet. Fingers crossed.

[kaede]

Update: My mechanic didn't have enough time to look at the cause thoroughly today, but what he told me is that there seems to be no compression, and no fuel feeding to the engine.

Any thoughts as to what went? Maybe the fuel pump relay (heard that it is a semi common problem with the m3), and or some other electrical problems causing the fuel pump not to work? Or maybe the fuel pump died? Or maybe as someone mentioned above, sludge in the oil?!?????? (seriously, dont think thats the issue, but not ruling anything out as of this moment ><!!) Thanks guys!

[M-power CZ]

Originally Posted by kaede

Update: My mechanic didn't have enough time to look at the cause thoroughly today, but what he told me is that there seems to be no compression, and no fuel feeding to the engine.

Any thoughts as to what went? Maybe the fuel pump relay (heard that it is a semi common problem with the m3), and or some other electrical problems causing the fuel pump not to work? Or maybe the fuel pump died? Or maybe as someone mentioned above, sludge in the oil?!?????? (seriously, dont think thats the issue, but not ruling anything out as of this moment ><!!) Thanks guys!

Definitely the problem it's not the sludge in oil. I spoke about the bringing the car up to temperature without the driving. This related with the oil and oil pump pressure.
I don't think so, that the fuel pump died or it's a electrical problem. I still think, that the fuel system is blocked. But may be I'm wrong.
Hope that they solve the problem today with minimal costs. I cross my fingers!!

[doogee]

Originally Posted by kaede

Update: My mechanic didn't have enough time to look at the cause thoroughly today, but what he told me is that there seems to be no compression, and no fuel feeding to the engine.

Any thoughts as to what went? Maybe the fuel pump relay (heard that it is a semi common problem with the m3), and or some other electrical problems causing the fuel pump not to work? Or maybe the fuel pump died? Or maybe as someone mentioned above, sludge in the oil?!?????? (seriously, dont think thats the issue, but not ruling anything out as of this moment ><!!) Thanks guys!

Let the mechanic deal with it.

Your story is contradictory now. Before you said the car didn't crank. If the car doesn't crank, then of course there won't be compression or fuel.

[MachinesWithSouls]

I wrote a very detailed post about how to properly store your car for winter. I've stored it now for several years without issue, and you can search the forum for my thread, but basically:

Fill the car up and use fuel stabilizer.

You really need it on a tender.

Starting the car periodically only makes it worse. You increase cold starts and wear on the motor.

These cars have alternators that only charge the battery when coasting, so try charging it for a good few days and give it a go.

[Killerfish2012]

In related news, I just changed my starter on my '09 with 125K miles. Car would sometimes not crank, until after a few tries. Would give a click, and then nothing! Very scary. Luckily this is one part that lets you know it's time without stranding you. But thanks BMW for burring it deep in there. Four hour labor job.

[osteome]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

I wrote a very detailed post about how to properly store your car for winter. I've stored it now for several years without issue, and you can search the forum for my thread, but basically:

Fill the car up and use fuel stabilizer.

You really need it on a tender.

Starting the car periodically only makes it worse. You increase cold starts and wear on the motor.

These cars have alternators that only charge the battery when coasting, so try charging it for a good few days and give it a go.

This. Stored my 2009 E93 for three winters and never had an issue with it in the spring.

[kaede]

Update!

Car is fixed and up and running! Apparently the both Throttle Body Actuators DIED off completely and it wont allow the engine to start. After replacing both banks, the car fired up no problem at all! Checked the battery and it is in good shape as well. So glad that's the only thing that's wrong, was prepared to replace them anyways after hibernation.

Sadly, according to my mechanic, there ARE traces of rodents!!! Q____Q|||

He said there were some nuts and he vacummed it up. Also left a bit of a mess on the bottom of the engine bay. Question, I have never ventured below the M3 besides changing oil, is there a belly pan that i can remove to clean and wipe down the engine bay's bottom side? Will like to have it cleaned out to my best abilities. Thanks!

[Beemdog]

Attached to the engine itself there is a metal pan that is easy to remove.

Once, while riding in a friend's hotrod show car, we started smelling an odor like burning paper. It turned out that a nest of shredded paper was down in the header collector pipes! We saw part of it drop onto the road in the rearview mirror looking like a rolling fireball.