Warped rotors

[zuggerat89]

For car they herald as a wonder on the track they dont seem to like you driving it there very much...

[thread killer]

dealer charges 2 hours for a brake job.

[skierman64]

Originally Posted by swiss_cornholio

Relax! Unless you have done something really stupid (like engaging the parking brake after a race lap), you don't have warped rotors. What you probably experience now is a rattle when braking at speeds >50mph, right? This comes from pad deposits on the disks. I had the same after a weekend on the Nurburgring.
This can be fixed at almost no cost: Go to your dealer let them sand/polish your discs. Then after a couple hundred miles of driving braking will be as smooth as before.

+100, I'd bet some big cash that you didn't warp your rotors. You just have pad transfer that melted on the rotors. The syptoms are exactly the same for pad transfer and warped rotors.

Give it a few weeks and it will eventually go away. It took a month for mine to get 100% back to normal. But I don't use my brakes too hard on the street typically.

[Dr///M3]

your first mistake was telling the dealer you took the car to the track, good luck with the repair

[mmmelbourne]

Thanks for all the comments. I'll try driving on them for a bit. The interesting part is that the cross drilled holes have a bunch of brakedust in them and you can't see through them.
BTW, no parking brake used, and one cooldown lap used. The Ferrari Enzo that lapped me did not have any problems with its brakes

[kbk_75]

Originally Posted by mmmelbourne

The Ferrari Enzo that lapped me did not have any problems with its brakes

Yeah but apparently an Enzo can't do a lap of the Nurburgring without buggering-up it's EDC!

[mmmelbourne]

Quick update:

After a week, there was no change in the vibration. I had a local exotic shop put in 4 rotors/pads. The stock pads are amazingly small, and melted. He works on Lambos/Porsche/Audi/Ferrari etc. and was AMAZED how small the pads were for such a heavy car. He was also very surprised that BMW would not cover the repair. Interestingly BMW dealers/BMW USA does NOT participate in the Better Business Bureau. My total was a bit over $1700. BMW wanted more than $1k extra.

It makes me sad that this is my last BMW after 5+. My Porsche brakes (stock) are night and day compared to the "///M."

Klaus Schmitt (M chassis development) says (about the m3) "The driver can cruise comfortably to get groceries in the city and afterwards he can drive to a racetrack and improve his personal lap times..." (BMW website)

I wonder how many laps of Nürburgring he drives...

Sorry to be so negative on our car. I am just very disappointed.

BTW, irony: One of my X-mas presents from my g-friend was the M-driving school. It will be returned...

[skierman64]

It's interesting that Car and Driver tested the E92 M3 and it set the record for the shortest stopping distance ever recorded.

There are plenty of members on this forum that have tracked their cars and had no problems with brakes. Others simply replaced the stock pads with pad that is more resistant to higher temps and had no problems.

Did you tell your dealer that you had your car on the track? If not, I have no doubt that BMW would have replace the brakes under warranty. The BMW M brand manager was asked whether tracking a car would void the warranty or free service agreement and he said as long as it wasn't a race or a timed event, then everything is covered.

Did the 335 you were following have any braking problems?

Were you doing a cool down lap after tracking your car? Were you setting the parking brake after coming in?

Just trying to get a handle on the situation here.

BTW, one week of street driving wasn't enough to get the pad transfer off the rotors, it took me 3 or 4 weeks to get back to normal. Did you keep the original rotors?

Why would you pass on the opportunity to go to the M driving school. You don't even drive your own car there. Plus you would have a opportunity to show employees of the manufacturer how easy it is to warp the rotors of an M3.

[bigjae1976]

That is such BS! I can't believe they won't cover this. All that marketing about how well the M3 performs on the track.

But I wouldn't at all be surprised if BMW of Austin did the same thing. They are also douche bags about this kind of stuff. But I think it really depends on your advisor. I've seen a buddy of mine get treated pretty well with a different advisor and BMW of Austin.

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by Dr///M3

your first mistake was telling the dealer you took the car to the track, good luck with the repair

x one million!!!!!!!!

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

That is such BS! I can't believe they won't cover this. All that marketing about how well the M3 performs on the track.

But I wouldn't at all be surprised if BMW of Austin did the same thing. They are also douche bags about this kind of stuff. But I think it really depends on your advisor. I've seen a buddy of mine get treated pretty well with a different advisor and BMW of Austin.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

Which one?

[mmmelbourne]

Originally Posted by skierman64

It's interesting that Car and Driver tested the E92 M3 and it set the record for the shortest stopping distance ever recorded.

There are plenty of members on this forum that have tracked their cars and had no problems with brakes. Others simply replaced the stock pads with pad that is more resistant to higher temps and had no problems.

Did you tell your dealer that you had your car on the track? If not, I have no doubt that BMW would have replace the brakes under warranty. The BMW M brand manager was asked whether tracking a car would void the warranty or free service agreement and he said as long as it wasn't a race or a timed event, then everything is covered.

Did the 335 you were following have any braking problems?

Were you doing a cool down lap after tracking your car? Were you setting the parking brake after coming in?

Just trying to get a handle on the situation here.

BTW, one week of street driving wasn't enough to get the pad transfer off the rotors, it took me 3 or 4 weeks to get back to normal. Did you keep the original rotors?

Why would you pass on the opportunity to go to the M driving school. You don't even drive your own car there. Plus you would have a opportunity to show employees of the manufacturer how easy it is to warp the rotors of an M3.

The m3 might have the shortest stopping distance. Just don't do it in a row. The pads were melted, and like I said they are SMALL (so they heat up so much more than the rotors.)

After they said they did not cover it. Called BMW USA Customer Relations. They are clueless (my car would have been in at the dealer still.) I made BMW USA call the dealer multiple times because they would not call each other. BMW USA says that their local rep makes the final call. (I'm willing to bet that he never saw the car.)

BMW is not a racing company. Yes they race in F1, but are just starting again in the GT class 3/2009 Sebring (where mine failed)

I Always a cool down lap, and more. No parking brake use at all. The 335 was fine as far as I know, as was the Enzo

As far as the M school. I am done with BMW. I can afford a lot of cars (and have had 3 M BMW so far) but after this experence, I'll buy an Audi R8, and drive a 911 on the street.


So much for $0 cost of ownership!

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by mmmelbourne

As far as the M school. I am done with BMW. I can afford a lot of cars (and have had 3 M BMW so far) but after this experence, I'll buy an Audi R8, and drive a 911 on the street.

So much for $0 cost of ownership!

We all know that the $0 cost of ownership a BIG crock of sh1t. What about tires? I'm sure a high % of BMWs go through a set of tires in the first 50k.

I wouldn't let this bother you too much, what's done is done. I'd try a different service advisor or dealer next time.

[badfish]

A lot of people point out the weakness being the brakes though some people completely disagree. You did spend quite a bit to replace the pads and rotors. If you have the money, which is sounds like you do, and you read the other threads and saw the videos about the brakes being inadequate, you should have put that $1700 into a BBK. I understand the dealership and maybe BMW did not take care of you very well but a little bit of research possibly would have curtailed your bad experience.

[Mickb]

Am I the only one here who thinks its utterly ridiculous to expect BMW to pick up the tab for this?

F|irstly, what if someone were to track their car every single day? Are you saying that BMW should give you the maintenance coverage of a race team for all consumables? At that rate you could expect 50-100 pad changes FOC per year?

Secondly, you went out on a track with ROAD pads and are surprised that they melted?

FWIW I think that a 30 minute stint is too much for a road car on a track. I would limit stints to 20 mins maximum. Also a single cooldown lap is possibly not enough after 30 minutes caning it.

Also, I suspect the rotors werent warped at all and some proper cleaning would have sorted your problem.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml

Incicdentally, did you check your pads at all during the day or did you drive them even after there was no effective pad material left? Because that would fuck up your rotors.

Finally, comments about the nurburgring are not valid here. Its not a particularly hard circuit on brakes.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by Mickb

Am I the only one here who thinks its utterly ridiculous to expect BMW to pick up the tab for this?

F|irstly, what if someone were to track their car every single day? Are you saying that BMW should give you the maintenance coverage of a race team for all consumables? At that rate you could expect 50-100 pad changes FOC per year?

Secondly, you went out on a track with ROAD pads and are surprised that they melted?

FWIW I think that a 30 minute stint is too much for a road car on a track. I would limit stints to 20 mins maximum. Also a single cooldown lap is possibly not enough after 30 minutes caning it.

Also, I suspect the rotors werent warped at all and some proper cleaning would have sorted your problem.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml

Incicdentally, did you check your pads at all during the day or did you drive them even after there was no effective pad material left? Because that would fuck up your rotors.

Finally, comments about the nurburgring are not valid here. Its not a particularly hard circuit on brakes.

When I go lapping I usually expect to use about $1500 of consumables per 3 hour trackday.That is for brakes,tires and fuel and the other stuff that is not covered under warranty.To expect BMW to pay for a consumable when you are having fun on track is quite unrelistic.BMW Canada does not pay for brakes as part of the service even in normal road use.

[Radiation Joe]

Mickb, Gearhead,

Thanks for the oasis of logic and integrity in the sea of me-ness.

If I killed my brakes on track, I'd be embarrassed to ask the dealer to replace them. If I wore them a bit prematurely due to track use, I wouldn't say no if they offered to replace them under the service contract.

[aus]

Did you consider a BBK since you were going to shell out some $$$ anyway?

[mmmelbourne]

My reason for being disappointed at BMW was that they say that brakes(rotors/pads) are covered by their $0 maintenance program. If the car is used competitively, it is excluded. I don't expect them to pay for my tires, etc.

I was NOT racing or competing. A M car should be able to handle 20 mins of track time. BMW should either pay for it or exclude it from their M line. But they will not, it looks so good in advertising!

My Porsche handles the same track for 40+ min at a time (I am tired and have to go in before the brakes fade.) If I cook the brakes, I would not even complain to Porsche-they do not cover wear and tear items...

As to why not spend $ on a big brake kit...this is going to be my last BMW. I have not dealt with more arrogant and poorly managed dealers other than at MB. After 6+ BMWs in the last 10 years, I am done.

[urbo73]

The truth is that the M3's cooling of the brakes is its huge minus re. brake fade. The cooling system plain sucks. Rotors and calipers are good. Don't get fooled into the whole single-piston vs muti-piston. That's not the issue with the M3's brakes. Fluid is fluid and pads are pads. Not the best, but cheap to replace for track use. But cooling is just bad design IMHO. Porsche brakes are good stock. Can't argue with that. But a Porsche is more of a driver's car. Less compromise - brakes, steerting, transmission, etc. M cars are more of a compromise between luxury/comfort/practicality/sport. Despite advertising, neither are race cars.

[3XTR3M3]

Originally Posted by mmmelbourne

My reason for being disappointed at BMW was that they say that brakes(rotors/pads) are covered by their $0 maintenance program. If the car is used competitively, it is excluded. I don't expect them to pay for my tires, etc.

I was NOT racing or competing. A M car should be able to handle 20 mins of track time. BMW should either pay for it or exclude it from their M line. But they will not, it looks so good in advertising!

My Porsche handles the same track for 40+ min at a time (I am tired and have to go in before the brakes fade.) If I cook the brakes, I would not even complain to Porsche-they do not cover wear and tear items...

As to why not spend $ on a big brake kit...this is going to be my last BMW. I have not dealt with more arrogant and poorly managed dealers other than at MB. After 6+ BMWs in the last 10 years, I am done.

You're right, it would be totally awesome if they covered your time on a track. But its a business.

you DROVE on a track, you didnt COMPETE, you didnt RACE... yada yada... we all know what happens on a track and BMW does as well.

no where in this thread did you mention the lack of common sense in telling them you tracked the car as being the major factor in the matter.
yea its really fucked up that you had to go out of pocket, I'd be pissed. But I sure as hell wouldnt have told the dealer I was trackin the car, and if i did, Id be more pissed at myself about it then BMW.

just sayin