BMW DCT 750 ft/lbs. Torque Clutch Package

[SSPKris]

BMW 750+ Ft/lbs.Torque Clutch Package (14 plate)
All NEW 14 Plate High Performance Clutch

http://www.sspperformance.com/featur...h-package.html

The BMW 750+ ft/lbs. clutch disc package is our newest line up for the GS7D36SG transmission. Specifically engineered using the latest materials, and 14 plate clutch technology. SSP's new friction discs have been dyno proven time and time gain to be the best clutch on the market. Our new friction plate design requires a minimal break in period, thus minimizing down time. SSP has engineered these clutch discs for smooth, street like engagement. You will not have to sacrifice reliability for drive ability.

14 Plate High Performance Clutch - Designed to fit OEM Clutch Basket

Contents:
7 x Large Heavy Duty Friction Plates
7 x Small Heavy Duty Friction Plates
6 x Large Heavy Duty Steel Plates Precision Ground
6 x Small Heavy Duty Steel Plates Precision Ground

After installation of this product, the transmission will need to go thru a relearning procedure.

*Also compatible with the 2008-15 M3,135i, 335iS, F10 M5, and F12/3 M6 with the DCT transmission*




SSP

[SSPKris]

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SSP

[Hujan]

I understand these were designed to not slip even under 750 ft/lbs. of torque, but how do these hold up to the heat and stresses from a track environment? Given the relatively low-torque nature of this platform (even with forced induction), I believe many would be interested in clutches that are highly durable and can take track abuse moreso than a clutch pack that only excels at the dragstrip. (Not saying this is the case with your product; that is why I am asking.)

[SSPKris]

Originally Posted by Hujan

I understand these were designed to not slip even under 750 ft/lbs. of torque, but how do these hold up to the heat and stresses from a track environment? Given the relatively low-torque nature of this platform (even with forced induction), I believe many would be interested in clutches that are highly durable and can take track abuse moreso than a clutch pack that only excels at the dragstrip. (Not saying this is the case with your product; that is why I am asking.)

This particular clutch is designed for performance up to 750 ft/lbs. Lower torque loads will not affect the performance of this clutch.

What affects the performance of this clutch is extreme heat that occurs during road racing. All DCT transmission have the same issue, "they have a hard time shedding heat". If you are to road race your DCT without issues, you will need a heavy duty transmission cooler. A transmission cooler will let you avoid the dreaded slow down messages, and at the same time will eliminate premature wearing of the clutch friction plates.

The DCT will perform at its best between 180-220F. Anything outside of these ranges can damage the transmission under severe driving conditions. For example, if the transmission is not up to optimal temperature (160F) it can allow extreme clutch slippage under load. If the transmission is above (220F), the friction plates can prematurely start to delaminate.

[SJL Custom]

The biggest issue with this platform is the fact that the factory programming introduces slip to produce a smoother shift from one gear to another. There is even a .6 bar of hydraulic pressure on the unoperated clutch while the car is being driven. All this slip causes heat. Heat causes shut down of the transmission. This is why everyone should be stressed to make sure they are driving with the highest clamping force available at all times. Its not new knowledge that driving in sport mode or the highest drivelogic setting will in fact prolong the life of not only BMW DCT or SMG trans, but all DTC style transmissions. If you are tracking your car and not noticing slip under full load but are experiencing heat issues, then the SSP trans cooler package will definitely remove that issue all together.

[Mrbig]

How much ? And anyone try it ?

[SJL Custom]

Originally Posted by Mrbig

How much ? And anyone try it ?

Try what? Clutch or cooler?

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by SJL Custom

The biggest issue with this platform is the fact that the factory programming introduces slip to produce a smoother shift from one gear to another. There is even a .6 bar of hydraulic pressure on the unoperated clutch while the car is being driven. All this slip causes heat. Heat causes shut down of the transmission. This is why everyone should be stressed to make sure they are driving with the highest clamping force available at all times. Its not new knowledge that driving in sport mode or the highest drivelogic setting will in fact prolong the life of not only BMW DCT or SMG trans, but all DTC style transmissions. If you are tracking your car and not noticing slip under full load but are experiencing heat issues, then the SSP trans cooler package will definitely remove that issue all together.

Are you sure you meant "highest drivelogic setting" in the second of those two boldface sentences?

My understanding is that the higher drivelogic settings (i.e., 5 bars versus 1 bar) result in more slippage and thus (as you say) more heat and therefore more clutch wear. If the higher setting results in more slippage, then you'd want to drive in the lowest drivelogic setting (i.e., 1 bar) if your goal was to prolong the life of the DCT transmission. No?

[Shredicus]

Originally Posted by Hujan

Are you sure you meant "highest drivelogic setting" in the second of those two boldface sentences?

My understanding is that the higher drivelogic settings (i.e., 5 bars versus 1 bar) result in more slippage and thus (as you say) more heat and therefore more clutch wear. If the higher setting results in more slippage, then you'd want to drive in the lowest drivelogic setting (i.e., 1 bar) if your goal was to prolong the life of the DCT transmission. No?

It is my understanding that the lower the drive logic the smoother the shifts will be hence more slip to achieve that. The D5 shifts are very abrupt.

[SJL Custom]

Originally Posted by Hujan

Are you sure you meant "highest drivelogic setting" in the second of those two boldface sentences?

My understanding is that the higher drivelogic settings (i.e., 5 bars versus 1 bar) result in more slippage and thus (as you say) more heat and therefore more clutch wear. If the higher setting results in more slippage, then you'd want to drive in the lowest drivelogic setting (i.e., 1 bar) if your goal was to prolong the life of the DCT transmission. No?

The more bars, the less slip on the clutch. This is why the shifts become firmer when more bars are used. This also reduces the heat generated. If you cant handle the harshness of the shifts, youre driving the wrong car for the wrong reasons.

[SJL Custom]

If you track your car or drive aggressively, you should only be driving in D5 or with traction off and D6. Not only will you yield better lap times but youll also notice a drop in trans AND coolant temps. Remember, the trans has two coolers. One that relies on the coolant system and the other that relies on a air/oil passive radiator. If your trans temps get high, it can also be quite taxing on your coolant temps as well.

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by Shredicus

It is my understanding that the lower the drive logic the smoother the shifts will be hence more slip to achieve that. The D5 shifts are very abrupt.

Originally Posted by SJL Custom

The more bars, the less slip on the clutch. This is why the shifts become firmer when more bars are used. This also reduces the heat generated. If you cant handle the harshness of the shifts, youre driving the wrong car for the wrong reasons.

Thanks for the clarification. I drive in D5 all the time because I enjoy the feel, but assumed that I was sacrificing longevity of the trans in the process. I'm really glad to know that I'm actually increasing the longevity.

SJL, I'm not sure if the last part of your post was directed at me or not. If so, it was as unwarranted as it was presumptive.

[SJL Custom]

Originally Posted by Hujan

Thanks for the clarification. I drive in D5 all the time because I enjoy the feel, but assumed that I was sacrificing longevity of the trans in the process. I'm really glad to know that I'm actually increasing the longevity.

SJL, I'm not sure if the last part of your post was directed at me or not. If so, it was as unwarranted as it was presumptive.

Wasn't directed towards anyone in particular. I just find that a lot of guys complain about how the dct shifts in the higher drivelogic settings. Like its too aggressive lol. I look at those guys and say they should have just bought an auto or even a different car all together.

[Mfanatik]

Is this the same clutch setup DLSJ5 used?

BTW if your driving in "D" mode on the track, and have a DCT....might as well get someone to drive the car for you too. At least slap it in S mode.

[swifty]

Originally Posted by SJL Custom

If you track your car or drive aggressively, you should only be driving in D5 or with traction off and D6. Not only will you yield better lap times but youll also notice a drop in trans AND coolant temps. Remember, the trans has two coolers. One that relies on the coolant system and the other that relies on a air/oil passive radiator. If your trans temps get high, it can also be quite taxing on your coolant temps as well.

The info provided here is defn valuable. In summer, I drive in S3 during warm up (oil temp bar/gauge) and then m mode in s4, occasionally in S5 as I assumed it was more harmful to do so.

In winter I stay at s3 all the time to prevent rev matching as it seems to hinder control in the snow and all. However, if what you have stated is true I defn need to learn to drive in s4 or s5 going forward.

[SJL Custom]

I have countless hours of datalogging related to these cars for performance reference going towards product design and staging. I have full real time datalogging capabilities for the BMW DCT as well. I can see everything the trans is programmed to do. Driving a DCT in a lower Drivelogic setting is like feathering the crap out of the clutch on a manual gearbox to make for smoother, less jerky response and engagement. Remember, a DCT is essentially a manual gearbox with a computer actuated manual multiplate clutch assembly.

[bdaddylo]

Originally Posted by SJL Custom

I have countless hours of datalogging related to these cars for performance reference going towards product design and staging. I have full real time datalogging capabilities for the BMW DCT as well. I can see everything the trans is programmed to do. Driving a DCT in a lower Drivelogic setting is like feathering the crap out of the clutch on a manual gearbox to make for smoother, less jerky response and engagement. Remember, a DCT is essentially a manual gearbox with a computer actuated manual multiplate clutch assembly.

Please share your data with us to support your claims that driving in D5/D6 reduces operating temps of the DCT and coolant. I've never encountered this on the streets or track.

[swifty]

Originally Posted by SSPKris

The DCT will perform at its best between 180-220F. Anything outside of these ranges can damage the transmission under severe driving conditions. For example, if the transmission is not up to optimal temperature (160F) it can allow extreme clutch slippage under load. If the transmission is above (220F), the friction plates can prematurely start to delaminate.

What exactly does this mean. Are we to drive at a lower drivelogic till the engine is warmed up? I'm assuming we should go by the oil gauge since there is nothing that will tell us if the tranny is at optimal level.

Originally Posted by SJL Custom

I have countless hours of datalogging related to these cars for performance reference going towards product design and staging. I have full real time datalogging capabilities for the BMW DCT as well. I can see everything the trans is programmed to do. Driving a DCT in a lower Drivelogic setting is like feathering the crap out of the clutch on a manual gearbox to make for smoother, less jerky response and engagement. Remember, a DCT is essentially a manual gearbox with a computer actuated manual multiplate clutch assembly.

Will appreciate more data on this. Does it make a difference if it is D5 or S5?

[SJL Custom]

Originally Posted by swifty

What exactly does this mean. Are we to drive at a lower drivelogic till the engine is warmed up? I'm assuming we should go by the oil gauge since there is nothing that will tell us if the tranny is at optimal level.



Will appreciate more data on this. Does it make a difference if it is D5 or S5?

These statements basically are saying that it is unadvised to drive your car aggressively before everything (Engine and Trans) is up to proper operating temperature. Just as the DME does not allow you to rev the engine a high speeds before its warmed up, the same should be followed when driving aggressively with the trans cold. The liquid trans cooler also acts as a heat exchanger to help bring the trans temperatures up quicker. As the cooling system warms up, it also heats the trans fluids. Only when the capacity of the liquid heat exchanger is insufficient (trans temps too high), then a internal thermostat starts pumping the trans fluid to the passive air cooler located at the front to help assist trans cooling efforts.

The only thing that is changed between the D and S modes are gear shift points. S mode will hold on to a selected gear longer both when accelerating and decelerating. It uses the engine as a brake when off throttle and holds the gear longer into the power band before shifting. S mode is definitely engineered and programmed more towards being used in a race or track scenario where the use of only certain gears are used and held longer. Keep in mind that D and S modes are only available in automatic modes. If in M mode, only the clamping pressures of the Drivelogic program are adhered to. Shift points etc are strictly up the the drivers input.

[SSPKris]

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[8600RPM]

Clearly you have no m3. S mode is manual mode in an m3. S mode is different and is sport mode in an auto non m3. So clearly you have no experience in this car

OTE=SJL Custom;17202008]These statements basically are saying that it is unadvised to drive your car aggressively before everything (Engine and Trans) is up to proper operating temperature. Just as the DME does not allow you to rev the engine a high speeds before its warmed up, the same should be followed when driving aggressively with the trans cold. The liquid trans cooler also acts as a heat exchanger to help bring the trans temperatures up quicker. As the cooling system warms up, it also heats the trans fluids. Only when the capacity of the liquid heat exchanger is insufficient (trans temps too high), then a internal thermostat starts pumping the trans fluid to the passive air cooler located at the front to help assist trans cooling efforts.

The only thing that is changed between the D and S modes are gear shift points. S mode will hold on to a selected gear longer both when accelerating and decelerating. It uses the engine as a brake when off throttle and holds the gear longer into the power band before shifting. S mode is definitely engineered and programmed more towards being used in a race or track scenario where the use of only certain gears are used and held longer. Keep in mind that D and S modes are only available in automatic modes. If in M mode, only the clamping pressures of the Drivelogic program are adhered to. Shift points etc are strictly up the the drivers input.[/QUOTE]

[SSPKris]

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