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06-20-2007, 09:03 PM | #45 |
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Imagine how fast the Z Coupes would be with a lighter, more powerful and quicker revving V8 + a 7 speed sequential box??
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06-20-2007, 09:05 PM | #46 | |
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This really gets lost on people. The internal guts of the S65 is really light and the accessories are either electric or on a clutch......this allows the engine to go through the powerband much faster than say the S62 (E39 M5 engine) or a big American V8. Light is fast.
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06-20-2007, 09:18 PM | #47 | |
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2) But at an M3 price...starting at $57K. People WILL be cross shopping GT-R's and M3's and CTS-V's. And C63's. |
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06-20-2007, 10:03 PM | #48 | |
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We aren't going to start talking about race cars are we? Does anyone believe a Cobalt SS race car has anything to do with the street car? The Caddy race cars are dedicated race cars. Stock for stock the M3 is a much better track car. I believe the GTRs are $80K? $23K is a big jump..... Oh enjoy this vid (nothing to do with this thread) No the viper didn’t hit the brakes, it is a reflection….This was a 10 second Viper…..a full 2 seconds quicker than my M6 at the quartermile…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxZVhLnawNU
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06-20-2007, 10:21 PM | #49 |
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Jeeez! Get real, people. This infighting is pointless. A modded 335i and an E92 M3 will both be great cars. There will always be cars with more power for the dollar or this and that, but the point is that whatever car you buy you can enjoy to the fullest. Whether a chipped 335i (or a CTS-V) makes more torque than an M3 means nothing to me. If I was buying a race car, yes it would. American cars are getting better, but I still think the German's understand a thing or two that the US makers don't.
The M3 is and always has been a relatively mainstream, but somewhat exclusive model that performs near the top of its class, but is very well rounded. You can commute through urban traffic, take it on trips, or run Nurbugring in it. Specs fail to capture the whole picture. Dry sump lube? What the fu*k does that have to do with the purpose of this car? It has two sumps and will not have oil starvation on typical track days, so I think that's good enough.
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06-21-2007, 05:23 AM | #50 | |
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06-21-2007, 06:59 AM | #51 | |
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The rpm vs. hp graph is informative, but the third dimension is time. How fast the engine will go through its rev range is a function of not only the engine performance characteristics but also of other variables such as transmission efficiency and response (someone was pointing out drive train inertia issues), overall weight, grip, suspension dynamics, etc. So comparing rpm-hp graphs for two engines alone can be misleading. Which brings me to a rather simple observation: not a single person on this forum has actually experienced the V8 M3 engine in an M3, so what's all the fuss about? How can anyone say it is better than this or that without driving the damn car? As far as I know, the engine/car has not even been evaluated by independent analysts, so we have very little to go on. Also, I don't think that it really matters that the M3 will be too heavy and optioned out for the track UNLESS you are interested in competing and winning on the track. If that’s what you really care about, I doubt that you’d be buying a production M3 to begin with. If you are like me, and just want to have some weekend fun on the track, then who cares if it is not as light as it can be and so on. It boils down to this: would one have fun pushing this car around the track or not? I can't answer that since I haven't tried, but my guess is that one would! Regards, |
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06-21-2007, 08:38 AM | #52 | |
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The M3 IS a road car, albeit a high performance one, marketed to people who demand a host of non-essential extras in their cars, and who will never go near a track or any of the car's performance limits (though some of them will still brag about these things ) If you are not one of these people, fine. But it does not change the fact that you will be in the minority. |
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06-21-2007, 09:23 AM | #53 |
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I still think the base US MSRP will be $65 K.
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06-21-2007, 09:50 AM | #54 | |
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06-21-2007, 09:54 AM | #55 | |
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On S54: I heard many horror stories about the weak engine from my friends working at BMW service dept., plus no way a high rev M engine has an over bore configuration (long stroke engine???) ON 335i beating E92M3: Please people, do not just look only at HP/trq dyno number...there are many other factors powerband, final diff ratio (torque multiplication), and many more. Make me wonder some people thinks they know more than the engineers at BMW, but they forget they get misled by the marketing campaign. |
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06-21-2007, 11:07 AM | #56 | |
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Even Porsche is finding it a challenge to compete with the tube frame cars. They really do not belong in the same class with cars based on production vehicles. |
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06-21-2007, 01:09 PM | #57 | |
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I have since found a Nordschliefe time of 8:19 for the current CTS-V, which is faster than the time for the e46 M3. So, yes, bottom line, I believe the next gen CTS-V is fully capable of running with and probably humiliating the next gen M3 on a track due to its huge HP advantage. |
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06-21-2007, 01:19 PM | #58 | |
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06-21-2007, 01:38 PM | #60 | |
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06-21-2007, 01:40 PM | #61 | |
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By the way, what is the source for the 8:19 time you found? That is pretty quick! |
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06-21-2007, 03:17 PM | #62 | |
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06-21-2007, 03:19 PM | #63 | |
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06-21-2007, 03:28 PM | #64 | |
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06-21-2007, 03:29 PM | #65 | |
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I have driven one understeering pig with snap oversteer on throttle tip in.
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06-21-2007, 03:46 PM | #66 |
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Over/under square
S54 has 91mm bore x 87mm stroke, so oversquare by a factor of 1.05:1. The S65 is 92 x 75.2, or a ratio of 1.22:1, so much more oversquare.
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