C63 Black

[Rob@StrasseWheels]

God this C63 BS is drop dead gorgeous!

[SCCAForums.com]

Originally Posted by Mprofiler

What do you mean by choice? The BS just seems more practical for everyday driving when not using it on a track. Personally, I would like to carry more than one friend. I mean this BS seems to be targeting gt3's and the M3 gts without the wing or with the wing if you prefer to add it in... It can be track tool when you want it to be, but also have room for 3 others.

Can you show a link mentioning the BS has the option to add in the rear seats?

That'd be great, but due to the last '63 Black Series in '08 not having them... wasn't sure, based on pics I've seen online, there are none there.

Thanks,
Dave

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by driftster

Except you probably will be able to, considering the m3 is competative with the CLK63 BS, of which has a better power to weight and more R&D going into it's construction...

Funny, i wonder how much of a difference there will be between a 60k BMW on optioned tires....and a 130,000 dollar "racing benz"

Why not compare it to the $130 000, less available, less accomplished M3 that already exists then negative Nancy???

[Mprofiler]

Originally Posted by SCCAForums.com

Can you show a link mentioning the BS has the option to add in the rear seats?

That'd be great, but due to the last '63 Black Series in '08 not having them... wasn't sure, based on pics I've seen online, there are none there.

Thanks,
Dave

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/23/2...led-in-all-it/

Scroll down for the press release or you could visit www.mercedes-amg.com

"The C63 AMG Coupe Black Series is also available as a four-seater incorporating the AMG sports seats familiar from the C63 AMG Coupe, with individual seats for the rear."

Hope this clears things up.

[Cdnrockies]

Woohoo!

Only took 2 bottles of wine and the wife is on board with this for a new daily driver...lol.

[AngelinIsRich08]

Originally Posted by stingray23

In that price range I'd go for an R8 or slightly used Lamborghini or Ferrari. Not a Porsche.

[driftster]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

Why not compare it to the $130 000, less available, less accomplished M3 that already exists then negative Nancy???

Why? Because considering the standard 59,000 M3 with the 3,000 comp package can outpace the CLK BS, i think that would be an extraordinarily unfair competition between the BMW and the benz.....as the M3 GTS runs tit for tat with the CLK DTM

[devo]

Originally Posted by Mprofiler

What do you mean by choice? The BS just seems more practical for everyday driving when not using it on a track. Personally, I would like to carry more than one friend. I mean this BS seems to be targeting gt3's and the M3 gts without the wing or with the wing if you prefer to add it in... It can be track tool when you want it to be, but also have room for 3 others.

I mean that most sports cars in this price point are two seaters by the manufacturer's choice. There is no wrong choice here, but like anything in life there are compromises. Most buyers in this segment looking for a lighter weight sports car don't want rear seats.

I dig this car as I said above, but I don't know that I believe it'll be the track tool the GT3 is as the BS weighs a bit too much for repeated track abuse, imo. I am sure the Ring time will be sub 7:45 but I am talking about repeated use. Yeah, the engine is wicked but again I think I would prefer the M3 or GT3 power characteristics. I haven't driven any BS but do own a GT3. I also don't know enough about MB's single clutch transmission but I didn't think it compared to any dual clutch by BMW or Porsche.

Yeah as a DD it would be the bomb. If I wouldn't go into cardiac arrest after spending another $120k +/- on a car, I might consider one for that duty.

[devo]

Originally Posted by AngelinIsRich08

In that price range I'd go for an R8 or slightly used Lamborghini or Ferrari. Not a Porsche.

All great cars, but the maintenance costs for the latter two are typically very high; just not a fan of the R8.

[Mprofiler]

Originally Posted by devo

I mean that most sports cars in this price point are two seaters by the manufacturer's choice. There is no wrong choice here, but like anything in life there are compromises. Most buyers in this segment looking for a lighter weight sports car don't want rear seats.

I dig this car as I said above, but I don't know that I believe it'll be the track tool the GT3 is as the BS weighs a bit too much for repeated track abuse, imo. I am sure the Ring time will be sub 7:45 but I am talking about repeated use. Yeah, the engine is wicked but again I think I would prefer the M3 or GT3 power characteristics. I haven't driven any BS but do own a GT3. I also don't know enough about MB's single clutch transmission but I didn't think it compared to any dual clutch by BMW or Porsche.

Yeah as a DD it would be the bomb. If I wouldn't go into cardiac arrest after spending another $120k +/- on a car, I might consider one for that duty.

We'll see how it does on the track soon enough. I'm sure AMG engineers made sure it can handle repeated track use. This car has a lot of improvements over the standard c63, bigger brakes, upgraded radiators, active rear cooling for the diff etc... Even the standard c63 is adequate for track use except for the smaller brakes and less efficient cooling. If this BS is fun to drive and does decent track times then it will be a good alternative in my book.

[devo]

Originally Posted by Mprofiler

We'll see how it does on the track soon enough. I'm sure AMG engineers made sure it can handle repeated track use. This car has a lot of improvements over the standard c63, bigger brakes, upgraded radiators, active rear cooling for the diff etc... Even the standard c63 is adequate for track use except for the smaller brakes and less efficient cooling.

Ehh... the car is close to 3800 lbs. It may do very well at the track, but it's not a track car nor should it be considered one.

[devo]

Originally Posted by John Tanglewood

Bc not everyone has a hard-on for a freaking Porsche.

Now that is just non-sense!

[Mprofiler]

Originally Posted by devo

Ehh... the car is close to 3800 lbs. It may do very well at the track, but it's not a track car nor should it be considered one.

So your definition of a track car is based on weight? Even if the car is track capable? The M3 GTS is about 200 lbs lighter so is that a track car or is that too heavy? If the BS is track capable and puts up similar times to other "light weight track cars" then why can't it be an alternative?

If we go solely by weight then I see the 4.0 gtrs as being the real track car instead of just a regular gt3...

[driftster]

Originally Posted by Mprofiler

We'll see how it does on the track soon enough. I'm sure AMG engineers made sure it can handle repeated track use. This car has a lot of improvements over the standard c63, bigger brakes, upgraded radiators, active rear cooling for the diff etc... Even the standard c63 is adequate for track use except for the smaller brakes and less efficient cooling. If this BS is fun to drive and does decent track times then it will be a good alternative in my book.

Obviously not, or the track pack wouldn't include an improved oil cooler....

And saying a car is adequate for the track, but has bad brakes and ineffective cooling..Means it's not adequate for the track...

[Mprofiler]

Originally Posted by driftster

Obviously not, or the track pack wouldn't include an improved oil cooler....

And saying a car is adequate for the track, but has bad brakes and ineffective cooling..Means it's not adequate for the track...

"AMG has two special packages to offer for even further enhanced dynamics. The AMG Track package comprises 255/35 R 19 front and 285/30 R 19 rear sports tires from Dunlop. They were developed exclusively for the C63 AMG Coupé Black Series and dramatically increase grip. Active cooling on the rear-axle drive unit improves performance under tough race-track conditions. Its cooling module is located in front of the diffuser insert in the rear valance for optimum airflow."

It's not an oil cooler. There is no reference to an oil cooler... Go reread the press release.

This is from the top section of the press release (standard on a BS):

"The optimized engine oil cooling delivers more performance even under harsh race-track conditions. With the aid of components from the SLS AMG, engineers added 50 percent to the cooling surface of the oil cooler. Power transmission is handled by the highly acclaimed, innovative AMG SPEEDSHIFT MCT 7-speed sports gearbox. Four transmission modes, the rev-matching function and RACE START deliver maximum driving fun and a high degree of versatility. In the "Sport plus" and "Manual" modes gear shift takes a mere 100 milliseconds."

I also never said the track package is standard on a c63.... As for the ineffective brakes, you can still track a regular C63, it just wont' hold up as long if you plan to track for a long duration. This does not apply to the BS anyways.

You are confused heavily my friend.

[devo]

Originally Posted by Mprofiler

So your definition of a track car is based on weight? Even if the car is track capable? The M3 GTS is about 200 lbs lighter so is that a track car or is that too heavy? If the BS is track capable and puts up similar times to other "light weight track cars" then why can't it be an alternative?

If we go solely by weight then I see the 4.0 gtrs as being the real track car instead of just a regular gt3...

No need to get all huffy.

Um... yeah. Of course, the RS is more of a track car than a GT3 is. The weight difference is really about 20 lbs. or less (not several hundred) if one elects to option the same carbon buckets when speccing the GT3. The 4.0L RS weighs in about another 30-40lbs less. With 500 ponies, yeah it is quite the car @ $200K. Even with the standard sport seats the delta is about 45 and 70 lbs, respectively. Either way the RS, 4.0 or not, is still more of a track ready car than a GT3. Keep in mind that GT3s and RSs are street cars which happen to be fairly track ready; even the 4.0.

As I already posted I believe the MB will run very fast lap times. I also believe that its weight will pay a penalty over extended track duty, hence my aforementioned post. Let me put it this way. If you drove a GT3/RS vs a BS for say 20k miles of mixed street track duty (with a lot of those miles being hard track miles) I think it is fair to say that the GT3/RS will fare much better.

To answer your question, no I don't define a track car solely by weight. Yes weight is a big consideration however. Running one lap at close to 7:40 and repeated it a few times is one thing. Doing mixed mileage like that over 15k miles is another. Weight is a killer. Which bring me to the next issue: which is more fun. I don't it is the heavier car.

Signed not confused.

[Mprofiler]

Originally Posted by devo

Um... yeah. Of course, the RS is more of a track car than a GT3 is. The weight difference is really about 20 lbs. or less (not several hundred) if one elects to option the same carbon buckets when speccing the GT3. Even with the standard sport seats the delta is about 45 lbs. Either way the RS is still more of a track ready car than a GT3. Keep in mind that GT3s and RSs are street cars which happen to be fairly track ready.

As I already posted I believe the MB will run very fast lap times. I also believe that its weight will pay a penalty over extended track duty, hence my aforementioned post. Let me put it this way. If you drove a GT3/RS vs a BS for say 20k miles of mixed street track duty (with a lot of those miles being hard track miles) I think it is fair to say that the GT3/RS will fare much better.

To answer your question, no I don't define a track car solely by weight. Yes weight is a big consideration however. Running one lap at close to 7:40 and repeated it a few times is one thing. Doing that over 15k miles is another. Weight is a killer. Which bring me to the next issue: which is more fun. I don't it is the heavier car.

RS and a regular GT3 to me are track cars, one just happens to be faster and lighter, but both can serve as track tools.

I'm not sure how you can come to a conclusion that just because the BS weighs more then a gt3 that it won't be as reliable on the track? You really think after a few laps that this BS will have some sort of failure due to it's weight? Bold claim you have... do you have any statistics to back it up? Btw, do you think the M3 GTS is a track car or not? Also, no reviewers has driven the BS yet so the "fun factor" point is irrelevant for now. The clk BS was considered by reviewers to be a fun to drive. I don't see why this car would be different.

[Mprofiler]

Originally Posted by devo

Quoting MBs sales pitch doesn't really prove all that much. I wasn't arguing many of those points anyway. Oh, and its "anyway"; no "s" at the end.

I don't think I was replying to you . Yes a slight typo =(. Or are you drifter? LOL...

I don't think it's really a sales pitch either when they mention a bigger oil cooler and such... They are just stating what's been improved on the car to handle track conditions.

[devo]

Originally Posted by Mprofiler

RS and a regular GT3 to me are track cars, one just happens to be faster and lighter, but both can serve as track tools.

I'm not sure how you can come to a conclusion that just because the BS weighs more then a gt3 that it won't be as reliable on the track? You really think after a few laps that this BS will have some sort of failure due to it's weight? Bold claim you have... do you have any statistics to back it up? Btw, do you think the M3 GTS is a track car or not? Also, no reviewers has driven the BS yet so the "fun factor" point is irrelevant for now. The clk BS was considered by reviewers to be a fun to drive. I don't see why this car would be different.

It is an opinion. There is no need to back it up. It doesn't just weigh more, it weighs 700 lbs more.

[Mprofiler]

Originally Posted by devo

It is an opinion. There is no need to back it up. It doesn't just weigh more, it weighs 700 lbs more.

In the end, you really don't know how the weight will effect the reliability of the BS on the track. Thank you.

[driftster]

Originally Posted by Mprofiler

It's not an oil cooler. There is no reference to an oil cooler... Go reread the press release.

You are confused heavily my friend.

What's in a differential exactly?

Water? Soap perhaps?

Maybe a mixture of chili beans and whale blubber?

Oh yeah that's right..OIL!!!

[Mprofiler]

Originally Posted by driftster

What's in a differential exactly?

Water? Soap perhaps?

Maybe a mixture of chili beans and whale blubber?

Oh yeah that's right..OIL!!!

It's called a diff cooler. There is a name for it. The fact that you said "oil cooler" could mean a host of things... Oil cooler used in the press release refers back to the engine and the cooling unit is for the diff.