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10-08-2010, 12:19 AM | #89 | |
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Turbolag is another thing. To me, it is no fun to have a $250,000 car that can rev up to only 6500 rpm.
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""A great sounding, responsive, high-revving, naturally aspirated engine is part of the DNA of a thoroughbred sports car. No two ways about it."
- Lamborghini on turbocharging Last edited by 330CIZHP; 10-08-2010 at 12:37 AM.. |
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10-08-2010, 01:16 AM | #90 |
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God's vacuum cleaner. And I respect the hell out of the engineering that went into the LFA but it leaves me cold. Other than the exhaust note that they probably spent a year tweaking because they're anal like that.
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10-08-2010, 02:46 AM | #92 | ||||
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Well that's your opinion, but it is far from fact. We have gone from general agreement on this detail in the past to disagreement now. Your insistence on being critical to folks who cite certain specs that get a bee in your bonnet causes you to sway too far the other direction and contradict yourself.
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10-08-2010, 09:44 AM | #93 | ||
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It truly needs to be seen in real life to be appreciated and the crowds that it draws need to be seen. One Nissan GTR tuning shop owner from NAGTROC did a hotlap around the race track . It was not TopGear "The Stig's most favorite supercar of 2010" without a reason. This is what he wrote: Quote:
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""A great sounding, responsive, high-revving, naturally aspirated engine is part of the DNA of a thoroughbred sports car. No two ways about it."
- Lamborghini on turbocharging Last edited by 330CIZHP; 10-08-2010 at 10:17 AM.. |
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10-08-2010, 10:52 AM | #94 | |
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So, we may get to see that new model vs. new model comparison yet. |
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10-08-2010, 11:39 AM | #95 | |
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i'm willing to bet the lexus will ride better than the gt2 rs, sounds 100x better, way more luxurious and exclusive. this is very similar to the gtr when it just came out, the same people that bashed it now purchase it. once the hate for the badge is out the window, the love just keep coming Last edited by graider; 10-08-2010 at 11:47 AM.. |
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10-08-2010, 02:33 PM | #96 | |
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So on that lucky day when the plane flying drug money overhead ditches its payload in my backyard and Sofía Vergara happens to move in next door, I'm probably going to take my bags of money to the Porsche dealer. The 911 form may be familiar, but in the GT incarnation, it strikes a sinister profile that resonates in some basic part of my brain. Much like Sofia Vergara.
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10-08-2010, 03:51 PM | #97 |
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10-08-2010, 05:00 PM | #98 | |||
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You are somehow equating carefully built components made of expensive materials with engineers always striving for max power per liter. This is not rocket science regardless of what you think. What actually is closer to rocket science is to improve engine efficiency so as to extract maximum mileage from a given power and torque curve, and make it blow butterflies out the tailpipe while it does so. Quote:
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What I am saying, and all I am saying, is that slamming one engine in preference to another based on power per liter is sheer nonsense. Power per liter is almost immaterial most of the time, and it gets lost amongst a myriad of other factors. You know I have inflamed the faithful in the past by saying that the M3 would work better with an LS3 in it, or an LS7. I do that to make a point (and it's fun to bait the faithful, after all), not to actually recommend it. The M3 is a unique animal, and some of that uniqueness would be lost. Not that I care, but I know others would. Would the M3 work better with the new Mustang motor in it? Probably so. You see, yet again, where my head is on this. Power per liter hardly ever matters out here on the mean streets because of all the other factors that have to be juggled. |
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10-08-2010, 06:06 PM | #99 |
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The LSBs were only 500 while the regular boss was 1500 from what I read.
However, then I read this..so maybe a tad more, but not much more. Only 75% of the dealers will definitely get one as it is based on dealers with high Mustang sales. So if you are in truck country in Wyoming and your local dealer doesn't sell a lot of Mustangs they may not get one at all. As the remainding 25% have to go into an allotment lotto. All very confusing..read this tell me what you think. http://rumors.automobilemag.com/6684...ine/index.html Just read this on TheMustangSource.com 2012: 3,500+500 Laguna Sega (with 69 Theme) 2013: 3,500+500 R-Models (maybe another Race Track?) (70 Theme) So they are doing it 2 model years (just like for the 69/70 Mustang). However, the Laguna Seca version is just going to be 500, but then they are coming out with an R model that will also be just 500 units. I don't think a lot of these are going to end up in everyday peoples hands, investors are going to snap them up. Also, Edmunds reports the non Laguna Seca car coming in at $38,000...LOL, the dealers you know are going to be asking 20k over.. Dave
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(Sold)2013 M3 Coupe-MR/BLK ZCP, 2011 M3 Coupe-MR/Blk 2007 Porsche 997C2S Speed Yellow/Blk sport seats 2004 BMW M3 Imola/Blk Last edited by Dave07997S; 10-08-2010 at 08:24 PM.. |
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10-09-2010, 01:30 AM | #100 | ||||
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Some time ago you agreed with me that:
1. Engineering sophistication and power per liter roughly scale together. 2. Part of what contributes to the M3s best engine metric (its broad and flat torque curve) goes hand in hand with it high specific output. You've now entirely changed course. That OK if you want to, just realize you have. Quote:
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Here is another exercise. Make a list of the top (say 10 or so) specific output engines (NA ones, of course). Do you or do you not now also have a list of some of the best engines and best sports cars around? You're probably aware that the Ferrari 458 Italia sits at the very top of the list, right? Quote:
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10-09-2010, 04:04 AM | #101 |
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10-09-2010, 05:11 AM | #102 |
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the Boss will surely beat the M3 in terms of performance, the GT alone has virtually the same performance.
i think were seeing the wrong picture here, ford isn't comparing the Feel or luxury of both cars, its comparing the Raw performance. The Boss without the benchmark is going to sell on heritage alone, Ford just might of thought it was great to match its revived racing legend against the current top dog. Lets not forget the 45+ year racing history the mustang has, the M line is barely scratching 26 years of history, but that's not the point. what the Boss will offer is Great, the specs alone will make any car enthusiast cry. 440hp 380pf.tq fully forge engine, that rev-lines @7500rpms(LS models have a "special red key") 5 point adjustable suspension 3.73 gears LSD with carbon fiber plates(op Tor/sen LSD) LS model- X brace, rear seat delete, cooling duct tunnels, Recaro seats(op on Boss) the projected price is around 35k to 40k, between the GT and GT500. Ford is getting mad respect for this car. |
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10-09-2010, 07:08 AM | #103 | |
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I'm just not an M nutswinger like many on this very forum......and for what it's worth in the past five years I've owned the following: a CaymanS, 997S, 996TT, C6Z06 and E60M5. You? |
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10-09-2010, 08:56 AM | #104 |
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Met one last night, he was EAGER to test me.
We did 2 runs, both from 40 roll to 140. It's impressive, but, He was stock and I'm not, pulled 2 cars on his shift to third and continued to walk away at a steady pace.
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10-09-2010, 11:05 AM | #105 |
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ok wtf are we arguing about here? i think you all missed the point.
if you want track performance and value is your top priority = boss if you want the finest wine in this class and you can afford it = m3 |
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10-09-2010, 01:38 PM | #106 | ||||||
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I'm fine with you liking the big numbers on the tach. You should also be fine with me liking a more useable torque curve along with way better mileage. Quote:
I hereby genuflect in your direction, oh rocket science wannabe. Quote:
Yet again, my issue is about folks thinking power per liter is somehow a magical thing. It isn't, as proven with my examples. As mentioned, if the M group gave a damn they would not have stopped at 104. Quote:
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As for your use of the word "most" I assume you mean M3 drivers, and if so, would agree. If not, not. So, to repeat myself with slightly different words, (and this is way-old data for you, but perhaps not for others) power per liter pretty much comes down to rpm. Torque per liter in smog legal street engines tops out in the 80s for the most part, with, say, 90 as the benchmark in the Ferrari. Thus, you've got to go for the rpm in order to turn that torque into proportionally more power. The other way to get the power is with more cubic capacity. Even with fewer foot pounds per liter, and way less power per liter, you can develop similar power with way more torque, as with the Chevy LS3. With nothing given up in terms of engine size and weight, this would be an overall good thing, except for the loss of nearly 2000 rpm - and that 2000 rpm is part of the M3 mystique. Hopefully for the last time, my issue was and is with the guy who put down the Ford based on power per liter. |
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10-10-2010, 08:06 AM | #107 | |
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Secondly, what's your point about the cars you owned for the past 5 years? Are you trying to make me feel bad or something? |
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10-10-2010, 08:25 AM | #108 | |
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I am also not going to disagree with you about many many 335 owners that think they are driving something special (a Porsche TT, etc.). There are a ton of them out there. There are many that think their tuned 335 is as good or better than an E92M3 as well. I'm not one of them... and I am tuned. I know the M3 is a better performer and a better overall car. It just isn't edgy enough for me aestheically which is why I have shyed away from it...all the while never bashing the car...just many owners of it. I picked up the 335 to "hold me over" until the prices of the 997TT, CLK63 AMG Black or SL55 AMG came down to my price point..... which they will have in early 2011. I posted the cars I have owned in the past 5 years as further proof that I don't swing on the nutsack of a particular badge. That's all. Trust me, I am the last person that would attempt to brag/boast about the cars I have owned as I know damn well that none of them are/were anything special. |
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10-10-2010, 04:49 PM | #109 | ||||
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The problem with your replies are that you swing too far in the opposite direction to make your points, e.g. "completely disagree, meaningless phrase", etc.
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10-10-2010, 06:24 PM | #110 |
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im glad ford has made this claim because it will put bmw in check to design a better m, just like nissan made porsche boost up the 911 turbo. I wouldnt underestimate ford because they took down ferrari back in the day in the 24hr lemans. Everyone is stepping up their game the scc even took back the speed record from the bugatti super sport I think now its the horsepower race again.
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