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10-06-2010, 12:04 PM | #45 | |
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My M3 was $55k out the door and for $10k I could turn it into a *very* fast track car that can be driven on the street. No way I'd buy a Mustang for that price, it's not justifiable. But on second thought, if they only make 500 of them they will be worth hanging onto (without driving it) for 10-20 years if you're into that sort of thing.
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10-06-2010, 12:08 PM | #46 |
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There will be a lot more than 500 of the normal Boss but the LS will be the scarce one.I expect the LS will be a fair bit quicker than a E92 M3 on track but they are 2 totally different cars for everyday use.I expect a Boss LS to be about 60% of the cost of an M3 in Canada.
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10-06-2010, 12:46 PM | #47 | |
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Your logic train has clearly left the rails. |
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10-06-2010, 01:11 PM | #48 | ||
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The reactions of the faithful on this site are pretty much unique. They feel threatened in some personal way by any vehicle that challenges the M3. Quote:
I personally have no idea about the length and scope of the Boss 302 project, but I can assure you that they have no designs on M3 market share. It's just the the M3 is an icon (as it damn well deserves to be), so it makes for very good press to say they can beat it on a specific track. As I said, Ford will beat the M3 like a rented mule, because they said they will, and of course with a given that a base Mustang GT got really, really close, so a car with more power, better brakes and track sneakers will in fact be a bunch faster than that. Bruce PS - You're of course entitled to your opinion, but I can't imagine any C63 owners caring, unless they're teenagers and daddy bought it. For that matter, only immature M3 owners with brittle egos will care, as well. Of course, you'll find many of those folks here, although my sneaking suspicion is that many of them inhabit dorm rooms, or are using mommy's computer. |
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10-06-2010, 01:24 PM | #49 | |
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I was pointing out that in the past, Ford has made automotive claims that were not truthful. To their best knowledge the Cobra was outputting XXX HP and independent measurements had proven otherwise. So yes, they can be widely off the mark. On the other hand, the only argument that you came up with is that well, since Ford said it, then it must be true, right? I mean, were you there when they timed both cars? Were you perhaps the one driving them? Until we see independent verification of these claims, preferably with "customer" cars (i.e. non-manufacturer supplied) and with the same driver on the same day (and preferably with similar tires), it's all just marketing - not necessarily reality. Edit: And if you actually read my post, you'll notice I said I'm more inclined to believe their claims these days. But just that, more inclined - the actual proof is in the pudding.
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10-06-2010, 01:40 PM | #50 |
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10-06-2010, 03:04 PM | #51 |
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Of course it's not significant in the overall performance scheme...
I just thought when you have the word "motor" in your company..don't you have to back it up by producing motors that will reflect that....and then you design an excellent chassis to incorporate that motor.... Maybe I'm just crazy to think that...and most of us here got our M3s because the marque looks cool... |
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10-06-2010, 04:34 PM | #52 |
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and with engine designers, and to combustion engineers, and to those who appreciate getting more with less, and to many race teams, and ...
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10-06-2010, 04:53 PM | #53 |
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You know guys, we're just talking about a couple of cars here. We should be able to express opinions without insulting each other. Maybe I got the thing headed off track by my comment on BMW elitism. I apologize to anyone offended. I've owned a lot (too many) cars, and have little brand loyalty, which is probably why I am sensitive to such attitudes. My last sports car was a 996 GT3, so you know of what I speak. My only advice on cars, drive the ones under conderation, buy your favorite, and never read the forums. Ultimately, no one else's opinion is worth a jar of cold piss.
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10-06-2010, 06:43 PM | #54 | |
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10-06-2010, 07:05 PM | #55 | |
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Wait till next year!
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It would be much fairer to compare it to an M car of the future that has not been built yet. CA
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10-06-2010, 07:29 PM | #56 |
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For the record, I think it's perfectly "fair" for Ford to make the comparison they are making. I just think that people who pay attention to the details know that a new M3 lurks on the horizon for the 2013 model year.
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10-06-2010, 07:39 PM | #57 | |
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I'm in the same boat as you in not swinging on any one manufacturer's nutsack. I've owned Porsche, Benz, BMW, Vettes, etc. and am no fanboi of any of them. |
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10-06-2010, 08:05 PM | #58 | |
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Compare the e92 m3 to a ford mustang boss and ill still take the m3 anyday because its a complete package compare a 911tt to a gtr and ill still take the 911 anyday because its a complete package, hell ill take a reg 911 over a gtr. |
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10-06-2010, 09:52 PM | #59 | |
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I don't know if I would say they were widely off the mark as the cars were probably down 15hp which was proven to be flash in the alum. intakes (thats why plastic intakes are better unless you are using nitrous) and mufflers that were too restrictive and were proven not to be within the spec Ford specified. BTW, the mufflers were provided to Ford by Arvin Meritor, the same maker of BMW exhausts. That being said they really are 2 different cars, for those of you who wouldn't buy the Mustang thats fine..but to call the car garbage is just being ignorant and being a fanbois. I love Mustangs but I love the M3 more it is a total package. Those who say it won't be reliable and won't last 100k miles don't know the Mustang well at all...they are very reliable and since 2005 they lead their segment in not only initial quality surveys but in long term as well. Oh another acronym for Ford First On Race Day Dave
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10-06-2010, 09:58 PM | #60 |
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LOL..how do you compare it to a car that isn't even built yet...
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10-06-2010, 10:49 PM | #61 | |
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Careful to underestimate the 5.0L, its a remarkable engine. Given the choice of that 5.0 or this 4.0, as much as I love the M3 motor, I'd not hesitate to have th 5.0L in my M3, and especially the Boss 302 motor which is confirmed to have a 7500rpm redline. Not too shabby for a torquey American V8. And honestly, Ford V8's are the only American made performance V8's not sporting push rods. They are advanced engines and have never been far behind Europe. Ford hasn't made a pushrod V8 since 1996. All are DOHC, variable timing, multi-port FI. And that doesn't even touch on the fact that modding mustangs is rediculously cheaper than M3's. Ford will have available late this year a supercharger kit that preserves the warranty and rumored to have 550+hp output. Another note on the Boss 302, original versions from 1970 are one of the most collectable mustangs ever made. Keeping in mind that 69 GT500's are bringing 300-500k at auction right now, thats saying something. All that said, I love my M3. I have it because I quite literally said, I want Mustang performance with 4 doors. Judging by the latest Motor Trend comparo, that's exactly what I got and couldn't be happier. Plus the added bonus of luxery, EDC, Mdrive, MDM, and of course the comfort. But if Ford made an attractive 4 door around 3600lbs with that 5.0L in it, I'd probably be in that right now.... maybe. The M3 is hard to beat.
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10-06-2010, 10:54 PM | #62 | |
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Dave
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10-06-2010, 10:57 PM | #63 | |
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Dave
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10-06-2010, 10:58 PM | #64 |
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Yeah was talking about the 3v/4v variety. With the latest 3v conversion, I think by next year there wont be anymore SOHC period? I think thats confirmed now with the death of the 4.6L even in trucks. Either way, pushrods have been gone for a long time.
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10-06-2010, 11:34 PM | #65 |
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I think these new Mustangs are going to need wheelie bars pretty soon..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBtjVpBVbt8 Dave
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10-07-2010, 12:28 AM | #66 | |
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Nissan said their benchmark was the then-current Porsche Turbo at the 'Ring, and they beat up on the Porsche. Of course, they had already beaten up on the Porsche before the press releases, or there wouldn't have been any press releases. First you put down the Porsche ("designed many years ago"), and then you call it a benchmark. Hard to have it both ways... I personally believe it was a benchmark at the time Nissan beat up on it, and of course they aimed at a benchmark for hype! You type that as if you have a problem with it. Why? Ringer? Right. I bet you think all the succeeding runs have been with ringers as well. You might want to look at online GT-R runs. Suzuki is driving with NAFOD, for sure. Much more so than Horst, for example. In my opinion, Horst is supposed to drive hard, perhaps to the 90-95% level or so, but not with NAFOD, please. Big difference. Oh, NAFOD? That's a Navy fighter pilot acronym for "no apparent fear of death". By the way, "subsequent results" have been exceedingly kind to the Nissan, I think, down to the current 7:26.7 time, which is about where Nissan was aiming before the car first came out. (They said "under 7:30" was the goal back then, if memory serves.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard anything about the "new" Porsche Turbo with PDK staying with the GT-R at the 'Ring yet, much less the previous one. Am I wrong? Amazingly enough, I concur with your last sentence. None of the four cars are actually competitors, in my opinion, magazine hype aside. |
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