So....this happened

[Vanmarsenille]

Originally Posted by UnaBomber

oh and by the way. an m3 is still a fucking 3 series

Not sure I get your point, but not to worry. Oh, I almost forgot, a GTR is still a fucking Nissan.

[grantmax]

Originally Posted by clar

Seriously, u need to do this to a person?

It's tough in the streets. Let's not forget, OP had his e93 in for service.

[ASBSECU E93]

Originally Posted by grantmax

It's tough in the streets. Let's not forget, OP had his e93 in for service.

...service covered under the maintenance plan that's like free money - Right!?!?

[Racer-X]

An M235 is as much an M car as an Audi S-Line is a true S.

The M in M235 stands for marketing, plain and simple.

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

Sorry to say this to people. Regardless of Conv, or sunroof, real Ms are M3, M4, M5, M6 to me.

You forgot the 1M

[MPowerZ32]

Audi S line = M Sport Package
Audi S = M Performance model
Audi RS = M model
These days BMW and Audi mirror each other.

[MPowerZ32]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

You forgot the 1M

Sorry. I don't think 1M is a true M due to the lack of a real M engine. The Z3M and Z4M are ture Ms. They should have dropped S65 into the 1M, just like they did the ZMs.

[nthretourNAFTW]

Wow, there are some M3, M5, M6 haters on this thread.
OP, I wished i was there I would have laughed hearing that. Seriously with people like that, you don't even give them an inch of recognition, if someone is so arrogantly disillusioned that they try to take you in their fantasy world of owning an M car I would have shitted all over his face about his car which is not designed by BMW-M GmbH.

The M235i is a "M performance" car, not an M car. M cars are born in the motorsport division of BMW M GmbH.
And cost an arm an leg

For jealous BMW owners (like that M235i owner or that jon troll in this thread) here is the BMW nomenclatura lesson:

* An M followed by the word “Sport” is BMW code for interior- or exterior-trim changes, chassis upgrades, and engine tweaks offered as optional equipment.

* The M Performance label has a double meaning. It can stand for various aero, drivetrain, chassis, and cockpit parts and accessories available through official BMW *channels.

* M Performance is also a BMW category for cars with sporting credentials, such as the new M235i.

*Cars designated with an M followed by a single digit are the chosen ones. They’re born and bred under the auspices of BMW M GmbH, the in-house motorsports division responsible for spanking enemies at the track. Resourceful M-division engineers can swiftly apply to their road cars the structural gains, suspension improvements, aero refinements, and power secrets learned from racing.

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by MPowerZ32

Sorry. I don't think 1M is a true M due to the lack of a real M engine. The Z3M and Z4M are ture Ms. They should have dropped S65 into the 1M, just like they did the ZMs.

I love M snobs. I've had a 1M and now an M3. The 1M is more exhilarating in most every way. M3 suspension and brakes, LSD, and weighing in much lighter. How is that not an M? It's the closest thing they have come to the original M3. I love the S65 engine note, but that is about the only place the M3 trumps the 1M. Id be back in a 1M right now if it wasn't for the fact they are still selling above MSRP.

[MPowerZ32]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

I love M snobs. I've had a 1M and now an M3. The 1M is more exhilarating in most every way. M3 suspension and brakes, LSD, and weighing in much lighter. How is that not an M? It's the closest thing they have come to the original M3. I love the S65 engine note, but that is about the only place the M3 trumps the 1M. Id be back in a 1M right now if it wasn't for the fact they are still selling above MSRP.

It's unfortunate that you consider people snobs if they disagree with you. The 1M has no M engine, period. It has a tuned pedestrian engine. Sure suspension is great, lightweight is great. But the it's missing a critical component as an M car. And most BMW enthusiasts consider the engine as the most important part of any M car. Without a proper M engine it's like an Audi S car vs the true RS.

Their on going higher price is due to that BMW used the limited supply card. I will bet as soon as M2 comes out (which is also debatable M car), the price of 1M will go down significantly. Why? Because M2 is just like 1M but better.

BMW held back in making the 1M and did not drop in an S65 in it in fear of jeopardizing M3 sales. They could have supplied the 1M with S65 and limited quantity anyways without hurting the M3. But oh no. Little brother can't be faster than the big brother. Their bean counters overruled the engineers. It could have been a much more special car. Missed opportunity if you ask me.

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by MPowerZ32

It's unfortunate that you consider people snobs if they disagree with you. The 1M has no M engine, period. It has a tuned pedestrian engine. Sure suspension is great, lightweight is great. But the it's missing a critical component as an M car. And most BMW enthusiasts consider the engine as the most important part of any M car. Without a proper M engine it's like an Audi S car vs the true RS.

Their on going higher price is due to that BMW used the limited supply card. I will bet as soon as M2 comes out (which is also debatable M car), the price of 1M will go down significantly. Why? Because M2 is just like 1M but better.

BMW held back in making the 1M and did not drop in an S65 in it in fear of jeopardizing M3 sales. They could have supplied the 1M with S65 and limited quantity anyways without hurting the M3. But oh no. Little brother can't be faster than the big brother. Their bean counters overruled the engineers. It could have been a much more special car. Missed opportunity if you ask me.

I consider the 1m an //m car. Bmw dictates what is an M car. I agree traditionally it doesnt have all the same components as the other models but they released and promoted it as an //M and it is undeniably a performer. Maybe the e9x is more of an M car, if thats possible, but the 1m is still an M. The 1m in many ways the predecessor the the f8x cars.

I do not think the 1M will significantly down in value when the m2 drops. I think it will continue to hold around msrp with mileage climbing, age and warranties running out. I also am unwary if the m2 will be "better" than the 1m. I think if the f8x to e9x is any sign, the m2 will be faster but will it carry the same emotion and be luring enough to draw people away from their valuable 1m's? Im doubtful.

BMW not only could not put an s65 in the 1m from a performance standpoint but also from cost and market line up. There s65 1m, due to limited production would cost more than an e92, out perform and be priced between the m3 and m5.


I think everyone in here fully agrees that the m235i is not a full //M car. I say that as fact, not discrediting the 235i, its a good car. Its more about the question of if it is ok to talk down on someones car and how OP described the situation.

[Eurohorses]

FML for reading all 4 pages of this

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by MPowerZ32

It's unfortunate that you consider people snobs if they disagree with you. The 1M has no M engine, period. It has a tuned pedestrian engine. Sure suspension is great, lightweight is great. But the it's missing a critical component as an M car. And most BMW enthusiasts consider the engine as the most important part of any M car. Without a proper M engine it's like an Audi S car vs the true RS.

Their on going higher price is due to that BMW used the limited supply card. I will bet as soon as M2 comes out (which is also debatable M car), the price of 1M will go down significantly. Why? Because M2 is just like 1M but better.

BMW held back in making the 1M and did not drop in an S65 in it in fear of jeopardizing M3 sales. They could have supplied the 1M with S65 and limited quantity anyways without hurting the M3. But oh no. Little brother can't be faster than the big brother. Their bean counters overruled the engineers. It could have been a much more special car. Missed opportunity if you ask me.

Not calling someone a snob over not agreeing with me, I'm just saying there is a lot of snobbery flying around on this post. The 1M was a specific model, not a package that you could add to an existing model. Sorry if you don't agree, but even BMW put it under their M lineup (unlike the other MSport models being discussed on here).

I'm just venting because this post epitomizes the BMW "snob" stigma. Who cares what the guy was saying about his m235. Was it really ruining your day enough that you had to "educate" him? Maybe it's the nicest car he has ever had? BMW put some M stuff on it so he was proud of it. What would have been so hard to say nice car, love the wrap and leave it at that? Do I think it is an M model? No. Would I have called the guy out about his pride and joy? No. Whatever. Different strokes for different folks.

[ASBSECU E93]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

I love M snobs. I've had a 1M and now an M3. The 1M is more exhilarating in most every way. M3 suspension and brakes, LSD, and weighing in much lighter. How is that not an M? It's the closest thing they have come to the original M3. I love the S65 engine note, but that is about the only place the M3 trumps the 1M. Id be back in a 1M right now if it wasn't for the fact they are still selling above MSRP.

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

I consider the 1m an //m car. Bmw dictates what is an M car. I agree traditionally it doesnt have all the same components as the other models but they released and promoted it as an //M and it is undeniably a performer. Maybe the e9x is more of an M car, if thats possible, but the 1m is still an M. The 1m in many ways the predecessor the the f8x cars.

I do not think the 1M will significantly down in value when the m2 drops. I think it will continue to hold around msrp with mileage climbing, age and warranties running out. I also am unwary if the m2 will be "better" than the 1m. I think if the f8x to e9x is any sign, the m2 will be faster but will it carry the same emotion and be luring enough to draw people away from their valuable 1m's? Im doubtful.

BMW not only could not put an s65 in the 1m from a performance standpoint but also from cost and market line up. There s65 1m, due to limited production would cost more than an e92, out perform and be priced between the m3 and m5.


I think everyone in here fully agrees that the m235i is not a full //M car. I say that as fact, not discrediting the 235i, its a good car. Its more about the question of if it is ok to talk down on someones car and how OP described the situation.

Originally Posted by SloPoke

Not calling someone a snob over not agreeing with me, I'm just saying there is a lot of snobbery flying around on this post. The 1M was a specific model, not a package that you could add to an existing model. Sorry if you don't agree, but even BMW put it under their M lineup (unlike the other MSport models being discussed on here).

I'm just venting because this post epitomizes the BMW "snob" stigma. Who cares what the guy was saying about his m235. Was it really ruining your day enough that you had to "educate" him? Maybe it's the nicest car he has ever had? BMW put some M stuff on it so he was proud of it. What would have been so hard to say nice car, love the wrap and leave it at that? Do I think it is an M model? No. Would I have called the guy out about his pride and joy? No. Whatever. Different strokes for different folks.

Lets recap: Guy felt he needed to 1) Interrupt my conversation regarding a potential M4 Vert purchase; 2) I asked the guy a question about the wrap; 3) Then he went to great lengths to describe how his car was a M car...

I am not a M snob (or a snob any other time). As I have stated, I did not whip out my "M" owners badge and give him a stern talking too. I love all cars across all generations and brands. I take great pride in my car and have respect for others that also do the same. I could also care less if his car was 200 hp more than my car, the point is he kept on spouting all this BS about his car. I made my comment to the salesman right in front of him...then I walked away.

I was not malicious or angry, nor was my comment directed at the guy - simply made a factual statement and walked away.

[clar]

OP, u shd be expecting nothing less doing what u did and starting a thread abt it.

[abp689]

Blogging your time spent educating (and degrading) the mans 235 makes your motive appear as the aggressor in the conversation. As the other poster mentioned, those type of conversations make other bmw owners also look like asshats.

There is a difference between debating whether an e93 can be a true M and debasing someone's purchase.

[nthretourNAFTW]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

I love M snobs. I've had a 1M and now an M3. The 1M is more exhilarating in most every way. M3 suspension and brakes, LSD, and weighing in much lighter. How is that not an M? It's the closest thing they have come to the original M3. I love the S65 engine note, but that is about the only place the M3 trumps the 1M. Id be back in a 1M right now if it wasn't for the fact they are still selling above MSRP.

Originally Posted by SloPoke

Not calling someone a snob over not agreeing with me, I'm just saying there is a lot of snobbery flying around on this post. The 1M was a specific model, not a package that you could add to an existing model. Sorry if you don't agree, but even BMW put it under their M lineup (unlike the other MSport models being discussed on here).

I'm just venting because this post epitomizes the BMW "snob" stigma. Who cares what the guy was saying about his m235. Was it really ruining your day enough that you had to "educate" him? Maybe it's the nicest car he has ever had? BMW put some M stuff on it so he was proud of it. What would have been so hard to say nice car, love the wrap and leave it at that? Do I think it is an M model? No. Would I have called the guy out about his pride and joy? No. Whatever. Different strokes for different folks.

You are the troll and the aggressor. An aggressor because you are making defamatory statements about the OP who clearly stated in his original post and on two more occasions that that m235 owner (very much like you) started making unprovoked invectives based on the false premise that he had an M car. It is silly and laughable to even entertain a debate on this topic. Just go to bmwusa click on : "Vehicles" "M Models" : M3, M4, M5, M6. Right on ! All Singled digit number cars. They never categorized an m235i or a 1M as an M car. That is just your wishful disillusion and jealousy or more exactly funny BS.

Second you are a jealous troll, very much like 135i, 238i posters in this thread. There was a time when that role was fulfilled by jealous 335is owners. Same thing, they hated that their cars was not an M. You have to pay to play. That's not snobbery that's a fact of life. There is absolutely nothing pejorative in keeping with the manufacturer classification. When you cross the line and start calling your car something it is not, expect to be laughed at and taken for a fool's ride with silly pride.

As far as trying to deceptively instigate feelings of guilt to those calling an non-M car a non-M car to cushion the sensitive feelings of the owner. That strategy is as laughable as the whole argument.
That tactic seems quite popular these days in the political scene, pushing a lie because it is subjectively "politically correct" is fallacy and lie.

[vegaseric]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

...I think everyone in here fully agrees that the m235i is not a full //M car. I say that as fact, not discrediting the 235i, its a good car. Its more about the question of if it is ok to talk down on someones car and how OP described the situation.

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by nthretourNAFTW

You are the troll and the aggressor. An aggressor because you are making defamatory statements about the OP who clearly stated in his original post and on two more occasions that that m235 owner (very much like you) started making unprovoked invectives based on the false premise that he had an M car. It is silly and laughable to even entertain a debate on this topic. Just go to bmwusa click on : "Vehicles" "M Models" : M3, M4, M5, M6. Right on ! All Singled digit number cars. They never categorized an m235i or a 1M as an M car. That is just your wishful disillusion and jealousy or more exactly funny BS.

Second you are a jealous troll, very much like 135i, 238i posters in this thread. There was a time when that role was fulfilled by jealous 335is owners. Same thing, they hated that their cars was not an M. You have to pay to play. That's not snobbery that's a fact of life. There is absolutely nothing pejorative in keeping with the manufacturer classification. When you cross the line and start calling your car something it is not, expect to be laughed at and taken for a fool's ride with silly pride.

As far as trying to deceptively instigate feelings of guilt to those calling an non-M car a non-M car to cushion the sensitive feelings of the owner. That strategy is as laughable as the whole argument.
That tactic seems quite popular these days in the political scene, pushing a lie because it is subjectively "politically correct" is fallacy and lie.

Troll.....mmmkay. The 1M is not listed under M models anymore because they quit making it genius. Jealous? I bought my 1M new and currently own an e92 M3. How can I be jealous when I basically own the same car as the OP?

[ASBSECU E93]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

Troll.....mmmkay. The 1M is not listed under M models anymore because they quit making it genius. Jealous? I bought my 1M new and currently own an e92 M3. How can I be jealous when I basically own the same car as the OP?

Only your E92 M is lighter and handles better...oh wait, wrong thread

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by nthretourNAFTW

You are the troll and the aggressor. An aggressor because you are making defamatory statements about the OP who clearly stated in his original post and on two more occasions that that m235 owner (very much like you) started making unprovoked invectives based on the false premise that he had an M car. It is silly and laughable to even entertain a debate on this topic. Just go to bmwusa click on : "Vehicles" "M Models" : M3, M4, M5, M6. Right on ! All Singled digit number cars. They never categorized an m235i or a 1M as an M car. That is just your wishful disillusion and jealousy or more exactly funny BS.

Second you are a jealous troll, very much like 135i, 238i posters in this thread. There was a time when that role was fulfilled by jealous 335is owners. Same thing, they hated that their cars was not an M. You have to pay to play. That's not snobbery that's a fact of life. There is absolutely nothing pejorative in keeping with the manufacturer classification. When you cross the line and start calling your car something it is not, expect to be laughed at and taken for a fool's ride with silly pride.

As far as trying to deceptively instigate feelings of guilt to those calling an non-M car a non-M car to cushion the sensitive feelings of the owner. That strategy is as laughable as the whole argument.
That tactic seems quite popular these days in the political scene, pushing a lie because it is subjectively "politically correct" is fallacy and lie.

The 1m was listed an an M car. it no longer is because it isnt in production. Same as the Z4MC.

I own a 135i and I 'never' hated my car because it wasnt an M nor did I ever go out of my way to insult or troll "M owners." I was never jealous of M car owners either as they are something you buy - not something you graduate or earn into.

Never called my 135i an M car either and never would claim an m235i as a true M. I dont think any person in the thread claimed that.

Your entire post comes off as the typical //M snob.

[nthretourNAFTW]

LOL absolutely not. There is nothing snob about calling the cards. Sure, BMW marketing is encouraging the bluff and that m235 owner was their ideal customer.
Calling me snob for stating facts makes you a douchebag.

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

The 1m was listed an an M car. it no longer is because it isnt in production. Same as the Z4MC.

Never. It may have been misconstrued as such by non official english publishing sources (which is exactly what bmw marketing wanted). If you had read German articles it was clearly not released as an M car. They called it "Das 1er M Coupé" =The 1 Series M Coupe. The 1 digit coming first makes it clear it is a 1 series not an M motorsport vehicle. The German press went further to say: " it does not have the M gene, lacks in performance and is not supple enough".

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

I own a 135i and I 'never' hated my car because it wasnt an M

.. and i didn't hate my razor blade when i shaved this morning. It's the poseur fallacy that is being pointed at, not the merits of the car for what it is, you're *intentionally* derailing the topic.

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

nor did I ever go out of my way to insult or troll "M owners."

Some people are in this thread.

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

I was never jealous of M car owners either as they are something you buy - not something you graduate or earn into.

Still off topic. A m235 is not an M car. Neither is a 1M.

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

Never called my 135i an M car either and never would claim an m235i as a true M. I dont think any person in the thread claimed that.

Oh yeah ? What about :

Originally Posted by Denk

BMW put an M badge on it, it must be an M car.

Originally Posted by Jon@NL

The owner of a convertible M3 tells the owner of the faster M235i that his car isn't a "real" M car despite...

( goes on further to argue that it is)

Originally Posted by Jon@NL

the M235i is it more of a real M car than a e93 All day and every day, in every metric that counts (except sound).

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

Your entire post comes off as the typical //M snob.

As you can see your post was just aggressive bullshit which makes you come off as a typical douchebag.

I called the truth, nothing more. There will always be people like that 235m guy.

The truth :

Originally Posted by MPowerZ32

BMW wants the confusion. This M235i guy is their ideal customer.

Originally Posted by Ezio

Doesn't matter who is faster. The m3 is a m. The m235 is a 2 series with a few M parts.

Originally Posted by MFL

///Marketing

Originally Posted by Racer-X

The M in M235 stands for marketing, plain and simple.