F80/F82 sales?

[SunnyD]

Originally Posted by BOOstJunkee

lol @ my posters.. I enjoy your comments. No F8x fanboy here. I'm just not going to bash a platform because I'm stuck on what I drive. All Ms have their pros and cons. You just seem like a hater.

Says the guy who is basically bashing the e9x M3. Who's the hater?

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Petros

Um, no. You guys are the ones who are unbelievable. So much sour grapes. So much vile hatred for a car most of you haven't even driven yet. No I am not a big fan of the F80. But unlike you I'm not in denial that it is a superior car to the E90 and a step in the right direction.

Or what was your plan? For BMW to keep making the E90 for eternity? And then watch as sales plummet because no one wants to spend 80k on a gas guzzling underpowered V8 that gets spanked by the average Mustang and Camaro on the road? There is a good reason why you guys are not in charge of a car company.

You just proved my point you just dont get it. us E90 guys are not saying the E90 is superior at all.

idk how many times i have to say this. The E90 came out in 2007, 2007 a mustang GT had 320HP, the GT500 had 500 HP. The M3 had over 400 HP. It was not tell years later when mustangs could actually performance. the M3 in its time, was a great car. Its competition (C63, RS5 ) also was making gas guzzling V8 engines.

I would have rather BMW made a reworked V8 engine with more power, and better MPG. Thats what we are trying to say! yes 7 dam years later, the E90 is not that fast anymore. my god

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by W///

Dude, with all due respect, you gotta stop regurgitating what car magazines say, because it doesn't exactly make you more credible. You admit you were born in the 90s. How many cars have you actually had a chance to really drive?

My point is this: Every car magazine will say a GTR or a 911 Turbo is "boring" to drive, but have you actually ever driven one? It's borderline stupid to call what they put in those engine compartments "vacuum cleaners". So I guess we should incinerate all Ferrari F40's then? Because people "supposedly" like you are allergic to turbos? I've had the chance to test drive the M3/4 a couple of times and the last thing I'd call that time with them would be emotionless.

Again, don't get me wrong. I love my E92, and when I say I never plan to get rid of it, I really mean it. But only a fool would say that the car is perfect. Hell, my 16 year old E36 M3 with its bastardized engine does a whole bunch of things than my E92 ever will. Same goes for the M3/4.


.

I think its time i posted some pics of cars i have been around. these are pictures i took years ago. I have been in these cars, no i have not driven them though. I also have rented exotic cars on race tracks. I can tell you, these exotic engines are so musical. which is why i love them.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by Ezio

I would have rather BMW made a reworked V8 engine with more power, and better MPG.

One of the things to be aware of is that the world wide sales of the V8 cars suffered significantly due to many Euro, middle east and asian countries imposing significant taxes on these cars. In one of the countries I visited late last year, the auto estate tax for cars with engines below 1.6 ltr was nearly $1K per year, cars with engines up to 3 ltr had to pay close to $5K/yr, and cars with 4 ltr and above had to pay $9.5K/yr. I was amazed that anyone was buying any luxury super sedans, this type of taxing would not be acceptable in the US certainly, every single year paying that just for owning a car is ridiculous IMO. So, we cannot look at just the US market since the M cars are for the worldwide market.

Beyond that, arguing whether V8 is better than I6TT is another matter, I am just glad we have options in the marketplace

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by FTS

One of the things to be aware of is that the world wide sales of the V8 cars suffered significantly due to many Euro, middle east and asian countries imposing significant taxes on these cars. In one of the countries I visited late last year, the auto estate tax for cars with engines below 1.6 ltr was nearly $1K per year, cars with engines up to 3 ltr had to pay close to $5K/yr, and cars with 4 ltr and above had to pay $9.5K/yr. I was amazed that anyone was buying any luxury super sedans, this type of taxing would not be acceptable in the US certainly, every single year paying that just for owning a car is ridiculous IMO. So, we cannot look at just the US market since the M cars are for the worldwide market.

Beyond that, arguing whether V8 is better than I6TT is another matter, I am just glad we have options in the marketplace

that is understandable.

I am not saying a V8 is better. more so saying as a American who doesn't care about how much i pay at the pump and does not have taxes on engine. I prefer a higher displacement non turbo engine.

to bad with everything going turbo and small displacement we wont have options anymore.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by Ezio

to bad with everything going turbo and small displacement we wont have options anymore.

I am not that pessimistic, I think we will have options many years to come. Porsche will keep the Cayman and 911 separation with the turbos on 911s, GT cars will remain for sometime NA engines, Aston will keep doing V8s I think, and of course the American auto manufacturers will keep teaching Europeans how to do proper V8s

As for BMW, I think we will see NA engines coupled with electric power supplement sooner than most other manufacturers, and of course it is up to you to decide whether that is better or not

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by FTS

I am not that pessimistic, I think we will have options many years to come. Porsche will keep the Cayman and 911 separation with the turbos on 911s, GT cars will remain for sometime NA engines, Aston will keep doing V8s I think, and of course the American auto manufacturers will keep teaching Europeans how to do proper V8s

As for BMW, I think we will see NA engines coupled with electric power supplement sooner than most other manufacturers, and of course it is up to you to decide whether that is better or not

i hope so. Honestly i all i ask for is engine diversity. i feared when i see so many companies doing the same thing. that we would have a bunch of 6 cylinder turbo 70-90k cars.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i hope so. Honestly i all i ask for is engine diversity. i feared when i see so many companies doing the same thing. that we would have a bunch of 6 cylinder turbo 70-90k cars.

The next big thing in the world of car performance mods: turbo delete kits

[Petros]

Someone have an ambulance on standby. Ezio will have a heart attack when he reads this: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Se...nt-goes-turbo/

[991brothers]

Originally Posted by Petros

Someone have an ambulance on standby. Ezio will have a heart attack when he reads this: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Se...nt-goes-turbo/

Oh no. Ferrari is putting turbos in their flagship vehicle. Hopefully this doesnt start WW3

[W///]

Originally Posted by Petros

Someone have an ambulance on standby. Ezio will have a heart attack when he reads this: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Se...nt-goes-turbo/

What POS. It's a mid-engined vacuum cleaner

[991brothers]

Originally Posted by W///

What POS. It's a mid-engined vacuum cleaner

458 Italias should be going up in value right?

[JRV]

Originally Posted by Petros

Someone have an ambulance on standby. Ezio will have a heart attack when he reads this: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Se...nt-goes-turbo/

Has anyone seen a dyno of a California T and can post up? Would like to see how well that Variable Torque Management works. I've always appreciated turbos for what they are but Ferrari seems to be appeasing to those that still want linear progressive power all the way towards redline.

[Ezio]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...turbocharging/

as if they had a choice

[W///]

Originally Posted by Ezio

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...turbocharging/

as if they had a choice

Again....

All you have are articles you've read and pictures that show that you've been "around" some NA cars, which you admit you've never driven. Also you've driven rental exotics (was it 5 or 10 laps?).

So now you know exactly how a 488GTB and M3/4 drives? You must be one hell of an expert.

I'm not saying that I don't like screaming NA engines as much as the next guy, but I'm not silly enough to come out and talk about cars I've never driven. That is all.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by W///

Again....

All you have are articles you've read and pictures that show that you've been "around" some NA cars, which you admit you've never driven. Also you've driven rental exotics (was it 5 or 10 laps?).

So now you know exactly how a 488GTB and M3/4 drives? You must be one hell of an expert.

I'm not saying that I don't like screaming NA engines as much as the next guy, but I'm not silly enough to come out and talk about cars I've never driven. That is all.

sure. But i at least have hear in person what a Lamborghini and Ferrari sounds like at redline. I also have hear supra, GTR, 911 turbo etc..

i am telling you nothing beats the sound of a N/A v10, or V8. you have to at least give the fact i can comment on sound.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Ezio

sure. But i at least have hear in person what a Lamborghini and Ferrari sounds like at redline. I also have hear supra, GTR, 911 turbo etc..

i am telling you nothing beats the sound of a N/A v10, or V8. you have to at least give the fact i can comment on sound.

You think I haven't? You think I've never been to an ALMS race and heard those 911 and Corvette race cars IRL? You don't think I've been all over Europe (including the Ring) and heard all sorts of ridiculous cars?

It's a trade off. No, I don't think turbo cars sound as good as high revving engines. But at the same time, they have their own positives too. And that would be just looking at the engine too. No one here that has driven the car will deny that the chassis is not way more rigid and that the brakes are much better on that car.

While I might be considering an F80 in the future (doubtful), I'm far from an F80 fan boy. I'm also far from an E9x M3 fan boy although I still think it's one of the greatest ones out there. If you went and drove an M3/4 tomorrow, and came back and said you know what, I think it's the worst car ever made, then fine. But IMO, you can't rock up to every thread about M3/4 and say the same things over and over again without having even driven the car.

I'm pissing into the wind anyway. This sort of stuff goes around every time a new car is released.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by W///

You think I haven't? You think I've never been to an ALMS race and heard those 911 and Corvette race cars IRL? You don't think I've been all over Europe (including the Ring) and heard all sorts of ridiculous cars?

It's a trade off. No, I don't think turbo cars sound as good as high revving engines. But at the same time, they have their own positives too. And that would be just looking at the engine too. No one here that has driven the car will deny that the chassis is not way more rigid and that the brakes are much better on that car.

While I might be considering an F80 in the future (doubtful), I'm far from an F80 fan boy. I'm also far from an E9x M3 fan boy although I still think it's one of the greatest ones out there. If you went and drove an M3/4 tomorrow, and came back and said you know what, I think it's the worst car ever made, then fine. But IMO, you can't rock up to every thread about M3/4 and say the same things over and over again without having even driven the car.

I'm pissing into the wind anyway. This sort of stuff goes around every time a new car is released.

I got my e92 without ever test driving one, without ever even being in one. Get my point ? i like what i like, and i know what i am going to hate. I do not like my friends bother`s 911 turbo because it lacks so hard in the sound department. although its overall a great car. if someone gave me a free turbo, i would drive it over my E92. So i am not completely ignorant. i know there is no way i am going to like a turbo 3.0L engine because there is not a single turbo engine i "love". not one.

I like the GTR though, i think it sounds pretty good for a turbo. other than that, nothing. even those twin turbo v8s in the F10 sound like shit IMO.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Ezio

I got my e92 without ever test driving one, without ever even being in one. Get my point ? i like what i like, and i know what i am going to hate. I do not like my friends bother`s 911 turbo because it lacks so hard in the sound department. although its overall a great car. if someone gave me a free turbo, i would drive it over my E92. So i am not completely ignorant. i know there is no way i am going to like a turbo 3.0L engine because there is not a single turbo engine i "love". not one.

I like the GTR though, i think it sounds pretty good for a turbo. other than that, nothing. even those twin turbo v8s in the F10 sound like shit IMO.

Well that sounds like that's your own problem man. So I guess you'd have 0 interest in driving a 488GTB or a McLaren P1 (how many people can say that).

I don't know if you realized it or not, but by you saying that you won't bother even trying to test drive the cars (no you just ride in them or take pics of them), that does come off as completely ignorant. Literally all you care about with a car is how they sound. Absolutely no care about how they drive or handle. None.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by W///

Well that sounds like that's your own problem man. So I guess you'd have 0 interest in driving a 488GTB or a McLaren P1 (how many people can say that).

I don't know if you realized it or not, but by you saying that you won't bother even trying to test drive the cars (no you just ride in them or take pics of them), that does come off as completely ignorant. Literally all you care about with a car is how they sound. Absolutely no care about how they drive or handle. None.

of course i have interest in driving all different kinds of cars. i just will never love the sound of them. thats my point. cars use to be made to my liking. Now with turbos, downsizing of displacement, reducing piston count, electric engine etc... i still think cars i fun, but they are overall losing something i loved about them.

I read post from people here, about how the M4`s engine is better because it make more power AND gets more power from a tune. Therefore its a better engine. as if everything else doesn't matter. I am not saying the S65 is a better engine either. I am saying the style of engine is just different. both should be respected in there own right.

I was watching a youtube video carlos lago saying that a 911 turbo S with right tires is faster around a track than a GT3. but he prefers a "slower" high revving N/A engine.

watch the first 10 tens of this video if you have a chance. totally my opinions from someone who has driven a lot of cars.

I was getting some service done on my M3 two weeks ago, they had a M4 in the showroom. I was talking to the sales guy about getting a test drive. They of course seeing how i currently own a M3 said it would be ok, but the car was in the showroom. just sayin

[SunnyD]

I drove an M4 and even put a deposit down after the test drive; that's how good it was. Plenty of power, but what really impressed me was the chassis. The car in general feels a lot more nimble compared to the e9x. I even didn't mind the sound, but then again I had a 135 and didn't mind that either.

My only problem with the car is that I don't think it's worth the $80K decently optioned out the door. If I wanted to spend that kind of dough, I'd be driving a 997.1 GT3 right now. I'd rather wait a few years and pick up a lightly used M4 for 60% of the original MSRP.

The m3 successor is always supposed to perform better than its predecessor. It's been this way since the e30, e36, e46, e9x, and now f8x. To those who haven't driven the F8x, go drive it. It's a really amazing chassis with an engine that has gobs of power down low...tons of fun.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Ezio

of course i have interest in driving all different kinds of cars. i just will never love the sound of them. thats my point. cars use to be made to my liking. Now with turbos, downsizing of displacement, reducing piston count, electric engine etc... i still think cars i fun, but they are overall losing something i loved about them.

I read post from people here, about how the M4`s engine is better because it make more power AND gets more power from a tune. Therefore its a better engine. as if everything else doesn't matter. I am not saying the S65 is a better engine either. I am saying the style of engine is just different. both should be respected in there own right.

I was watching a youtube video carlos lago saying that a 911 turbo S with right tires is faster around a track than a GT3. but he prefers a "slower" high revving N/A engine.

watch the first 10 tens of this video if you have a chance. totally my opinions from someone who has driven a lot of cars.

I was getting some service done on my M3 two weeks ago, they had a M4 in the showroom. I was talking to the sales guy about getting a test drive. They of course seeing how i currently own a M3 said it would be ok, but the car was in the showroom. just sayin

You've been saying the same things over and over again for well over 2 weeks. Carlos Lago (a really great journalist) at least has experienced both the Turbos S and GT3, so he's completely qualified to say what he prefers.

This is my point. I never said the S55 sounded better than the S65. Not even close. BUT I can get past the fact that, while the S55 doesn't sound as good as the S65, it does other things better. I didn't go "Bah, BMW are a bunch of sellouts", "Turbos are for sissies that only car about quarter miles" ect ect... I went and drove one for myself. But if I didn't, I wouldn't go around in every single thread saying how much more of an M car the E9x is

Do you see what I'm saying now? Until you go drive one, who gives a crap what others say? You can't possibly know for yourself. You might walk away and say "You know what, it's not anywhere as bad sounding as bad as people say", "The EPS doesn't suck like what these people say". You just never know.

Also, about electric cars. Ever driven one? Is that a no? Hmm, if that's the case, again I'm not surprised. They also have their positives. That instant torque is FUN.

Anyway, if you (or other guys that talk about the M3/4 but haven't driven them) still don't get the point I'm trying to make, then there's no point. Enjoy the E9x in good health.