F80/F82 sales?

[ASBSECU E93]

Originally Posted by Ezio

this is why i no longer care about performance. honda sounding cars and eletric cars are going to smoke everything.

and people praise the new stuff because its so much faster. hell BMW could have made a 4 cylinder, if its faster its better.

the S65 was a way cooler design of a engine. small V8 with ITB that reved past 8k RPM. But no body values that kind of stuff anymore, all they want is power. leave the S65 stuff to the high end cars i guess. where people value more than just power.

Couldn't agree more - I love my E93 M3 and everything about the S65...if I wanted a TT six to push to its limit, I would have kept my 335...

[Petros]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

Agree to disagree...IMO - and as I stated in my OP, the E9X has more upside to increase HP from stock.

A tuner can take a $35k 20XX M3 and spend $25k in mods and it will handle a 2015 M3/4 with a tune, DP, and exhaust...You can easily find examples of 700+ bhp E9X M3's on youtube, just .

Until someone invents $25k worth of mods for the F80 that will give it over 700 bhp as well. Fact is all of that is useless nonsense anyway. Once you get over 500-600 hp on a RWD car the extra power is essentially useless. You are limited by traction and all that extra power just goes to burn tires faster.

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

With 500 bhp, I'm surprised that the F80 isn't faster. As such I think it is not much faster in the corners vs the prior gen, it really has advantage in the straights. The RC-F pretty much shows a car with similar bhp and big weight disadvantage is actually quicker in the corners in the hand of an expert driver (admittedly Pobst said he can improve his time on the F80). Also at the intermediate level of tracking, I don't believe the F80 blows the doors off the E90 or an E46 for that matter....some advantage in the straights but pretty equivalent in corners, as they weigh about the same. Same goes for supercharged E90s vs non-supercharged. Supercharged not much faster either as power only goes so far if you can't put it down more on average over an entire lap.

In the right hands, I'm sure the full power can be exploited by expert drivers, which it has, but a track isn't a WOT half mile run, power is only useful if can be fully harnessed/handled well by the driver and we know even from the experts that the F80 is not as easy to drive as its predecessors. This is why much smaller, less powerful cars can hang really well on the track with the bhp monsters, and in some ways are more fun (e.g. the E46).

To be honest Pobst spent most of that lap drifting the M4 sideways and countersteering. If he had more practice with throttle modulation on that M4 he might have shaved a second or two from his lap time. No doubt it takes a lot more practice to master a turbo engine than a NA engine. And yes, I agree with you that coilovers, BBK, solid bushings, and a bit of a diet can bridge most of the performance delta of the E9x to the F8x. The F8x chassis is more of an evolution rather than revolution over the E9x.

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

So I guess a 15 year old 2jz TT engine making 900 bhp doesn't even come close to the potential of the new M3/4 turbo engine...in a straight line or the track?

purpose built drag cars?

Originally Posted by Ezio

this is why i no longer care about performance. honda sounding cars and eletric cars are going to smoke everything.

and people praise the new stuff because its so much faster. hell BMW could have made a 4 cylinder, if its faster its better.

the S65 was a way cooler design of a engine. small V8 with ITB that reved past 8k RPM. But no body values that kind of stuff anymore, all they want is power. leave the S65 stuff to the high end cars i guess. where people value more than just power.

To be honest many people never valued that in the first place. I'm pretty sure a lot of the rich doctors and lawyers who got an E92 have no idea that a throttle body is, let alone that their car has 8 of them. Plenty of people bought an E92 simply because it was a fast, luxurious, sporty coupe with a prestigious name and reputation. Don't be surprised if you find a lot of single owner low mileage E92 M3 garage queens that were never revved past 5000 rpm in their entire life

[ASBSECU E93]

Originally Posted by Petros

Until someone invents $25k worth of mods for the F80 that will give it over 700 bhp as well. Fact is all of that is useless nonsense anyway. Once you get over 500-600 hp on a RWD car the extra power is essentially useless. You are limited by traction and all that extra power just goes to burn tires faster.

purpose built drag cars? Drag, Drift, track...still impressive numbers these cars can put down.

To be honest many people never valued that in the first place. I'm pretty sure a lot of the rich doctors and lawyers who got an E92 have no idea that a throttle body is, let alone that their car has 8 of them. Plenty of people bought an E92 simply because it was a fast, luxurious, sporty coupe with a prestigious name and reputation. Don't be surprised if you find a lot of single owner low mileage E92 M3 garage queens that were never revved past 5000 rpm in their entire life

That is EXACTLY the situation of my recently acquired E93 M3

[BOOstJunkee]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

What is this so-called "tuning potential" of the E90 M3 you talk about? Short of supercharging there is hardly any good power upgrades to the engine. The bone stock F80 can gain 60 hp and 70 torque from the newly released Gintani tune alone. As the aftermarket develops for this platform it will outmuscle even a supercharged E90.

Dinan Tuned M4 vs. ESS M3...and a girl was driving the M3

lol.. Insecure E9x M3 owners.
The M4 has just come out. Lets see a race video in another year.
All this S65 V8 talk, yet the e30, e36 and e46 M3s all have proven to be faster than the e9x m3 when modded. Soon enough, the f8x cars will also.
lol at the biggest M3 motor being the slowest of the bunch

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Petros

To be honest many people never valued that in the first place. I'm pretty sure a lot of the rich doctors and lawyers who got an E92 have no idea that a throttle body is, let alone that their car has 8 of them. Plenty of people bought an E92 simply because it was a fast, luxurious, sporty coupe with a prestigious name and reputation. Don't be surprised if you find a lot of single owner low mileage E92 M3 garage queens that were never revved past 5000 rpm in their entire life

thats what i was thinking also.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by BOOstJunkee

lol.. Insecure E9x M3 owners.
The M4 has just come out. Lets see a race video in another year.
All this S65 V8 talk, yet the e30, e36 and e46 M3s all have proven to be faster than the e9x m3 when modded. Soon enough, the f8x cars will also.
lol at the biggest M3 motor being the slowest of the bunch

I am not insecure, more so frustrated that so many people only care about which is faster. which has more gains when modded etc.... like i said, BMW could have put a 4 cylinder engine in, and if it was faster its better.

kind of sad.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by Ezio

I am not insecure, more so frustrated that so many people only care about which is faster. which has more gains when modded etc.... like i said, BMW could have put a 4 cylinder engine in, and if it was faster its better.

kind of sad.

So you're shocked that people who buy "performance" cars expect them to .....gasp...... perform?????

[ASBSECU E93]

At the end of the day - my point is this - S65 engine with a bolt on SC, and a few additional mods has significant upside to extract north of 600 bhp. BMW has never made the M3 to overpower others, simply provide a better overall experience to those that know how to drive...

My other point - all 1st gen BMW cars have "issues", HPFP on the 335i, Rod bearings on the S65, etc...time will tell what the F8X M3/4 achilles heel will be...

[ASBSECU E93]

Originally Posted by BOOstJunkee

lol.. Insecure E9x M3 owners.
The M4 has just come out. Lets see a race video in another year.
All this S65 V8 talk, yet the e30, e36 and e46 M3s all have proven to be faster than the e9x m3 when modded. Soon enough, the f8x cars will also.
lol at the biggest M3 motor being the slowest of the bunch

take a modded Supra with a 2Jz motor and it'll smoke any modded M3 in a straight line from any year made...or take a modded 2.5 WRX STi on a road course against the M3...what's your point..? Drop enough cash into a mod project and a Yugo will beat a M3...

Each Gen M car is faster than it's predecessor - that how it usually works, but it doesn't mean the next gen is better...

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Petros

So you're shocked that people who buy "performance" cars expect them to .....gasp...... perform?????

when i buy a car i look at more than just performance.

When i drive my E92, putting aside the actual performance. i feel a very good connection with the car. When i start the car up, i hear a very mechanical sound. The E92 also makes this wine sound that i love. When give it some gas, i love hearing the change in tone coming from the engine/exhuast and feeling the vibrations. Stuff like that is what i am talking about. IMO this kind of "emotion" is what exotic cars like Lamborghini and Ferrari are all about. anyone with some cash can go grab a GTR, put a downpipe and tune to dust everything on the road.

The car market is going the way of BMW. Where its all about cost cutting, and reducing engine size plus adding turbos. Ferrari even went on record saying how they dont want to go this route. BUT because these new turbo engine have the typical turbo characteristics. which are huge gains with tunes, lots of low end up power etc... people in the masses love them. people like me get shafted. which is why i overtime am starting to careless about performance.

i am the type of person who would take a slower GT3 over a turbo. the GT3 offers performance, and a more emotional engine. oh and i can actually hear the exhaust also, instead of vacuum cleaners.

[BOOstJunkee]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

take a modded Supra with a 2Jz motor and it'll smoke any modded M3 in a straight line from any year made...or take a modded 2.5 WRX STi on a road course against the M3...what's your point..? Drop enough cash into a mod project and a Yugo will beat a M3...

Each Gen M car is faster than it's predecessor - that how it usually works, but it doesn't mean the next gen is better...

So now we are talking about Supras lol.. Your video was about Modded M vs Modded M and so was my comment. Your V8 modded M gets beat by the e30, e36, and e46 when modded. And soon the F8x will do the same. So I don't see your point in speaking on a supercharged e9x because it is not breaking any M records.
Stick to the sound of the V8, because thats probably the only win it gets.

[ASBSECU E93]

Originally Posted by BOOstJunkee

So now we are talking about Supras lol.. Your video was about Modded M vs Modded M and so was my comment. Your V8 modded M gets beat by the e30, e36, and e46 when modded. And soon the F8x will do the same. So I don't see your point in speaking on a supercharged e9x because it is not breaking any M records.
Stick to the sound of the V8, because thats probably the only win it gets.

Apparently you did not read or fully understand my original post/comment. I would think someone that was as interested in a TT option for the E9X M as yourself would see the upside as well...

stick with your much faster F8X M that sounds just like my Sthil chainsaw and good luck with your planned mods...I am perfectly happy with my M.

[BOOstJunkee]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

Apparently you did not read or fully understand my original post/comment. I would think someone that was as interested in a TT option for the E9X M as yourself would see the upside as well...

stick with your much faster F8X M that sounds just like my Sthil chainsaw and good luck with your planned mods...I am perfectly happy with my M.

hahaha... The F8x must have hurt you dearly with the hate you have. Stay away from 335s with that slow and heavy M you have.

[ASBSECU E93]

Originally Posted by BOOstJunkee

hahaha... The F8x must have hurt you dearly with the hate you have. Stay away from 335s with that slow and heavy M you have.

If I wanted a TT inline six - I would have kept my 335i. And the only thing that would be hurting from a new F8X M would be my pocket...

Your more than welcome to join the conversation at the adult table when you actually own a F8X M...until then, keep the poster on your wall and dream every night..."One Day"...

[BOOstJunkee]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

If I wanted a TT inline six - I would have kept my 335i. And the only thing that would be hurting from a new F8X M would be my pocket...

Your more than welcome to join the conversation at the adult table when you actually own a F8X M...until then, keep the poster on your wall and dream every night..."One Day"...

lol @ my posters.. I enjoy your comments. No F8x fanboy here. I'm just not going to bash a platform because I'm stuck on what I drive. All Ms have their pros and cons. You just seem like a hater.

[ASBSECU E93]

No hater here - respect to all car enthusiasts, regardless of choice...just don't really care for my comments getting twisted as mine were directed at the E9X...

BTW - saw a TT E46 that pulled a 130 mph 1/4...pretty damn impressive. That's not yours is it..?

[BOOstJunkee]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

No hater here - respect to all car enthusiasts, regardless of choice...just don't really care for my comments getting twisted as mine were directed at the E9X...

BTW - saw a TT E46 that pulled a 130 mph 1/4...pretty damn impressive. That's not yours is it..?

Gotcha!

Wasn't me. My car was being rebuilt these past few months. The weather has not permitted me to take her to the track yet. But with 800+ whp, I assume I should exceed 130mph in the 1/4.

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by Petros

Not sure about that. I've seen at least a dozen F80 M3/M4. So it seems sales aren't really all that bad.

And by the way BMW did struggle to sell E90 M3. They only sold 66000 worldwide while their initial goal was to sell over 100000 units. Sure, a big part of that had to do with the economic crash in 2008, but still.

I would bet most manufacturers of just about any luxury product weren't meeting their expectations in 2008.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by Ezio

when i buy a car i look at more than just performance.

When i drive my E92, putting aside the actual performance. i feel a very good connection with the car.

An E92 M3 isn't really all that connected to the driver. It's actually a bit numb and isolated compared to many sportier cars, including its own predecessor E46 M3. It's pretty well connected and driver focused for a GT car, but it's no sports car.

When give it some gas, i love hearing the change in tone coming from the engine/exhuast and feeling the vibrations.

Vibrations? Unless you have a broken engine mount, there shouldn't be anything vibrating. Or maybe you mean exhaust noise which can feel like vibrations?

IMO this kind of "emotion" is what exotic cars like Lamborghini and Ferrari are all about.

Actually Ferraris and Lambos and other exotics are about showboating and showing off to your friends how much disposable income you can throw at an impractical and useless toy/penis extender. Without a ferrari or lambo badge those cars wouldn't be worth a third of what they are sold for. If it's about the emotion of driving, how come most supercars are barely driven a few days a year and never accumulate any kind of mileage on them?

anyone with some cash can go grab a GTR, put a downpipe and tune to dust everything on the road.

which makes it even more embarrassing for those who overpay for their euro exotics only to get spanked by a Datsun or a plastic chevy with a v8 engine from the 1960's

The car market is going the way of BMW. Where its all about cost cutting, and reducing engine size plus adding turbos. Ferrari even went on record saying how they dont want to go this route. BUT because these new turbo engine have the typical turbo characteristics. which are huge gains with tunes, lots of low end up power etc... people in the masses love them. people like me get shafted. which is why i overtime am starting to careless about performance.

Funny because despite all this turbo hating every car "enthusiast" drools over a Ferrari F40 as one of the best driver's car ever made.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Petros

An E92 M3 isn't really all that connected to the driver. It's actually a bit numb and isolated compared to many sportier cars, including its own predecessor E46 M3. It's pretty well connected and driver focused for a GT car, but it's no sports car. Vibrations? Unless you have a broken engine mount, there shouldn't be anything vibrating. Or maybe you mean exhaust noise which can feel like vibrations? Actually Ferraris and Lambos and other exotics are about showboating and showing off to your friends how much disposable income you can throw at an impractical and useless toy/penis extender. Without a ferrari or lambo badge those cars wouldn't be worth a third of what they are sold for. If it's about the emotion of driving, how come most supercars are barely driven a few days a year and never accumulate any kind of mileage on them? which makes it even more embarrassing for those who overpay for their euro exotics only to get spanked by a Datsun or a plastic chevy with a v8 engine from the 1960's

Funny because despite all this turbo hating every car "enthusiast" drools over a Ferrari F40 as one of the best driver's car ever made.

you are unbelievable. plz post on the F80 section and leave the E90 section alone. you just dont get it, and i cannot believe we drive the same car.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by Ezio

you are unbelievable. plz post on the F80 section and leave the E90 section alone. you just dont get it, and i cannot believe we drive the same car.

Um, no. You guys are the ones who are unbelievable. So much sour grapes. So much vile hatred for a car most of you haven't even driven yet. No I am not a big fan of the F80. But unlike you I'm not in denial that it is a superior car to the E90 and a step in the right direction.

Or what was your plan? For BMW to keep making the E90 for eternity? And then watch as sales plummet because no one wants to spend 80k on a gas guzzling underpowered V8 that gets spanked by the average Mustang and Camaro on the road? There is a good reason why you guys are not in charge of a car company.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Ezio

when i buy a car i look at more than just performance.

When i drive my E92, putting aside the actual performance. i feel a very good connection with the car. When i start the car up, i hear a very mechanical sound. The E92 also makes this wine sound that i love. When give it some gas, i love hearing the change in tone coming from the engine/exhuast and feeling the vibrations. Stuff like that is what i am talking about. IMO this kind of "emotion" is what exotic cars like Lamborghini and Ferrari are all about. anyone with some cash can go grab a GTR, put a downpipe and tune to dust everything on the road.

The car market is going the way of BMW. Where its all about cost cutting, and reducing engine size plus adding turbos. Ferrari even went on record saying how they dont want to go this route. BUT because these new turbo engine have the typical turbo characteristics. which are huge gains with tunes, lots of low end up power etc... people in the masses love them. people like me get shafted. which is why i overtime am starting to careless about performance.

i am the type of person who would take a slower GT3 over a turbo. the GT3 offers performance, and a more emotional engine. oh and i can actually hear the exhaust also, instead of vacuum cleaners.

Dude, with all due respect, you gotta stop regurgitating what car magazines say, because it doesn't exactly make you more credible. You admit you were born in the 90s. How many cars have you actually had a chance to really drive?

My point is this: Every car magazine will say a GTR or a 911 Turbo is "boring" to drive, but have you actually ever driven one? It's borderline stupid to call what they put in those engine compartments "vacuum cleaners". So I guess we should incinerate all Ferrari F40's then? Because people "supposedly" like you are allergic to turbos? I've had the chance to test drive the M3/4 a couple of times and the last thing I'd call that time with them would be emotionless.

Again, don't get me wrong. I love my E92, and when I say I never plan to get rid of it, I really mean it. But only a fool would say that the car is perfect. Hell, my 16 year old E36 M3 with its bastardized engine does a whole bunch of things than my E92 ever will. Same goes for the M3/4.

Originally Posted by Petros

Um, no. You guys are the ones who are unbelievable. So much sour grapes. So much vile hatred for a car most of you haven't even driven yet. No I am not a big fan of the F80. But unlike you I'm not in denial that it is a superior car to the E90 and a step in the right direction.

Or what was your plan? For BMW to keep making the E90 for eternity? And then watch as sales plummet because no one wants to spend 80k on a gas guzzling underpowered V8 that gets spanked by the average Mustang and Camaro on the road? There is a good reason why you guys are not in charge of a car company.

Agreed. I have no problem for E9x owners to say that they aren't a fan of the new car as long as they have at least driven it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Some of you guys are so blinded it really makes you guys look ridiculous.