F80/F82 sales?

[Dave07997S]

I have to say guys that if I sell my E92 M3 I'm jumping ship and it won't be back to the PCar, it will be back to Ford. I will be getting the GT350 and will learn to live with the shortcoming of the interior. In fact when I see what Ford is doing now in the performance car arena I actually get a little teary, as I am so proud of Ford to be offering such fine machines at a such an affordable price.

I always was a patriot, served over 10 years in the US Army and CA ARNG. I always wanted to buy American. However, if they aren't building the cars I like I wasn't going to reward US automakers with my business. They are now building cars that I am proud to own. I also now own a 2014 Ford Fiesta ST (hoot of a car) and bought my wife a new Ford Escape Titanium which is just an awesome vehicle for the money.

Dave

[rantarM3]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

I have to say guys that if I sell my E92 M3 I'm jumping ship and it won't be back to the PCar it will be back to Ford. I will be getting the GT350 and will learn to live with the shortcoming of the interior. In fact when I see what Ford is doing now in the performance car arena I actually get a little teary as I am so proud of Ford to be offering such fine machines at a such an affordable price.

[car_fan]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

The exterior rubber trim that surrounds the rear window on the E9X is not present on the F80's. It's still used on at least the 7 series and I believe also the 5 series. Here's a list of some things that have been removed over the years:

1) E36 to E46 - the M colored leather stripes stitched into the seats were eliminated in favor of a pretty lame stamped M logo on the front headrests.
2) E46 to E9X - the under hood insulation was eliminated. When I purchased my E36 M3, the dealer claimed that the insulation would fall onto the engine in case of a fire and help extinguish the flames. I guess it was just marketing talk or they now don't care if the engine catches fire.
3) E36 to E46 - spare tire removed in favor of the inflation kit.
4) E9X to F80 - rear window trim eliminated.
5) E9X to F80 - notice the change in construction of the rear trunk hinges. They've gone to what most other manufacturers use, which is a spring loaded mechanism incorporated within the hinge. Previously, the hinges were pretty robust pieces of metal with gas pressurized springs. BMW used to profess how strong their hinges were and now moved to something more economical.

I understand that the new cars have more standard equipment but some of the things they remove make the car feel much cheaper, IMO. It seems BMW figured out that most buyers don't look at such details.

There is a bunch more "de contenting" in the F82 vs. E92 than what you have mentionied i.e rear seat console with integrated interior lighting and vents imparting more of a coupe feel; fold out door pockets on the front doors; "fore/aft" adjustable front/center arm rest, you could also say Harmon Kardon vs. EPS is a down grade as well - flame suit on, with an extinguisher nearby LOL

But then again they were trying to save weight right?

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by car_fan

There is a bunch more "de contenting" in the F82 vs. E92 than what you have mentionied i.e rear seat console with integrated interior lighting and vents imparting more of a coupe feel; fold out door pockets on the front doors; "fore/aft" adjustable front/center arm rest, you could also say Harmon Kardon vs. EPS is a down grade as well - flame suit on, with an extinguisher nearby LOL

But then again they were trying to save weight right?

i sat in a loaded M4 the other week. compared to my loaded E92. I simply prefer the the E92, for overall layout and feel.

Sure the F80 has a feel more electrics and new gadgets. but I don't care about that kind of stuff.

the fold out door pockets IMO is clearly something that the E90 has over the F80.

I don't understand why more people don't see this.

[BrewRifle]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i sat in a loaded M4 the other week. compared to my loaded E92. I simply prefer the the E92, for overall layout and feel.

Sure the F80 has a feel more electrics and new gadgets. but I don't care about that kind of stuff.

the fold out door pockets IMO is clearly something that the E90 has over the F80.

I don't understand why more people don't see this.

People get blindsided by the new shiny things.

[RR-NYC]

They dont have 35 M4's... according to their online inventory, they have 36!

Thats crazy

[car_fan]

Originally Posted by BrewRifle

People get blindsided by the new shiny things.

Ditto; the thing is the cost of technolgy i.e. High resolution NAV screens, stuff like side sensors (blind spot monitors) and back up cameras are no longer high end exclusive options. Hell you can get a new Corolla with LED headlights now.


I am happy that BMW made sure the F80/F82 ///M's are able to run strong, but I lament, at least in my eyes, the omission of some of the original character. As has been discussed "ad nauseam" demands for fuel efficiency run the day.

[mxa121]

They seem to be selling just fine in GA, I see them all the time. I actually saw one in PTC last night, Alpine White M4 with Akra. It was a damn fine looking car. It made my E92 M look small and insignificant. The ONLY thing I could say to myself was, "yeah, well mine sounds better!" LOL

People complaining about door pockets and window trim, seriously?
People complaining about 'Japanese' styling cues? How about fake fender vents in the E9x M?
Tough crowd.

[ASBSECU E93]

The true test will be in the future re-sale value of the new F8x M's once the "issues" with the engine set-up are commonly known...the N/A E46 M's have become sought after because of the bulletproof nature of their motors, and the more raw/fundamental nature of the car over technology. With a few mods the car is a beast too.

The E9X M's do not have the low end torque of the new M 3/4's, however they do seem to have more upside for HP/Torque potential via modding...Even when considering the very small risk to the rod bearings, a supercharger upgrade to a E9X M and you'll OWN a new F8X M3/4...

Not sure how much additional you can push out of the new M's turbo six without issues...

[STALKER]

I've owned last there gens of M3s. Not feeling the current model because it's far to large for my needs, and frankly I don't find the styling very appealing, it's too busy.

In Canada, when I spec'd it out, came just under $90k. Now it's hard to find another car with it's power, performance, and use ability at the price....but still not doing it for me.

I made the jump to a Pcar 2 years ago, their pricing is truly stupid, but their cars are awesome.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

The true test will be in the future re-sale value of the new F8x M's once the "issues" with the engine set-up are commonly known...the N/A E46 M's have become sought after because of the bulletproof nature of their motors, and the more raw/fundamental nature of the car over technology. With a few mods the car is a beast too.

The E9X M's do not have the low end torque of the new M 3/4's, however they do seem to have more upside for HP/Torque potential via modding...Even when considering the very small risk to the rod bearings, a supercharger upgrade to a E9X M and you'll OWN a new F8X M3/4...

Not sure how much additional you can push out of the new M's turbo six without issues...

What makes you think the F80 has "issues"? E46 M3 may be "sought after" but that didn't keep their values from dropping like a rock.

What is this so-called "tuning potential" of the E90 M3 you talk about? Short of supercharging there is hardly any good power upgrades to the engine. The bone stock F80 can gain 60 hp and 70 torque from the newly released Gintani tune alone. As the aftermarket develops for this platform it will outmuscle even a supercharged E90.

Originally Posted by STALKER

I've owned last there gens of M3s. Not feeling the current model because it's far to large for my needs, and frankly I don't find the styling very appealing, it's too busy.

In Canada, when I spec'd it out, came just under $90k. Now it's hard to find another car with it's power, performance, and use ability at the price....but still not doing it for me.

I made the jump to a Pcar 2 years ago, their pricing is truly stupid, but their cars are awesome.

Actually the F80 is lighter than the E90, though not by much.The E90 is the heaviest M3 ever made to date, and will probably hold on to this unwanted title for quite a long time.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by Petros

What makes you think the F80 has "issues"? E46 M3 may be "sought after" but that didn't keep their values from dropping like a rock.

What is this so-called "tuning potential" of the E90 M3 you talk about? Short of supercharging there is hardly any good power upgrades to the engine. The bone stock F80 can gain 60 hp and 70 torque from the newly released Gintani tune alone. As the aftermarket develops for this platform it will outmuscle even a supercharged E90.

So what if you can extract more power with a tune? You can't get that power to the ground until you are like at 100mph or so. So all that tuned power will basically be cut by the traction/stability mechanisms.

Turbo engines really aren't suited for RWD cars IMO, especially front mounted engines. If you want forced induction on a RWD car, the progressive nature of supercharging is a better way to go.

[ASBSECU E93]

Originally Posted by Petros

What makes you think the F80 has "issues"? E46 M3 may be "sought after" but that didn't keep their values from dropping like a rock.

What is this so-called "tuning potential" of the E90 M3 you talk about? Short of supercharging there is hardly any good power upgrades to the engine. The bone stock F80 can gain 60 hp and 70 torque from the newly released Gintani tune alone. As the aftermarket develops for this platform it will outmuscle even a supercharged E90.

Actually the F80 is lighter than the E90, though not by much.The E90 is the heaviest M3 ever made to date, and will probably hold on to this unwanted title for quite a long time.

...So, every 1st gen series car BMW has made has had ZERO issues?? As I said, time will tell what "future" issues the first gen F8X M car will have...if that is ZERO, then good for them...

You made my point however...E9X M + Supercharger = greater upside than current gen F8X M...F8X M can't add displacement, only more boost...

Pick up a "cheap" 2008-2010 E9X M, Rebuild the bottom half of the engine to handle the boost, and it'll walk all over a new F8X M...and you'll have enough left over to pick up a another car as a daily. I believe there may be a couple of the M3's with this setup circulating on youtube.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Petros

Actually the F80 is lighter than the E90, though not by much.The E90 is the heaviest M3 ever made to date, and will probably hold on to this unwanted title for quite a long time.

probably 90% of people buying a M3 dont really want or care if the car is truly light weight or not. my self included.

all i ask for is the car to be somewhat lightweight, and there is a point of the car being to small/light(for safety reasons) and to heavy. i think the F80 weight, and e90 weight are both fine by me.

the e90 will go down in history and be remembered for its V8 engine. people also forget the E90 was the lightest car in segment.

[ASBSECU E93]

What is this so-called "tuning potential" of the E90 M3 you talk about? Short of supercharging there is hardly any good power upgrades to the engine. The bone stock F80 can gain 60 hp and 70 torque from the newly released Gintani tune alone. As the aftermarket develops for this platform it will outmuscle even a supercharged E90.

Dinan Tuned M4 vs. ESS M3...and a girl was driving the M3

[STALKER]

Originally Posted by Petros

What makes you think the F80 has "issues"? E46 M3 may be "sought after" but that didn't keep their values from dropping like a rock.

What is this so-called "tuning potential" of the E90 M3 you talk about? Short of supercharging there is hardly any good power upgrades to the engine. The bone stock F80 can gain 60 hp and 70 torque from the newly released Gintani tune alone. As the aftermarket develops for this platform it will outmuscle even a supercharged E90.

Actually the F80 is lighter than the E90, though not by much.The E90 is the heaviest M3 ever made to date, and will probably hold on to this unwanted title for quite a long time.

I never said anything about the weight.

The current M3 feels more like a 5 series to me almost. It's to large for my taste. That's the point I was making. Kudos to BMW for making it lighter.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

What is this so-called "tuning potential" of the E90 M3 you talk about? Short of supercharging there is hardly any good power upgrades to the engine. The bone stock F80 can gain 60 hp and 70 torque from the newly released Gintani tune alone. As the aftermarket develops for this platform it will outmuscle even a supercharged E90.

Dinan Tuned M4 vs. ESS M3...and a girl was driving the M3

So a fully maxed out supercharged E92 with the superior DCT auto barely got a slightest edge over a F82 with the inferior MT gearbox and just a Dinan tune (which is one of the weaker tunes)? Just a mere upgrade to the new Gintani tune and that M4 would have won. That's not even taking into account potential future upgrades for the M4 in terms of turbos, downpipe, injectors, etc........

That's just in a straight line. Add a few corners and the E92 would have been left in the dust.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

...So, every 1st gen series car BMW has made has had ZERO issues?? As I said, time will tell what "future" issues the first gen F8X M car will have...if that is ZERO, then good for them...

You made my point however...E9X M + Supercharger = greater upside than current gen F8X M...F8X M can't add displacement, only more boost...

Pick up a "cheap" 2008-2010 E9X M, Rebuild the bottom half of the engine to handle the boost, and it'll walk all over a new F8X M...and you'll have enough left over to pick up a another car as a daily. I believe there may be a couple of the M3's with this setup circulating on youtube.

Pick up a "cheap" 20 year old civic, add $10k of mods, and you'll walk all over an E9x M3.

Fact is the F80 has almost 500 crank hp stock. A tune alone can add 60 hp or so to that. There's likely even more performance to be had with upgraded turbos, downpipes, etc. That will put it on par with the best supercharger kits for the E90. Of course the F80 will still have a massive torque advantage. Not to mention better brakes and chassis translating to better handling. Heck, a purely stock F8x is as fast as the GTS, which is the pinnacle of E9x performance tuning.

People have to be objective and admit it. The E9x M3 had good performance when it came out back then in 2007. But things have moved on since then. Cars now are far more capable and in a whole different league than they were 7 years ago.

[ASBSECU E93]

Originally Posted by Petros

So a fully maxed out supercharged E92 with the superior DCT auto barely got a slightest edge over a F82 with the inferior MT gearbox and just a Dinan tune (which is one of the weaker tunes)? Just a mere upgrade to the new Gintani tune and that M4 would have won. That's not even taking into account potential future upgrades for the M4 in terms of turbos, downpipe, injectors, etc........

That's just in a straight line. Add a few corners and the E92 would have been left in the dust.

Agree to disagree...IMO - and as I stated in my OP, the E9X has more upside to increase HP from stock.

A tuner can take a $35k 20XX M3 and spend $25k in mods and it will handle a 2015 M3/4 with a tune, DP, and exhaust...You can easily find examples of 700+ bhp E9X M3's on youtube, just .

[FogCityM3]

With 500 bhp, I'm surprised that the F80 isn't faster. As such I think it is not much faster in the corners vs the prior gen, it really has advantage in the straights. The RC-F pretty much shows a car with similar bhp and big weight disadvantage is actually quicker in the corners in the hand of an expert driver (admittedly Pobst said he can improve his time on the F80). Also at the intermediate level of tracking, I don't believe the F80 blows the doors off the E90 or an E46 for that matter....some advantage in the straights but pretty equivalent in corners, as they weigh about the same. Same goes for supercharged E90s vs non-supercharged. Supercharged not much faster either as power only goes so far if you can't put it down more on average over an entire lap.

In the right hands, I'm sure the full power can be exploited by expert drivers, which it has, but a track isn't a WOT half mile run, power is only useful if can be fully harnessed/handled well by the driver and we know even from the experts that the F80 is not as easy to drive as its predecessors. This is why much smaller, less powerful cars can hang really well on the track with the bhp monsters, and in some ways are more fun (e.g. the E46).

Originally Posted by Petros

Pick up a "cheap" 20 year old civic, add $10k of mods, and you'll walk all over an E9x M3.

Fact is the F80 has almost 500 crank hp stock. A tune alone can add 60 hp or so to that. There's likely even more performance to be had with upgraded turbos, downpipes, etc. That will put it on par with the best supercharger kits for the E90. Of course the F80 will still have a massive torque advantage. Not to mention better brakes and chassis translating to better handling. Heck, a purely stock F8x is as fast as the GTS, which is the pinnacle of E9x performance tuning.

People have to be objective and admit it. The E9x M3 had good performance when it came out back then in 2007. But things have moved on since then. Cars now are far more capable and in a whole different league than they were 7 years ago.

[ASBSECU E93]

Originally Posted by Petros

Pick up a "cheap" 20 year old civic, add $10k of mods, and you'll walk all over an E9x M3.

Fact is the F80 has almost 500 crank hp stock. A tune alone can add 60 hp or so to that. There's likely even more performance to be had with upgraded turbos, downpipes, etc. That will put it on par with the best supercharger kits for the E90. Of course the F80 will still have a massive torque advantage. Not to mention better brakes and chassis translating to better handling. Heck, a purely stock F8x is as fast as the GTS, which is the pinnacle of E9x performance tuning.

People have to be objective and admit it. The E9x M3 had good performance when it came out back then in 2007. But things have moved on since then. Cars now are far more capable and in a whole different league than they were 7 years ago.[/B]

So I guess a 15 year old 2jz TT engine making 900 bhp doesn't even come close to the potential of the new M3/4 turbo engine...in a straight line or the track?

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

What is this so-called "tuning potential" of the E90 M3 you talk about? Short of supercharging there is hardly any good power upgrades to the engine. The bone stock F80 can gain 60 hp and 70 torque from the newly released Gintani tune alone. As the aftermarket develops for this platform it will outmuscle even a supercharged E90.

Dinan Tuned M4 vs. ESS M3...and a girl was driving the M3

this is why i no longer care about performance. honda sounding cars and eletric cars are going to smoke everything.

and people praise the new stuff because its so much faster. hell BMW could have made a 4 cylinder, if its faster its better.

the S65 was a way cooler design of a engine. small V8 with ITB that reved past 8k RPM. But no body values that kind of stuff anymore, all they want is power. leave the S65 stuff to the high end cars i guess. where people value more than just power.