Anyone else real dissapointed by m3?

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by chungdae

$90k. Wow. Should have just gotten a GTR. I bought my M3 and kept it stock and bought something that beats every single production road car, including the Veyron.

+1

I have heard that top speed on an stock M3 is close to 300 MPH.

CA

[persian54]

Originally Posted by dexx

This car is just being ruined with mods. I rarely ever see anybody get mods right, myself included.


"You're doing it wrong"

Yes and no

I personally feel that adding a front lip and a rear diffuser really helps compliment the already gorgeous styling of the M3.

Wheels are great as well, but depends what kind of wheels.
I love the 220M and the ZCP wheels; not a big fan of the 18in ones though

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

+1

I have heard that top speed on an stock M3 is close to 300 MPH.

CA

And the ZCP takes it to 350MPH.

[checkmate]

Different strokes for different folks

[OC3]

Originally Posted by erhanh

And the ZCP takes it to 350MPH.

[Dustin@AEp]

Originally Posted by erhanh

And the ZCP takes it to 350MPH.

I believe he's talking about his BMW S1000R bike

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by Dustin@AEperformance

I believe he's talking about his BMW S1000R bike

So? Put ZCP on that bike and you'll do 400mph

[OC3]

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by shift@red

I never said the 911 wasnt a handful at the limit...youve got to be quick to catch it. Again, you become a better drive when tracking one whereas the M3 doesnt do anything but mask mistakes as it is built to be very tame on the edge. And, furthermore, the 911 has higher overall limits (even more so in the GTX Porsche cases) than an M3, so whereas out of 100, the M3s full capability might be say a 90/100 overall, the C2S is a 93/100. The higher the limits the more difficult its going to be to able to correct yourself if something goes wrong.



No one is saying the M3 isnt best of its class and isnt a great performer all things considered.

I guess you should be bowing down to the Panamera Turbo then, because given that it weighs 4600 lbs, it will outhandle and out track the M3, and does it while being balanced, refined, and more luxurious than a 7 series and will run with or surpass most sports cars and exotics even though its a big sedan.

That must also mean that youre willing to admit the Mustang 5.0 is right on par with the M3? Track times, straight line and handling are all about equal. And all for about 1/2 the price of an M3.

Tracking a 911 you become an expert at driving a rear wheel drive layout,that's it.You don't necessarily become a better driver,just a different style of driver.You have to adapt to the car and what it likes.Late braking and getting on the gas early are two biggest advantages the 911 has.

The M3 does not mask bad driving.It's suspension geometry and balance are so good it begs you to push even further without the fear of it getting away from you.No matter how good of a driver you are you don't want to be sideways in a 911 at 100mph,.Yes the 911 may have slight advantage on overall grip if any but once it runs out and you're introduced to mr.snap oversteer,it usually ruins your day.I'll trade a bit of overall grip for better balance and controllable slides any day of the week.Not to mention the price tags.

Ford did a great job on the 5.0.I like that car and for the money,It cant be beat

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by sameh

on a lighter note: I am really enjoying this thread and learning alot from it. As much as I love my M3, I've grown up dreaming of owning a Porsche as well and while the one I want is $70K more than what I paid for my M3 I always wondered how will it feel driving it since I never have..now I'm getting a better picture
Note to self "Don't trade your m3 into a GT3, but get the GT3 on top of M3"

I'm assuming you're talking about the GT3.It's an incredible machine.And when you get behind the wheel for the first time,you'll wonder why all manufacturers don't build their sports cars to this level.The cockpit layout is perfect for driving and driving only.The pedals are spaced perfectly for heal and toe.The shifter is second to none..I can go on and on.But one this must be considered even though I used mine almost like a DD( I could not stop driving it).You want a second car for every day duties.Don't sell the M3 for one,you will miss the everyday usability of the BMW.I plan on getting another one once I pay off my e92 in about 4 years.

[Serious]

Originally Posted by KTM505SX

The M3 does not mask bad driving.It's suspension geometry and balance are so good it begs you to push even further without the fear of it getting away from you.No matter how good of a driver you are you don't want to be sideways in a 911 at 100mph,.Yes the 911 may have slight advantage on overall grip if any but once it runs out and you're introduced to mr.snap oversteer,it usually ruins your day.I'll trade a bit of overall grip for better balance and controllable slides any day of the week.Not to mention the price tags.

Yes it does. In fact it is probably the best RWD car in the world at masking bad driving.

Also you views of vehicle dynamics is flawed. The 911 is one of the most resilient cars to snap oversteer, that stereotype of the 911 lives on because inexperienced drivers typically lift in an oversteer situation; the combination of a massive rear weight bias and in particular the toe curve of the pre-996 rear suspension design led to these lift induced spins which propagated the stereotype.

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by Serious

Yes it does. In fact it is probably the best RWD car in the world at masking bad driving.

In other words the car is over engineered and does what it's supposed to do( stay on the road) with ease.I would take that as a compliment if I designed this car.There is nothing wrong a car that goes where you put it,fun to control at the limit and put the power efficiently.After all this is what all manufacturers strive for and M3 is does it best amongst its rivals.

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by shift@red

I happen to like the suspension and geometry of the 911...not as good as the GTx Porsches, but still better than most cars.

Having owned a GT3, you know first hand its suspension geometry is far better than anything BMW.

The 'snap oversteer' isnt something that prevelent in todays 911s. The suspension geometry, engine placement (moving more towards the middle), and tires, and in some cases AWD have all helped to all but cure it.

If it was so bad, Porsche wouldnt be owning the competition in racing the way it has for 50+ years.



+1. As I said above, the snap oversteer isnt something that is as resilient these days as it once was. Refer to above.

Iv'e experienced the snap oversteer first hand at the Streets of Willow and it was a handful to control.No lift off,just powerslide out of the turn.The Problem with the GT3 is it comes with PSC which are great when they grip.But almost like full slicks when they let go,it's not a gradual release like PS2's.

I agree today's RWD 911's are lot less prone to the snap oversteer but the bad trait is still there when push comes to shove.Porsche has not fixed that flaw completely YET.

[Serious]

Originally Posted by KTM505SX

In other words the car is over engineered and does what it's supposed to do( stay on the road) with ease.I would take that as a compliment if I designed this car.There is nothing wrong a car that goes where you put it,fun to control at the limit and put the power efficiently.After all this is what all manufacturers strive for and M3 is does it best amongst its rivals.

Yes the m3 is a fantastic handling car, but in its design makes certain compromises leaves some performance on the table. A 911 makes less of these compromises and has greater performance potential as a package.

Besides with the combination of chassis control electronics & multilink rear suspension you can be pretty daft behind the wheel of a 911 and it wont bite you.

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by Serious

Yes the m3 is a fantastic handling car, but in its design makes certain compromises leaves some performance on the table. A 911 makes less of these compromises and has greater performance potential as a package.

Besides with the combination of chassis control electronics & multilink rear suspension you can be pretty daft behind the wheel of a 911 and it wont bite you.

BMW has to make compromises with the M3 in order to deliver a car that will do everything good.

How much performance can BMW dish out without loosing everyday usability for 4 and a price tag of 60K?

I'm sure at a imaginary price tag of 90K BMW can build an M3 that will make less compromises and put down better numbers,while retaining everyday usability.But the M3 has always been priced where everyday hard working people can afford.Not just the doctors and lawyers.

The 911 is a bit more focused towards performance yes,but at a cost premium and a loss of everyday practicality.

Either way you look at it they are both great at what they do.The M3 deserves its shine just as much as the 911.The end

[J BONE]

Originally Posted by KTM505SX

Either way you look at it they are both great at what they do.The M3 deserves its shine just as much as the 911.The end

Thread Closed.

[crackberry]

Originally Posted by shift@red

I never said the 911 wasnt a handful at the limit...youve got to be quick to catch it. Again, you become a better drive when tracking one whereas the M3 doesnt do anything but mask mistakes as it is built to be very tame on the edge. And, furthermore, the 911 has higher overall limits (even more so in the GTX Porsche cases) than an M3, so whereas out of 100, the M3s full capability might be say a 90/100 overall, the C2S is a 93/100. The higher the limits the more difficult its going to be to able to correct yourself if something goes wrong.



No one is saying the M3 isnt best of its class and isnt a great performer all things considered.

I guess you should be bowing down to the Panamera Turbo then, because given that it weighs 4600 lbs, it will outhandle and out track the M3, and does it while being balanced, refined, and more luxurious than a 7 series and will run with or surpass most sports cars and exotics even though its a big sedan.

That must also mean that youre willing to admit the Mustang 5.0 is right on par with the M3? Track times, straight line and handling are all about equal. And all for about 1/2 the price of an M3.

[crackberry]

Originally Posted by KTM505SX

BMW has to make compromises with the M3 in order to deliver a car that will do everything good.

How much performance can BMW dish out without loosing everyday usability for 4 and a price tag of 60K?

I'm sure at a imaginary price tag of 90K BMW can build an M3 that will make less compromises and put down better numbers,while retaining everyday usability.But the M3 has always been priced where everyday hard working people can afford.Not just the doctors and lawyers.
The 911 is a bit more focused towards performance yes,but at a cost premium and a loss of everyday practicality.

Either way you look at it they are both great at what they do.The M3 deserves its shine just as much as the 911.The end

lol, jealous?


on a more general note:
for the cost of practicality, backseats, you get HUGE returns in performance. im talking night and day difference. iono why m3 owners keep faulting pcars for their practicality. according to many on the forum, they almost never use the backseats (since they have no friends :P). lol, why brag about something that you never use? if i were other ppl on this forum who are fed up with m going turbo, id check out a cayman. its everything the m3 is, except it does it better (except for 0-60 times, but thats not what the m3 is about, so its all good).

to the OP, maybe getting a cayman and putting the c2s engine in it might have been a better use of money? now that would be an amazing car

[jmflukeiii]

^agreed. I don't use my backseat for anything. Well actually I had a person ride in it once, but usually its just me. I just saw a new Porsche Turbo S blacked out at the gym.... made me a little envious.... until I walked around the corner and saw my car and realized how much better looking it is.

[crackberry]

Originally Posted by jmflukeiii

^agreed. I don't use my backseat for anything. Well actually I had a person ride in it once, but usually its just me. I just saw a new Porsche Turbo S blacked out at the gym.... made me a little envious.... until I walked around the corner and saw my car and realized how much better looking it is.

for sure. i would fault the car of its looks to. the fact that the looks arent changing that much doesnt help. its hard to find a color that looks good on the 911. but, to each his own...

im still deciding between midnight blue or porsche racing green metallic.

[CAPSGOD]

I think it is a good-looking car.. but I also like the GTR so what do I know

[ES_TRADER]

Originally Posted by KTM505SX

I'm sure at a imaginary price tag of 90K BMW can build an M3 that will make less compromises and put down better numbers,while retaining everyday usability.But the M3 has always been priced where everyday hard working people can afford.Not just the doctors and lawyers.

At this rate, if history proves to repeat itself, i think a 90k M3 isnt too far away....It WAS, however, priced where most could afford....10 years ago it was stickered @ 45k....present day, 72k....in 2020, probably looking @ 92k...your number might just be SPOT ON and not just "imaginary"