Update on M DCT "lag" issue

[Adonislike]

Thanks swamp. I was to have the update done last week. Now after reading all this, Im glad I waited. Making another appt tommorw.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by linsm3

I had to beg, am I getting this treatment because I'm a girl and why are they being so unwilling to install this.

No, don't worry, most everyone else is and/or will get the same type of treatment.

Part of BMW NA's business model is to conceal costly warranty related issues and other costly obligations from consumers and employees at their franchised sales outlets as well as they possibly can. This allows them to run their business at a higher profit margin than they otherwise would and indeed partially contributes to the fact that we have the least expensive BMWs in the world here in the US. Unfortunately, it also means that we have to go through a big song and dance to get results. And it means dealing with the denial and/or cold shoulder at the dealership. Just stay tuned here. Once this reaches critical mass and plausible deniability is no longer an option, you'll start to see results.

And on that note a huge thank you to folks like GT3 Tim and swamp2 who spend the time and effort to put the screws to their dealerships. And of course, thank you for BMWM.D. for taking his job as seriously as he does, for staying up-to-date on the issue, and for offering to do the install without hassle.

[nitramsen]

I don’t know but is it not completely crazy to post all of these direct links to bmwtis.com. Soon or later BMW will get tired of being slap with information indented for internal use and block the access.

Especially with something like the roundtable which obviously is not intended for us. When I posted the SIB on the RoundTable I did not link it for a reason, as I think that we can all benefit from access to info like this, but does anyone really think that BMW wants documents like this indexed on Google?

A little off topic I know but without SIB information in the future we will not be able to have discussions like this.

[dar2008]

Originally Posted by nitramsen

I don’t know but is it not completely crazy to post all of these direct links to bmwtis.com. Soon or later BMW will get tired of being slap with information indented for internal use and block the access.

Especially with something like the roundtable which obviously is not intended for us. When I posted the SIB on the RoundTable I did not link it for a reason, as I think that we can all benefit from access to info like this, but does anyone really think that BMW wants documents like this indexed on Google?

A little off topic I know but without SIB information in the future we will not be able to have discussions like this.

I don't think we need to worry about this. BMW have obviously allowed these links to be accessed by anyone anywhere. I'm sure they could have made them more secure if they had chosen to.

[nitramsen]

Originally Posted by dar2008

I don't think we need to worry about this. BMW have obviously allowed these links to be accessed by anyone anywhere. I'm sure they could have made them more secure if they had chosen to.

But see with links google will start indexing them(BMW never published any public links to the data as fare as I know) and what will BMW say when all of the sudden the first result is a link to the roundtable when someone searches for BMW DCT? (I like information access but will they?)

I am sure that they will change their minds about leaving the SIB open if they start showing up on google in masses, They blocked ALLDATAdiy.com a few years back so why will they allow this?

[dar2008]

Originally Posted by nitramsen

... and what will BMW say when all of the sudden the first result is a link to the roundtable when someone searches for BMW DCT?

I don't know and frankly I don't care. What I do care about is this DCT lag issue, and anything that helps us isolate the fix is to be welcomed.

[nitramsen]

Originally Posted by dar2008

I don't know and frankly I don't care. What I do care about is this DCT lag issue, and anything that helps us isolate the fix is to be welcomed.

I completely Agree with you and that is why I posted the SIB for the roundtable. But do we really need to take the risk of not being able to do this for future issues just because we want the Lag issue fixed?
Remember that this could easly be done differently not triggering indexing by search engines.

Anyone could read a few post higher how to access any SIB wihtout needing to post any links so why take the chance of data being blocked.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by nitramsen

But do we really need to take the risk of not being able to do this for future issues just because we want the Lag issue fixed? Remember that this could easly be done differently not triggering indexing by search engines.

Anyone could read a few post higher how to access any SIB wihtout needing to post any links so why take the chance of data being blocked.

A fair point nitramsen, especially given that the last component of the TSB URL (before the actual page name) sounds suspiciously like a staging area or something.

Do subscribers to this site get access to TSBs? Or are they supposed to remain hidden even to those people? If the latter then I'd say this is definitely a loophole BMW will seek to close once/if they are made aware. If the former then its still something they are probably already aware of. They do have a disclaimer on the sign-up page about sharing accounts being forbidden. While this is not strictly the same thing as sharing an account, I imagine they would suspend the account of anyone who shares the URLs - if they can determine who did it, that is.

I was able to find a few other such URLs via google also. Its definitely a poor choice on their part not to protect the URLs but I have to believe they know about it. Its just a matter of whether they know about the TSB part specifically.

[aus]

Originally Posted by nitramsen

I don’t know but is it not completely crazy to post all of these direct links to bmwtis.com. Soon or later BMW will get tired of being slap with information indented for internal use and block the access.

Especially with something like the roundtable which obviously is not intended for us. When I posted the SIB on the RoundTable I did not link it for a reason, as I think that we can all benefit from access to info like this, but does anyone really think that BMW wants documents like this indexed on Google?

A little off topic I know but without SIB information in the future we will not be able to have discussions like this.

BMW could EASILY put a password on that site. They chose not to.

[nitramsen]

Originally Posted by aus

BMW could EASILY put a password on that site. They chose not to.

And that is the issue.

[dar2008]

Originally Posted by nitramsen

And that is the issue.

Their issue, not yours, not mine. Now please, can we get back and keep on topic?

[GT3 Tim]

Originally Posted by BMWM.D.

I am definitely not an attorney, but in order to lemon law a car in California, you usually need to have 3 repair ATTEMPTS. This means that the dealership has to perform some type of repair to fix the problem. A "normal operating characteristic" or "no problem found" does not constitute a repair. If the car is programmed, that is considered a repair attempt.

That is why I keep taking my car back in for repair of the lag issue.

This will be the fourth time.

From memory, if a safety related issue is not corrected in TWO attempts, you can go through the Lemon Law process.

If it is another non-safety issue, it is FOUR failed repair attempts.

This will be the fourth time I am bringing the car in for eliminating the lag. I am trying to give BMW the benefit of the doubt here and FIX it as I really do enjoy the car otherwise. However, I am at the end of my rope now, and I am not going to compromise my safety, or that of my passengers, any longer.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by aus

BMW could EASILY put a password on that site. They chose not to.

And most likely, even if they did, some nice fellow like BMWM.D. who has the access needed will share pertinent information with us. I hate to say it but the internet is a wonderful thing.

[Steveo]

Swamp,

I'm getting the lag mentioned and looking for information to take to the dealer, where does it specifically state in the SIB that the dealer must update the DCT software?

Originally Posted by swamp2

Guys (and gals), there is much reason to be very positive. However you will also have to be tough. We have two contributors to lag here. One is the "hose" issue (link here) and one is the DCT software. Both causes REQUIRE fixes by the latest SI B's. It seems that if both of these are addressed the lag is mostly to entirely fixed. Don't take "no" for an answer. I am going to ask that BOTH issues be examined in my service visit on Wednesday. I'll be printing out the SI B's directly from the BMW site before I go in. Those links are here for your convenience to do the same.

Software link here (pdf download). From the SI B 06 06 09 link here.


"Hose" SI B 13 05 08 link here.

One key thing to note is that the hose issue will cause the Service Engine Soon lamp (and various faults to be stored) whereas the lack of the latest DCT software update causes no faults. The latter contributes to the unwillingness of BMW to do a software update, along with the conflicting (older/superceded) SI B that says to NOT update the software.

[nitramsen]

Originally Posted by nitramsen

tell him to read/see the Service Roundtable: June 2009 Show (first post).

Originally Posted by swamp2

Is there an official source for this (online) and SIB? Does it supercede the "don't update software instructions"?

Originally Posted by nitramsen

yes, SIB060609

Let see how long these links work when 200 people starts reading them.

My guess is that they will slab you with SIB280708 and tell you to stop breaking so hard when you complain that the software update did not resolve the issue.

Originally Posted by swamp2

And most likely, even if they did, some nice fellow like BMWM.D. who has the access needed will share pertinent information with us. I hate to say it but the internet is a wonderful thing.

Is it not funny that less than 24 hours ago you really needed creditable information to convince your dealer and now that you have it does not matter (and your post asking for the info disappears)?

I am hoping that BMW is not tracking the usage of their internal SIB’s because if they are I am pretty sure that even if the current access is intentionally the will review their policy to avoid indexing.

[aus]

Originally Posted by dar2008

Their issue, not yours, not mine. Now please, can we get back and keep on topic?

THANK YOU!!!
If it so secrete, BMW would have put a password on it.

[aus]

Originally Posted by swamp2

And most likely, even if they did, some nice fellow like BMWM.D. who has the access needed will share pertinent information with us. I hate to say it but the internet is a wonderful thing.

You are absolutely correct. I have a Honda and ALL the dealer updates are posted on the net and they have a password type systems for their SIB's.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Aren't BMW oblidged to allow access to certain information?
http://www.bmwtechinfo.com/

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by nitramsen

Is it not funny that less than 24 hours ago you really needed creditable information to convince your dealer and now that you have it does not matter (and your post asking for the info disappears)?

I am hoping that BMW is not tracking the usage of their internal SIB’s because if they are I am pretty sure that even if the current access is intentionally the will review their policy to avoid indexing.

I have no idea what you are getting at.

I deleted a post recently in another thread because I had misquoted someone (the quote was correct but the user name was swapped). After editing it I lost the original post so just scrapped it entirely. As far as I can tell my request for this information is still right here in this very thread, see my post #48.

We get the point. You don't want the links public and indexed. Others disagree. I did not post the original post with instructions on exactly where to get SI B's online and the instructions on how to get any of them simply given the SI B number. I also don't plan on removing my posts with the links. Many folks have thanked me for these and they should help folks with this current issue at hand. I could honestly care less if BMW "shuts down" that system from public access on the internet. We will still get the information, period.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Steveo

I'm getting the lag mentioned and looking for information to take to the dealer, where does it specifically state in the SIB that the dealer must update the DCT software?

Well, it doesn't say in writing that they must. It is simply their internal guidelines that provide an observation and the suggested course of action. I think it is safe to assume the suggested course of action is more or less required. I also think if they refuse the suggested course of action in their own documents you should ask for the refusal in writing. I will. They could get in an ENORMOUS amount of legal shit if they refused to follow their own written protocol and you got in an accident because of the lag. Again, IMO, the big problem is the earlier SI B that said DO NOT update software for complaints of the lag.

[BMWM.D.]

Got a update for everyone:

The Service bulletin has been updated and now contains the updated info concerning the software fix. Now there should really be no issues with having an update done.

[Race_Doc11]

Do you have a number we can relate to? you know how it is at some dealers

Originally Posted by BMWM.D.

Got a update for everyone:

The Service bulletin has been updated and now contains the updated info concerning the software fix. Now there should really be no issues with having an update done.