Advice for mild track/mostly street pads

yomny · 03-11-2012, 12:22 PM

I've been searching around and reading tons of info on breaks, but between the HOT(high operating temp) pads, good cold bite or hot bite, proper bed in or burnishing procedures this could all get overwhelming. I track the car maybe once or twice a month, not every month maybe every other month. I recently did my first HPDE event and pushed my brakes pretty hard, they smelled and some times i felt a judder from the steering wheel under braking. My stock pads also got some fade, pedal feel was constant but no bite. I think i may have gotten the stock pads hot even to burn them. The outer slopy edge of the stock pads look burnt and i got a nice black line on the outer circumference of my front rotors, see pic below. I want something just above OEM performance but that doesnt squeal like hell on the cold street drives, low brake dust if possible and that resist fade on the few track events i do. Thanks for your help.

PS- If i don't reach my brake pad sensor i could just leave the stock ones on when replacing my OEM pads(which are not worn at all yet). For future reference whats a safe or recommend minimum rotor thickness and pad thickness before needing replacement, front and rear. Thanks a mil!

yomny · 03-11-2012, 05:47 PM

Was thinking of running a front set of Endless MX72 but wanted something a bit less expensive for the rear since a full set could run for $700. I was thinking Hawk HPS for the rear, or maybe a full set of Prjoect Mu hc+, if i could find them here in the US. Any advice would be highly appreciated.

sleepless · 03-11-2012, 06:02 PM

My advice is to use track pads for the track and street pads for the street.

Slapshot9 · 03-11-2012, 06:06 PM

Hawk HP Plus are the only dual purpose pads I have found, and they do both very well. They are noisy, very noisy.

yomny · 03-11-2012, 06:12 PM

Damn, didn't want noisy lol. I was on looking into maybe the Pagids rs19 but they are equally as expensive. Thanks for your feedback though!

Slapshot9 · 03-11-2012, 06:22 PM

$125.00 for the fronts from Turner, two solid hours of hard track time an a month or so of street use and they seem barely worn.

yomny · 03-11-2012, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slapshot9

$125.00 for the fronts from Turner, two solid hours of hard track time an a month or so of street use and they seem barely worn.

Im assuming you're talking about the Hawk hp plus?

MaxL · 03-11-2012, 07:11 PM

I used PFC Z-rated for street and track, and they are as good as it gets for street - like stock but with less dust and less initial bite (more linear). But not as good at the track, get slippery at higher temps. Still much better than stock, though, and when they overheat, there is no drama - plenty of warning, and they don't fall apart. They are cheap and last long, so may be a good alternative for a more expensive multipurpose pads like Endless or Pmu.

yomny · 03-11-2012, 07:59 PM

Quite honestly I think I'll be switching from track to street, don't really want to half ass things. I'll just get two sets and switch them. Thanks all for the advice.

Richard@M-World · 03-11-2012, 08:45 PM

For dual purpose pads, I typically recommend my customers StopTech Street Performance. They can withstand more track duty compared to stock, and they are generally quiet on the streets.

The next level up would be Project Mu HC+. It offers a super wide operating temperature range and is consistant up to 1,400 degrees. Probably one of the best dual purpose pads on the market. They do make some noise on the street.

The next level up... BBK.

Let me know how I may be of help.

yomny · 03-11-2012, 08:58 PM

I didnt' think i could get a set of HC+ over here so i had opted for a street/track set up. What do you recommend. I don't really have many tools or a comfortable place where i could swap the pads easily so my best bet really would be a good hybrid like these Project Mu's but i see you dont have it for the stock m3 brakes. The only setup you have both front/rear for on your site is for the stop tech street. Another question richard, how exactly, after talking about ideal pad operating temps and max heat capacity can i measure the temp on my rotors as well as the temp on my break fluid, to know if the fluid has been boiled or not? Thanks for your expertise!

Richard@M-World · 03-11-2012, 10:48 PM

I would recommend going with Street Performance pads first, and then upgrade as needed.

I will verify HC+ availability for E9X M3.

The ideal way to measure would be using a contact pyrometer, but they are expensive. Using an infrared pyrometer should also work.

STALKER · 03-12-2012, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yomny

Damn, didn't want noisy lol. I was on looking into maybe the Pagids rs19 but they are equally as expensive. Thanks for your feedback though!

Pagid pads are expensive, but they are excellent pads and last a long time.

Ferrodo DS2500 is a great dual purpose pad.

Sleeper519 · 03-12-2012, 11:43 AM

+1 on the StopTech Street Performance for dual duty.

+2 on the Pagids for dedicated track.

yomny · 03-12-2012, 01:57 PM

Sounds greats, i think for the street i could stick with OEM as i'm already accustomed to the feel and reaction, plus they are covered by BMW. I'll get a set for track that could last me a good year or so, considering i only track HPDE once or twice a month, every other month. Whats your take on that? Thanks for all your advice! I would get the stop tech for street but i really dont have canyons or twisty roads here in miami to benefit from them and give away the free replacement from BMW OEMs.

So Pagids for track, Turner Motorsports is recommending the RS-7 rear with RS-19 front? What do you think?

STALKER · 03-12-2012, 02:20 PM

I would get RS19s front and back.

yomny · 03-12-2012, 02:28 PM

Where can i get the set, Turner seems to only have them for the front. Thanks

Sleeper519 · 03-12-2012, 02:42 PM

Try www.raceshopper.com. Edwin has good prices.

yomny · 03-12-2012, 02:48 PM

Thanks guys, now the million dollar question, how in the world do i know what brake temperatures im dealing with. All the pads have max heat capacity, and ideal operating temps, the brake fluid as well but how do i know what im dealing with, what do i need for my specific situation, based on my rotors, style of driving, car weight and all these factors? Thanks for all your advice, if it weren't for this community it'll take a lot of hard trial and error/experience learning, as well as very costly experiences.

arter · 03-12-2012, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yomny

So Pagids for track, Turner Motorsports is recommending the RS-7 rear with RS-19 front? What do you think?

Yep, the RS-7's are okay for the back ( you don't push them as hard as the fronts ( plus they are much cheaper than the RS-19's)).
Turner used to sell the RS-19's for the back, but they don't anymore......
But use the RS-19's in front. great pads for the track

Z K · 03-12-2012, 05:25 PM

Yommy, did you PM me regarding the HC+ pads? You can get them from Project Mu for the M3. It just needs to be ordered from Japan since they will be custom made.

The best price I got for the HC+ is $250 for fronts which is the same price as their Japanese OEM Brembo applications. IMHO pretty reasonable. I loved them on my Evo. With 400hp, 4 piston Brembos and less weight, they probably don't work the brakes as hard as the heavy M3 though.

yomny · 03-12-2012, 06:48 PM

ZK so the hc+ are good for street and track? I just wanted to stick to oem for street and take advantage of the warranty replacing them, the use a set for track. I may not need a full race pad for track since I really don't track the car much at all. What do you think, maybe something just under full race track pads for the track to take it easy on the rotors? Really appreciate all your help, it's tough getting along just reading without some personal feedback.

03-11-2012, 12:22 PM	#1
yomny Private First Class 16 Rep 197 Posts Drives: '13 335is 6spd Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0)	Advice for mild track/mostly street pads I've been searching around and reading tons of info on breaks, but between the HOT(high operating temp) pads, good cold bite or hot bite, proper bed in or burnishing procedures this could all get overwhelming. I track the car maybe once or twice a month, not every month maybe every other month. I recently did my first HPDE event and pushed my brakes pretty hard, they smelled and some times i felt a judder from the steering wheel under braking. My stock pads also got some fade, pedal feel was constant but no bite. I think i may have gotten the stock pads hot even to burn them. The outer slopy edge of the stock pads look burnt and i got a nice black line on the outer circumference of my front rotors, see pic below. I want something just above OEM performance but that doesnt squeal like hell on the cold street drives, low brake dust if possible and that resist fade on the few track events i do. Thanks for your help. PS- If i don't reach my brake pad sensor i could just leave the stock ones on when replacing my OEM pads(which are not worn at all yet). For future reference whats a safe or recommend minimum rotor thickness and pad thickness before needing replacement, front and rear. Thanks a mil! Last edited by yomny; 03-11-2012 at 12:31 PM..
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03-11-2012, 05:47 PM	#2
yomny Private First Class 16 Rep 197 Posts Drives: '13 335is 6spd Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0)	Was thinking of running a front set of Endless MX72 but wanted something a bit less expensive for the rear since a full set could run for $700. I was thinking Hawk HPS for the rear, or maybe a full set of Prjoect Mu hc+, if i could find them here in the US. Any advice would be highly appreciated. Last edited by yomny; 03-11-2012 at 05:53 PM..
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03-11-2012, 06:02 PM	#3
sleepless Private First Class 10 Rep 118 Posts Drives: 11 E90 M3 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Redmond, WA iTrader: (0)	My advice is to use track pads for the track and street pads for the street.
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03-11-2012, 06:06 PM	#4
Slapshot9 First Lieutenant 22 Rep 351 Posts Drives: '08 E90 M3 JzB 6MT Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: SoFla iTrader: (0)	Hawk HP Plus are the only dual purpose pads I have found, and they do both very well. They are noisy, very noisy.
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03-11-2012, 06:12 PM	#5
yomny Private First Class 16 Rep 197 Posts Drives: '13 335is 6spd Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0)	Damn, didn't want noisy lol. I was on looking into maybe the Pagids rs19 but they are equally as expensive. Thanks for your feedback though!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-11-2012, 06:22 PM	#6
Slapshot9 First Lieutenant 22 Rep 351 Posts Drives: '08 E90 M3 JzB 6MT Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: SoFla iTrader: (0)	$125.00 for the fronts from Turner, two solid hours of hard track time an a month or so of street use and they seem barely worn.
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03-11-2012, 07:11 PM	#8
MaxL Captain 69 Rep 957 Posts Drives: E90 M3, Cayenne T, 991 GT3 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (0)	I used PFC Z-rated for street and track, and they are as good as it gets for street - like stock but with less dust and less initial bite (more linear). But not as good at the track, get slippery at higher temps. Still much better than stock, though, and when they overheat, there is no drama - plenty of warning, and they don't fall apart. They are cheap and last long, so may be a good alternative for a more expensive multipurpose pads like Endless or Pmu.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-11-2012, 07:59 PM	#9
yomny Private First Class 16 Rep 197 Posts Drives: '13 335is 6spd Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0)	Quite honestly I think I'll be switching from track to street, don't really want to half ass things. I'll just get two sets and switch them. Thanks all for the advice.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-11-2012, 08:45 PM	#10
Richard@M-World 78 Rep 684 Posts Drives: NASA TTA #92 M3 Join Date: May 2011 Location: TX/IL iTrader: (0)	For dual purpose pads, I typically recommend my customers StopTech Street Performance. They can withstand more track duty compared to stock, and they are generally quiet on the streets. The next level up would be Project Mu HC+. It offers a super wide operating temperature range and is consistant up to 1,400 degrees. Probably one of the best dual purpose pads on the market. They do make some noise on the street. The next level up... BBK. Let me know how I may be of help. __________________ Authorized AiM Dealer - Solo/Solo DL \| SmartyCam HD \| www.m-world.us
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03-11-2012, 08:58 PM	#11
yomny Private First Class 16 Rep 197 Posts Drives: '13 335is 6spd Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0)	I didnt' think i could get a set of HC+ over here so i had opted for a street/track set up. What do you recommend. I don't really have many tools or a comfortable place where i could swap the pads easily so my best bet really would be a good hybrid like these Project Mu's but i see you dont have it for the stock m3 brakes. The only setup you have both front/rear for on your site is for the stop tech street. Another question richard, how exactly, after talking about ideal pad operating temps and max heat capacity can i measure the temp on my rotors as well as the temp on my break fluid, to know if the fluid has been boiled or not? Thanks for your expertise!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-11-2012, 10:48 PM	#12
Richard@M-World 78 Rep 684 Posts Drives: NASA TTA #92 M3 Join Date: May 2011 Location: TX/IL iTrader: (0)	I would recommend going with Street Performance pads first, and then upgrade as needed. I will verify HC+ availability for E9X M3. The ideal way to measure would be using a contact pyrometer, but they are expensive. Using an infrared pyrometer should also work. __________________ Authorized AiM Dealer - Solo/Solo DL \| SmartyCam HD \| www.m-world.us
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-12-2012, 11:43 AM	#14
Sleeper519 Captain 68 Rep 869 Posts Drives: 08 E92 M3 DCT Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (0)	+1 on the StopTech Street Performance for dual duty. +2 on the Pagids for dedicated track. __________________ 2008 M3 Coupe / DCT // StopTech BBK 380/355 / Pagid RS29 / Motul / Apex Arc-8 / BFG R1S / Ground Control / MS filter / Performance spoiler / BPM tune // Road Atlanta 1:39.70 / VIR Full 2:10.87 / Barber 1:42.20
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03-12-2012, 01:57 PM	#15
yomny Private First Class 16 Rep 197 Posts Drives: '13 335is 6spd Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0)	Sounds greats, i think for the street i could stick with OEM as i'm already accustomed to the feel and reaction, plus they are covered by BMW. I'll get a set for track that could last me a good year or so, considering i only track HPDE once or twice a month, every other month. Whats your take on that? Thanks for all your advice! I would get the stop tech for street but i really dont have canyons or twisty roads here in miami to benefit from them and give away the free replacement from BMW OEMs. So Pagids for track, Turner Motorsports is recommending the RS-7 rear with RS-19 front? What do you think?
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03-12-2012, 02:20 PM	#16
STALKER Brigadier General 169 Rep 3,831 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3, Golf R Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Toronto, ON iTrader: (5)	I would get RS19s front and back. __________________
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03-12-2012, 02:28 PM	#17
yomny Private First Class 16 Rep 197 Posts Drives: '13 335is 6spd Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0)	Where can i get the set, Turner seems to only have them for the front. Thanks
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03-12-2012, 02:42 PM	#18
Sleeper519 Captain 68 Rep 869 Posts Drives: 08 E92 M3 DCT Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (0)	Try www.raceshopper.com. Edwin has good prices. __________________ 2008 M3 Coupe / DCT // StopTech BBK 380/355 / Pagid RS29 / Motul / Apex Arc-8 / BFG R1S / Ground Control / MS filter / Performance spoiler / BPM tune // Road Atlanta 1:39.70 / VIR Full 2:10.87 / Barber 1:42.20
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03-12-2012, 02:48 PM	#19
yomny Private First Class 16 Rep 197 Posts Drives: '13 335is 6spd Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0)	Thanks guys, now the million dollar question, how in the world do i know what brake temperatures im dealing with. All the pads have max heat capacity, and ideal operating temps, the brake fluid as well but how do i know what im dealing with, what do i need for my specific situation, based on my rotors, style of driving, car weight and all these factors? Thanks for all your advice, if it weren't for this community it'll take a lot of hard trial and error/experience learning, as well as very costly experiences.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-12-2012, 05:25 PM	#21
Z K Major General 1889 Rep 5,506 Posts Drives: E90 M3, G20 M340i Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (3)	Yommy, did you PM me regarding the HC+ pads? You can get them from Project Mu for the M3. It just needs to be ordered from Japan since they will be custom made. The best price I got for the HC+ is $250 for fronts which is the same price as their Japanese OEM Brembo applications. IMHO pretty reasonable. I loved them on my Evo. With 400hp, 4 piston Brembos and less weight, they probably don't work the brakes as hard as the heavy M3 though.
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03-12-2012, 06:48 PM	#22
yomny Private First Class 16 Rep 197 Posts Drives: '13 335is 6spd Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0)	ZK so the hc+ are good for street and track? I just wanted to stick to oem for street and take advantage of the warranty replacing them, the use a set for track. I may not need a full race pad for track since I really don't track the car much at all. What do you think, maybe something just under full race track pads for the track to take it easy on the rotors? Really appreciate all your help, it's tough getting along just reading without some personal feedback.
	Appreciate 0 Quote