Maintenance: Asia vs. German vs American Car

[donovan]

So...

We all love our vehicles, what ever it may be. I think if one takes care of their vehicles it can last for a very long time. So primarily I wanted to research and look at what vehicles really last the longest in difference areas of interest.

All cars are capable of lasting a long time if properly taken care of. I believe in these:
Honda/Toy/Niss/Subaru
Chevy/Ford
BMW/VW

However, it seems as if when something breaks of high cost its always the German car that cost the most to fix it, but we continue to buy the German car. I know a friend just bought a brand new honda for the nice gas mileage and it will probably last a long time with small issues and it cost 30% less in overall price!

So, why do we continue to buy these expensive German vehicles? I think perhaps because of their high resale value might be the highest thing and their engine performance. Then we complain about gas mileage lol...

So what do you all think has the best maintenance and worse maintenance over all..

Engine, Cosmetically, etc...

[carve]

Japanese cars tend to be the cheapest to own, European by far the most expensive.

Your buy the European car for the way it drives- not for the value.

[donovan]

^Most truth I have heard in a while...I have to agree... I have tracked a few vehicles and the BMW to me feels the best.

[Cdnrockies]

No disrespect intended, but how can you possible suggest that BMW/VW are cars that you'd consider "lasting a long time"?

Both cars have been statistically proven to be unreliable over the long haul. Add in to that the higher costs for repairs/maintenance and they're both scary propositions. In warranty, sure....high mileage, no thank you.

I'm also curious about this "high resale value" that you're referring to? Luxury cars dump more in terms of depreciation than more affordable cars. Ever looked what a 3 year old S class is worth vs. new? Pathetic at best.

Trade offs abound from brand to brand. There isn't a vehicle that exists that can be everything to everyone. Reliability/maintenance is a criteria that depends on the person and what they're looking for.

My F has been essentially bulletproof for the just over 3 years I've had it. Low cost maintenance and great in terms of reliability. The X5 has included maintenance but has been less than reliable. Thankfully, everything has been under warranty. The ML has also had several warranty issues, but the maintenance is ridiculous. I've spent more on two services on the ML than the F has cost me in over 3 years of ownership...lol.

Different strokes for different folks.

[CollinsE90]

Lol at your premise being a 3 year old car

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

Lol at your premise being a 3 year old car

Was this directed at my post?

Care to offer something actually constructive for a change?

[yakev724]

^ I can't speak for your ISF (wtf fake exhaust tips), but toyota-era lexus produced some of the most reliable cars...ever. The toyota drivetrains will last forever in the first place, but then they took care to build them with higher quality components than their respective toyotas, so some models, esp. the rx300 and sc300, are damn near indestructible.

BMWs are built by a company that knows what it's doing. With proper maintenance, I'd expect a BMW to last substantially longer than an american counterpart. This may not be apparent for 2 reasons. First you have the racers and kids that buy them and beat the hell out of them without performing the necessary preventative maintenance/modifications to account for the stress. Second, there's a tendency to half-ass important repairs (i.e. electrical system) after a collision as the body shop/resaler just wants the car to look good to make a quick buck. Both of these put unreliable BMWs on the road and may give the brand a worse reputation in terms of maintenance.

[CollinsE90]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

Was this directed at my post?

Care to offer something actually constructive for a change?

All cars are good for 3 years, just thought that your justification for owning it was funny.

[driersheets]

oh canada

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

All cars are good for 3 years, just thought that your justification for owning it was funny.

Not sure what cars you're referring to, but both our Benz and BMW have been far shy of "good" for even the 2 and 3 years that we've had them.

Not one of my father's BMW's...4 over the last 15 years...has ever been what you could ever consider reliable...and that includes in the first 3 years.

He keeps buying them anyways, just as my wife and I are still considering another Benz even though it costs more to maintain and has mediocre reliability.

Stats don't lie. The Germans are less reliable, end of story. But like the OP, donovan, mentioned...some of us keep coming back for more. As long as you're going in with eyes wide open...buy whatever makes you happy.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by yakev724

^ I can't speak for your ISF (wtf fake exhaust tips), but toyota-era lexus produced some of the most reliable cars...ever. The toyota drivetrains will last forever in the first place, but then they took care to build them with higher quality components than their respective toyotas, so some models, esp. the rx300 and sc300, are damn near indestructible.

BMWs are built by a company that knows what it's doing. With proper maintenance, I'd expect a BMW to last substantially longer than an american counterpart. This may not be apparent for 2 reasons. First you have the racers and kids that buy them and beat the hell out of them without performing the necessary preventative maintenance/modifications to account for the stress. Second, there's a tendency to half-ass important repairs (i.e. electrical system) after a collision as the body shop/resaler just wants the car to look good to make a quick buck. Both of these put unreliable BMWs on the road and may give the brand a worse reputation in terms of maintenance.

I guess it also comes down to what the repairs/maintenance are going to cost you and what you value as "worth it" at the end of the day.

We had a very slight oil leak on our E53 X5. Dealer quoted $4K for the fix. Considering that I only paid $10K for it, it was gone within the month.

No different than the crack in the 12" A/C pipe on my father's old 325is. $1000 just for the piece of aluminum.

Sorry, but thost exorbitant costs are ridiculous and something you won't find on either an American or Japanese vehicle.

All in cost after warranty will increase the disparity that existed on initial purchase price, imo.










P.S. Please explain to the LP 640 owners their "fake" exhaust tips as well. Thanks.

[CollinsE90]

Learn to do your own maintenance and it's cheaper than Honda's, learn the brands that BMW outsources to and puts their stamp on, and buy straight from them. List goes on and on, if you need a beater that's reliable buy a Honda. If you want a car for the weekend and mechanically inclined, German isn't as scary as what most people think. They just are too ignorant to find an indy shop and let the dealer butt rape them.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

Learn to do your own maintenance and it's cheaper than Honda's, learn the brands that BMW outsources to and puts their stamp on, and buy straight from them. List goes on and on, if you need a beater that's reliable buy a Honda. If you want a car for the weekend and mechanically inclined, German isn't as scary as what most people think. They just are too ignorant to find an indy shop and let the dealer butt rape them.

In theory, fair points.

But the exact same thing can be said for the Hondas. The bottom line is that due to sheer volume, it will always be cheaper to work on the higher volume, less expensive vehicles due to the availability.

The indy shops have also made a good living for themselves by pricing themselves lower than the dealerships, but are still more expensive than "basic" mechanics that work on most domestic and jdm vehicles.

The vast majority of luxury car owners don't turn their own wrenches. Never have, never will. I worked in a shop in high school and know most of the basics, but don't have the time, tools, or inclination to service my own vehicles, hence why I'm not going to bitch and moan about the costs.

[yakev724]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

I guess it also comes down to what the repairs/maintenance are going to cost you and what you value as "worth it" at the end of the day.

All in cost after warranty will increase the disparity that existed on initial purchase price, imo.

True.

But think that the 10k X5 may have had a corner cut (even by a BMW tech at a dealership) which led to your leak. Just from my personal experience and friends/family (whose cars I maintain) I doubt that if you'd have purchased the car new you'd have that leak.

Of course there are the occasional issues in design/build (as with any maker) but BMW typically doesn't ignore the most widespread of these.

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

Learn to do your own maintenance and it's cheaper than Honda's, learn the brands that BMW outsources to and puts their stamp on, and buy straight from them. List goes on and on, if you need a beater that's reliable buy a Honda. If you want a car for the weekend and mechanically inclined, German isn't as scary as what most people think. They just are too ignorant to find an indy shop and let the dealer butt rape them.

You're replacing 3x the parts on a BMW as on a Honda, cost of parts aside (which are higher regardless of how you buy them). If you treat a BMW like a Honda (and replace parts as they break), it won't last nearly as long.

Absolutely right on the ignorance though. I've seen people donate hundreds of dollars at my dealer's parts counter. I'm sure tens of thousands in the SA offices. BMW still profits.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by yakev724

But think that the 10k X5 may have had a corner cut (even by a BMW tech at a dealership) which led to your leak. Just from my personal experience and friends/family (whose cars I maintain) I doubt that if you'd have purchased the car new you'd have that leak.

I understand what you're saying but that isn't the case here. It was purchased new and every service that it had seen was performed at a BMW dealership. I bought it as a favour to my father as the dealership was only offering him $8K for it and I knew he wouldn't be patient enough to find more cash privately....lol.

[yakev724]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

I understand what you're saying but that isn't the case here. It was purchased new and every service that it had seen was performed at a BMW dealership. I bought it as a favour to my father as the dealership was only offering him $8K for it and I knew he wouldn't be patient enough to find more cash privately....lol.

A forum member here had his parents' X5 in for a brake service, after which the caliper wasn't properly tightened. It came loose while driving and locked up a wheel. It's a mistake that could have killed several people.

Having service performed at a BMW dealership is unfortunately not a way of factoring out the question of whether the procedure is performed properly. The only way to guarantee it is to do everything yourself, which as you mentioned, is near impossible (and impractical for most owners of more expensive cars). If BMW techs performed maintenance in the same manner as enthusiast owners, I suspect BMW would be a good bit less profitable.

Imo the only way out is to lease or to know your car better than any tech you allow (pay) to work on it. Hopefully I can switch from latter to former...sometime

[donovan]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

No disrespect intended, but how can you possible suggest that BMW/VW are cars that you'd consider "lasting a long time"?

Both cars have been statistically proven to be unreliable over the long haul. Add in to that the higher costs for repairs/maintenance and they're both scary propositions. In warranty, sure....high mileage, no thank you.

I'm also curious about this "high resale value" that you're referring to? Luxury cars dump more in terms of depreciation than more affordable cars. Ever looked what a 3 year old S class is worth vs. new? Pathetic at best.

Trade offs abound from brand to brand. There isn't a vehicle that exists that can be everything to everyone. Reliability/maintenance is a criteria that depends on the person and what they're looking for.

My F has been essentially bulletproof for the just over 3 years I've had it. Low cost maintenance and great in terms of reliability. The X5 has included maintenance but has been less than reliable. Thankfully, everything has been under warranty. The ML has also had several warranty issues, but the maintenance is ridiculous. I've spent more on two services on the ML than the F has cost me in over 3 years of ownership...lol.

Different strokes for different folks.

Thats what I want to hear, what the folks really think. A reason behind buying certain vehicles based on maintenance and reliability.

[donovan]

The thing is, I do my own maintenance but... as far as the maintenance book, I cant just stamp that shit and call it good. I need a record of it. Therefore some people just look at the maintenance book and not from what I told them I did....

^This dont have shit to do with shit lol.