Top Gear Video: E92 M3 ZCP vs Audi RS5

[Niro]

Originally Posted by HREM3

Gotta agree with footie here. They've all made fantastic super cars.
BMW has to do the same.

The ONLY thing the RS5 (or even the RS4) has on the M3 is exclusivity.
If I spend a saturday or sunday doing errands I'll see 3-5 e9x M3s. Kinda annoying...

... and this is my big problem with BMWs. In Europe, but especially in the U.K., BMWs are exceedingly common. Some BMW models massively outsold Fords over the last few years. Exclusivity just doesn't exist - but of course, that is not to say that BMWs are not excellent cars!

[Niro]

Originally Posted by shiggy

i dont think he was attempting to drift in the RS5...it just suffers from understeer.
the M3 drifted because he was going into the corners at a high rate of speed...hense the back end moving out.....but the beauty of the m3...its easy to control the drift and remain on the track. The RS5 plowed into the grass when pushed hard around the corner....

Shiggy, perhaps I didn't make my point clear. In the real world, what I want is a car that is likely to remain planted to the tarmac in the rain. Quattros provide greater security from this PoV than do BMWs. There have been so many occasions, admittedly with me pushing it, where various BMWs of mine have been 'tail happy' - such would be okay on a race-track, but not on a public road. However, that is not to say that Audis do not understeer.

[Niro]

Originally Posted by footie

Driving dynamics is a very personal thing, for those that have owned the RS4 and moved up to the new RS5 they all say the dynamics are superior, now since the M3 hasn't changed from the time it was compared to the RS4 we have to concluded that what Audi are offering isn't what those reviewers were looking for. That doesn't mean the RS5 is a bad car, only that it can't thrill in the same way as an M3 can, but then again do we really need another M3 on the Market when the one we already have is exception?

The RS5 is a different car with clearly different goals, as you pointed out it's more of a GT yet it matches the M3's ability. Another thing worth mentioning is that because it's awd it's performance is easier to access, this might be a negative for those seeking something to push their own abilities but the reality is few of us could ever get close to matching the Stig's time in the M3 but might get a lot close in the RS5 just because it's limits are more approachable.

Different cars with different driving styles and demands on the driver but each are brilliant in their own right.

+1

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by Niro

Shiggy, perhaps I didn't make my point clear. In the real world, what I want is a car that is likely to remain planted to the tarmac in the rain. Quattros provide greater security from this PoV than do BMWs. There have been so many occasions, admittedly with me pushing it, where various BMWs of mine have been 'tail happy' - such would be okay on a race-track, but not on a public road. However, that is not to say that Audis do not understeer.

point understood...thx
when driving AWD, one has to be careful of having a false sense of security or you will be riding the curb....
cheers,

[footie]

Originally Posted by Niro

I don't think it's fair the way car programs make cornering comparisons based on the ability to drift.

The reason of this is simple, they know most simple minded plebs believe this is the most important thing when buying a car they reckon they'll be power sliding round every corner on their way to college/work. Of course in reality this never really happens but this mags do know their target audience.

Originally Posted by Niro

As much as I'd love to, I just don't drift my cars around corners in the 'real world'! - I'd rather be in a Quattro in the rain/ in suboptimal traction conditions, than in a RWD car!

The reality is that when all of these fine cars, be that Audi, BMW or Mercedes are driven on the public roads are even relatively brisk speeds there isn't that great of difference in feel. Different matter on the track but not on public roads that's for sure.

Why do everyone not accept that they both are blindingly good but totally different in their approach.


P.S.
This is for all the guys that genuinely believed that the M3 is quicker than an RS5 in the wet. Audi developed the RS5 to surpass everything that the RS4 was capable of and this it has done, so why wouldn't this be true in the wet?

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/sp...ling_test.html

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by footie

The reason of this is simple, they know most simple minded plebs believe this is the most important thing when buying a car they reckon they'll be power sliding round every corner on their way to college/work. Of course in reality this never really happens but this mags do know their target audience.



The reality is that when all of these fine cars, be that Audi, BMW or Mercedes are driven on the public roads are even relatively brisk speeds there isn't that great of difference in feel. Different matter on the track but not on public roads that's for sure.

Why do everyone not accept that they both are blindingly good but totally different in their approach.


P.S.
This is for all the guys that genuinely believed that the M3 is quicker than an RS5 in the wet. Audi developed the RS5 to surpass everything that the RS4 was capable of and this it has done, so why wouldn't this be true in the wet?

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/sp...ling_test.html

there you go again with the personal attacks on BMW owners...SIGH!

tsk tsk tsk!
I think your a very intelligent person...a little bias...but intelligent....make your point without insulting BMW owners...especially on a BMW forum...very distasteful.
let's get this thread back on topic shall we....
WOOOOHOOOO...yet another WIN FOR THE M3...woot woot!
heehee....

[esquire]

Originally Posted by footie

The reality is that when all of these fine cars, be that Audi, BMW or Mercedes are driven on the public roads are even relatively brisk speeds there isn't that great of difference in feel. Different matter on the track but not on public roads that's for sure.

This is just inaccurate. On public road or on a track, BMW and Mercedes and Audi each have vastly different drive feels. My friend, a former BMW guy, owns a c63 AMG and we regularly swap cars for fun. in driving his car, the c63 feels worlds more disconnected from the road than the M3 - like your driving on a cloud. I can also say the same of an e63 which I"ve also driven on numerous occasions. He agrees with my assessment about the car and regrets his decision to go with mercedes. Even if you like the mercedes driving feel, there is little doubt about the fact that the two cars feel entirely different on the road. Regarding Audi, I have similar sentiment, though obviously I haven't driven the RS5 and can't speak from personal experience. But of all the other Audi's I've driven, I can say that its driving feel and experience is distinctly different from that of BMW.

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by footie

The reason of this is simple, they know most simple minded plebs believe this is the most important thing when buying a car they reckon they'll be power sliding round every corner on their way to college/work. Of course in reality this never really happens but this mags do know their target audience.



The reality is that when all of these fine cars, be that Audi, BMW or Mercedes are driven on the public roads are even relatively brisk speeds there isn't that great of difference in feel. Different matter on the track but not on public roads that's for sure.

Why do everyone not accept that they both are blindingly good but totally different in their approach.


P.S.
This is for all the guys that genuinely believed that the M3 is quicker than an RS5 in the wet. Audi developed the RS5 to surpass everything that the RS4 was capable of and this it has done, so why wouldn't this be true in the wet?

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/sp...ling_test.html

but you had said...Audi developed this car to take down the M3?...hmmmm

[Digital.James]

Originally Posted by footie

Well you see there is your problem and mistake, I didn't refer to the number of wins in a comparison test between the M3 and RS5, no I was refering to lap times and in this case the number of wins between them is roughly even.

At no point EVER have I claimed the RS5 being a more entertaining drive, it's rwd that makes the M3 the superior driver's car. AWD claim to fame is it's easier to drive quickly (read 90% of us), it's more stable and has superior traction.

Each have their appeal and each have their fans.

in another thread, you said that awd drive cars with quicker period... seems like this isnt the case is it?

[footie]

Originally Posted by shiggy

but you had said...Audi developed this car to take down the M3?...hmmmm

Well shiggy, I don't believe you are as (insert word ) as you are letting on here, of course each manufacture develops their replacement to surpass the model it's just replace, each M3 has done this very thing. Now that this is cleared up, back to the link of Sportauto's wet lap times, the M3 was how much slower???

Originally Posted by Digital.James

in another thread, you said that awd drive cars with quicker period... seems like this isnt the case is it?

When all else is equal and considering the RS5 is 300+lbs heavier I think it's doing rather well.

Originally Posted by esquire

This is just inaccurate. On public road or on a track, BMW and Mercedes and Audi each have vastly different drive feels. My friend, a former BMW guy, owns a c63 AMG and we regularly swap cars for fun. in driving his car, the c63 feels worlds more disconnected from the road than the M3 - like your driving on a cloud. I can also say the same of an e63 which I"ve also driven on numerous occasions. He agrees with my assessment about the car and regrets his decision to go with mercedes. Even if you like the mercedes driving feel, there is little doubt about the fact that the two cars feel entirely different on the road. Regarding Audi, I have similar sentiment, though obviously I haven't driven the RS5 and can't speak from personal experience. But of all the other Audi's I've driven, I can say that its driving feel and experience is distinctly different from that of BMW.

With the exception of Porsche sportscars, the other German brands (Audi, BMW and Mercedes) feel rather similar. Yes there are subtle differences and yes out of these three it's BMW with the best steering feel of it's still small differences all the same.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by footie

With the exception of Porsche sportscars, the other German brands (Audi, BMW and Mercedes) feel rather similar. Yes there are subtle differences and yes out of these three it's BMW with the best steering feel of it's still small differences all the same.

subtle is not the word. you're underemphaszing the realisitic and substantial differences between these cars for the sake of what? feeling like you're right?

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by footie

Well shiggy, I don't believe you are as (insert word ) as you are letting on here, of course each manufacture develops their replacement to surpass the model it's just replace, each M3 has done this very thing. Now that this is cleared up, back to the link of Sportauto's wet lap times, the M3 was how much slower???

you do realize that anyone can go on there and post their time...LOL

When all else is equal and considering the RS5 is 300+lbs heavier I think it's doing rather well.



With the exception of Porsche sportscars, the other German brands (Audi, BMW and Mercedes) feel rather similar. Yes there are subtle differences and yes out of these three it's BMW with the best steering feel of it's still small differences all the same.

I have yet to see any video clip that shows the RS5 beating the M3 around the track.....or any comparo that favors the Audi...this is done to death...RS5...RIP!!!

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by esquire

subtle is not the word. you're underemphaszing the realisitic and substantial differences between these cars for the sake of what? feeling like you're right?

duh!...LOL...he feels he is more qualified than the journalists of car and driver!...seriously!!!

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by esquire

subtle is not the word. you're underemphaszing the realisitic and substantial differences between these cars for the sake of what? feeling like you're right?

Footie is never wrong!!!

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by esquire

subtle is not the word. you're underemphaszing the realisitic and substantial differences between these cars for the sake of what? feeling like you're right?

by the way....love your M3...Dakar yellow looks amazing in direct sunlight!!!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by shiggy

duh!...LOL...he feels he is more qualified than the journalists of car and driver!...seriously!!!

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

Footie is never wrong!!!

haha. I agree with him, they are all excellent cars in their own right. But to say their drive feel is similar is something I just can't agree with... and I think objectively speaking, most others will disagree with also.

Originally Posted by shiggy

by the way....love your M3...Dakar yellow looks amazing in direct sunlight!!!

Thank you shiggy.

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by shiggy

ring ring ring:

"hi there...can I speak to audi Fanboi please"?

"why hello good man...this is audi fan boi...feeling really perky today...how can I help you"?

"ummmm...ya..ok....well....I just called to see if you had seen the Top gear episode with the M3 vs the RS5"

"oh yes I did....I just loved how pretty the interior looked in the RS5...you know it has such beautiful seats"!!!

"Ya...I guess so....but dont you think the ending was a bit of a surprised...the M3 beat it by a full second....and on a wet track"!

"dreadful it was....but at least the RS5 is exclusive"!!!

"sure...I guess so......but I think you might be confusing the lack of sales because its so damn expensive and cars that are cheaper are beating it in every comparo"

"you are beginning to ruffle my feathers mister....the RS5 has the latest in Quattro..cant beat AWD mate"

"well...it sure didnt perform that well on the wet track and it still suffers from massive understeer and it plows around corners like a '72 Buick"

"PISS ON YOU...YOU GO TO HELL AND DIE!!!....IT HAS QUATTRO AND REALLY REALLY PRETTY INTERIOR AND AND AND IT UMMM ....ITS EXCLUSIVE...AND AND ITS AWD....AND IT HAS REALLY COOL LOOKING CAMARO MAGS ON IT....AND HAS L.E.D. TWINKLY LIGHTS"

"easy little fella....im sorry....I didnt mean to get you so upset..i understand you are the Audi expert...so I just wanted to hear your opinions on the latest RS5 vs M3 comparo"

"I....I think......I think it was fixed...the comparo was supervised by a secret agency....and ummm....Top Gear was told to make the RS5 understeer like a Mac Truck and only go 3/4 throddle.....IT'S A CONSPIRICY...SHHHHHHH...i HAVE TO GO NOW...THEY MAY BE LISTENING"

there you have it folks...that was an excerpt from a phone call to an Audi insider......all M3 vs RS5 have been fixed!!!
The understeer, the numb steering feel.....the plowing and nose dive in cornering...the massive weight...the all new Quattro system failing to astonish the world.....ALL lies....a massive cover up!
I know all of you are shocked...but you must keep this on the down low or the government may be knocking at your door!!!
ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh.........

Shiggy.....Rocks!!

[blue dragon]

Here's my point. Put the average M3 driver into both cars, my bet is he would be faster around a track in the Audi. How many M3 drivers ever turn off DSC fully, and know how to control oversteer, which the M3 more readily does than the RS5.

This just brings back my badge whore point. At the limit, the M3 seems to be faster, but in day to day situations, in the rain, in the snow, in the dry, with regular drivers, which car is faster?

For the record, I've owned an e46 M3 with regular auto'xing and a few lapping days . I now own an E70 with 3rd row seating due to family constraints , so I am no audi fanboi.

[Possible Hero]

So I really dont get what your point is trying to prove. In the day to day conditons there is a 60mph limit and speed cameras everywhere. Off the line in snow most AWD cars will be faster...Duh.
On a dry track the M3 driver probably wouldn't be that much faster in either car. Why? If he steps on the throttle in the M3 the rear will break out. So he's likely going to be feeding the throttle in super smooth.
VS
In the Audi if the "M3" driver goes to quick he's just going to understeer off the corner. Both points are going to cost him (Or her ) time.
The only difference in the real world between these cars in the customer base who buy them. They both LOVE cars, but go after either car because of the way it fills the fast saloon category.
Im betting anyone of us would appreciate both cars in person. The M3 and RS5 are gorgeous, they just do it there own way!

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

Shiggy.....Rocks!!

LOL...thx man!

[Sedan_Clan]

blue_dragon,

The "badge whore" argument can't be used when discussing premium automobiles. An RS5 driver could be just as much of a badge whore as an ///M3 driver.

Originally Posted by esquire

subtle is not the word. you're underemphaszing the realisitic and substantial differences between these cars for the sake of what? feeling like you're right?

+3

[CKTuning2012]

awesome!!