The M3 truly requires a good driver to really make it shine!

ssabripo · 03-17-2009, 10:00 AM

I love the M3 dearly, as much as I love my measly 135i. I've had a few runs with some e92's, and driven a couple pretty hard...fascinating cars.

Yesterday, just by coincidence, a black e92 M3 and I played a little, and as been the case previously, I was able to keep up and start to pull on him.... But I know for a fact that with a good driver that knows this car's sweet spot, it would spank me if need be.

My original thoughts were that the M3 would truly shine on the turns, but seems to me that even in straight line, if a driver really knows the shift points and power curves of this car, it can really make it a beast.

I was looking at the modded ACSchnitzer 135i vs stock e92 times at the nurburging, and what really jumped out of me was not the times on the turns, but the STRAIGHT LINE times!!

Specially, the 1st sector (which is a straight line from a dig) where the M3 pulls a good second on the car, and then sector 5, (straigh line from a roll) where it pulls an astonishing 2 seconds!!

thats outstanding!!!

ssabripo · 03-17-2009, 02:59 PM

60 views and nobody has any comments on how the straight lines on sectors 1 and 5 did?

any technical explanations are appreciated

Robin_NL · 03-17-2009, 04:43 PM

I posted that track pic in the 'R8/M3 which is faster' thread, LOL didn't know you had it here already.

sayemthree · 03-17-2009, 08:37 PM

the M3 is fast. faster than a modded 135i.

Year's_End · 03-18-2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayemthree

the M3 is fast. faster than a modded 135i.

well, that depends on how modded said 135i is, but yeah, for the mostpart.

footie · 03-18-2009, 05:49 AM

I find it incredible that the AC Schnitzer 135i was quicker in all the the technic sections than the M3, yes there a slight weight difference but it's not really big enough to suggest that it's the real reason for the improvement. I'm of the belief that Schnitzer suspension setup is probably superior.

Is it known whether it's equipped with a LSD?

Robin_NL · 03-18-2009, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

I find it incredible that the AC Schnitzer 135i was quicker in all the the technic sections than the M3, yes there a slight weight difference but it's not really big enough to suggest that it's the real reason for the improvement. I'm of the belief that Schnitzer suspension setup is probably superior.

Is it known whether it's equipped with a LSD?

A friend of mine drives a ACS 135i and afaik it has the OEM 'electronical lsd' specialy invented for the 135i/123d coupe, it almost works as a real lsd but still isn't.

I'll ask him to be sure.

armyav8tor · 03-18-2009, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssabripo

Yesterday, just by coincidence, a black e92 M3 and I played a little, and as been the case previously, I was able to keep up and start to pull on him.... But I know for a fact that with a good driver that knows this car's sweet spot, it would spank me if need be.

Still trying to make your 1 series relevant? Bragging about your driving skills? Yeah, I would be the one that would spank you in your little 1, but I wouldn't give you the time of day. Not worth my time.

armyav8tor · 03-18-2009, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssabripo

Yesterday, just by coincidence, a black e92 M3 and I played a little, and as been the case previously, I was able to keep up and start to pull on him.... But I know for a fact that with a good driver that knows this car's sweet spot, it would spank me if need be.

This reminds me of a funny story last weekend. This Z4 was riding my ass from the Autobahn all the way to the Nurburgring like he's hot shit. At the Ring, I was going to drive right in and do a lap but they had changed the ticket system which required me to buy a new pass. Parked the car, went to the ticket booth bought my new pass, saw the Z4 enter the track. I leisurely walked back to the car, got in, got through the gate and giving the guy a 2 minute head start, I passed him before the halfway marker. It was too funny. I have other stories also, it involved a 997 GT3RS, and the other involved a AMG C63, the short version is I smoked them on the track. You are just stating the obvious that the driver > car.

footie · 03-18-2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

A friend of mine drives a ACS 135i and afaik it has the OEM 'electronical lsd' specialy invented for the 135i/123d coupe, it almost works as a real lsd but still isn't.

I'll ask him to be sure.

It all depends on how the electronic LSD behaves (if) that is the case. There is some very good versions out there that behave remarkably like a proper LSD so I wouldn't rule this out if it indeed has this form of slip.

ssabripo · 03-18-2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

I find it incredible that the AC Schnitzer 135i was quicker in all the the technic sections than the M3, yes there a slight weight difference but it's not really big enough to suggest that it's the real reason for the improvement. I'm of the belief that Schnitzer suspension setup is probably superior.

Is it known whether it's equipped with a LSD?

I've driven in a ACS 135i, and the suspension is obviously better than stock, but nowhere near a good Coilover setup. Powerwise, the tune itself is comparable to a "Dinan" flash, but wont come close to something like a JB3 or Procede V3. And there is no LSD on it.

I'm like you, i'm stomped on how the predicted times are "reversed" here...I surely predicted the M3 to gain some time around the turns, and expected the 135i to gain speed on the straights, but it's actually the other way around!!!

The only conclusion plausible to me is that the DCT + launch control on the M3, in addition to a driver really knowing the powerband sweetspot of the M, can really take it to some serious performance!!

footie · 03-18-2009, 07:29 AM

I take it the same person drove all the cars listed in this test, if so then differing driver ability is taken out of the equation or should I say that the driver must feel more confident in the 135i compared to the M3.

ssabripo · 03-18-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

I take it the same person drove all the cars listed in this test, if so then differing driver ability is taken out of the equation or should I say that the driver must feel more confident in the 135i compared to the M3.

i'm not sure...i dont speak german so I dont know, but supposedly this is at the same time, same track, etc.

Either way, this is even more impressive for the M3...

sayemthree · 03-18-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

well, that depends on how modded said 135i is, but yeah, for the mostpart.

for the times listed on this thread.

Robin_NL · 03-18-2009, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

It all depends on how the electronic LSD behaves (if) that is the case. There is some very good versions out there that behave remarkably like a proper LSD so I wouldn't rule this out if it indeed has this form of slip.

This ACS 135i in the test was equipped with the stock OEM 'electronic lsd' I 've been told by my ACS 135i friend. His ACS still has that electronic diff but plans on getting a real mechanical ACS lsd which should make the ACS 135 a tad faster on a track accellerating out of slower bends...

i've tried that e diff on a stock 135i and it's nice but not yet a real //M ls diff or Drexler ls diff(better than //M diff)

ssabripo · 03-18-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

This ACS 135i in the test was equipped with the stock OEM 'electronic lsd' I 've been told by my ACS 135i friend. His ACS still has that electronic diff but plans on getting a real mechanical ACS lsd which should make the ACS 135 a tad faster on a track accellerating out of slower bends...

i've tried that e diff on a stock 135i and it's nice but not yet a real //M ls diff or Drexler ls diff(better than //M diff)

agreed

sayemthree · 03-18-2009, 02:41 PM

real mech lim slip diff >> electronic diff.

ssabripo · 03-18-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayemthree

real mech lim slip diff >> electronic diff.

exactly, which would logically make you think it was in the turns where the times were made..... but that's not the case, it was actually in the straights where the times were made.

this is the confusing part.

footie · 03-18-2009, 03:49 PM

Without knowing all the facts (i.e. tyre choice on all cars) then us are guessing why the M3 was slower in the bits it should logically be quicker. RH is right in saying a mechanical diff is better but I don't think the difference is that great in road cars. I'm guessing the suspension is probably better suit to track use and less of a compromise as is the case with the M3.

mixja · 03-18-2009, 06:06 PM

The results are not surprising - the 135s will have far superior mid-range torque, hence have a natural advantage accelerating out of any slow corners. This is reflected in the sector times. I'll bet the M3 carries more spped through the corners, it just loses time coming out of them...another factor could be brakes - anybody know if the 135s had brake upgrades?

The M3 has far more horsepower and at a higher RPM, so it will always be faster on straights and high speed sweepers...

ssabripo · 03-18-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixja

The results are not surprising - the 135s will have far superior mid-range torque, hence have a natural advantage accelerating out of any slow corners. This is reflected in the sector times. I'll bet the M3 carries more spped through the corners, it just loses time coming out of them...another factor could be brakes - anybody know if the 135s had brake upgrades?

The M3 has far more horsepower and at a higher RPM, so it will always be faster on straights and high speed sweepers...

that makes sense.

03-17-2009, 10:00 AM	#1
ssabripo HALA MADRID! 939 Rep 2,879 Posts Drives: camels & donkeys Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Plantation, Fl iTrader: (7)	The M3 truly requires a good driver to really make it shine! I love the M3 dearly, as much as I love my measly 135i. I've had a few runs with some e92's, and driven a couple pretty hard...fascinating cars. Yesterday, just by coincidence, a black e92 M3 and I played a little, and as been the case previously, I was able to keep up and start to pull on him.... But I know for a fact that with a good driver that knows this car's sweet spot, it would spank me if need be. My original thoughts were that the M3 would truly shine on the turns, but seems to me that even in straight line, if a driver really knows the shift points and power curves of this car, it can really make it a beast. I was looking at the modded ACSchnitzer 135i vs stock e92 times at the nurburging, and what really jumped out of me was not the times on the turns, but the STRAIGHT LINE times!! Specially, the 1st sector (which is a straight line from a dig) where the M3 pulls a good second on the car, and then sector 5, (straigh line from a roll) where it pulls an astonishing 2 seconds!! thats outstanding!!! __________________ F87 M2 Competition, Sunset Orange, Exc, DCT. SOLD F80 M3 Mineral Grey/Sakir Orange, Exc, DCT... ED 6/2015 SOLDE90 M3, Interlagos Blue / M individual two-tone, ZCP, ZP2, ZCV, DCT, ED.
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03-17-2009, 02:59 PM	#2
ssabripo HALA MADRID! 939 Rep 2,879 Posts Drives: camels & donkeys Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Plantation, Fl iTrader: (7)	60 views and nobody has any comments on how the straight lines on sectors 1 and 5 did? any technical explanations are appreciated
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03-17-2009, 04:43 PM	#3
Robin_NL S0THPAW 8717 Rep 7,846 Posts Drives: HS M2 Competition Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Netherlands iTrader: (0)	I posted that track pic in the 'R8/M3 which is faster' thread, LOL didn't know you had it here already.
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03-17-2009, 08:37 PM	#4
sayemthree Major General 597 Rep 5,448 Posts Drives: ‘20 X3mC ‘20 Raptor ‘04 X3 6mt Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: usa so cal , AZ iTrader: (0)	the M3 is fast. faster than a modded 135i. __________________ Fore Sale Rare 6 speed manual X3 3.oi silver over grey. PM me
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03-18-2009, 05:49 AM	#6
footie Major General 1109 Rep 8,013 Posts Drives: i5M60 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: No where fast iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 BMW i5M60 [0.00] 2022 BMW i4M50 [0.00] 2020 BMW M5 Competi ... [0.00] 2008 E92 M3 [0.00]	I find it incredible that the AC Schnitzer 135i was quicker in all the the technic sections than the M3, yes there a slight weight difference but it's not really big enough to suggest that it's the real reason for the improvement. I'm of the belief that Schnitzer suspension setup is probably superior. Is it known whether it's equipped with a LSD?
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03-18-2009, 07:29 AM	#12
footie Major General 1109 Rep 8,013 Posts Drives: i5M60 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: No where fast iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 BMW i5M60 [0.00] 2022 BMW i4M50 [0.00] 2020 BMW M5 Competi ... [0.00] 2008 E92 M3 [0.00]	I take it the same person drove all the cars listed in this test, if so then differing driver ability is taken out of the equation or should I say that the driver must feel more confident in the 135i compared to the M3.
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03-18-2009, 02:41 PM	#17
sayemthree Major General 597 Rep 5,448 Posts Drives: ‘20 X3mC ‘20 Raptor ‘04 X3 6mt Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: usa so cal , AZ iTrader: (0)	real mech lim slip diff >> electronic diff. __________________ Fore Sale Rare 6 speed manual X3 3.oi silver over grey. PM me
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03-18-2009, 03:49 PM	#19
footie Major General 1109 Rep 8,013 Posts Drives: i5M60 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: No where fast iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 BMW i5M60 [0.00] 2022 BMW i4M50 [0.00] 2020 BMW M5 Competi ... [0.00] 2008 E92 M3 [0.00]	Without knowing all the facts (i.e. tyre choice on all cars) then us are guessing why the M3 was slower in the bits it should logically be quicker. RH is right in saying a mechanical diff is better but I don't think the difference is that great in road cars. I'm guessing the suspension is probably better suit to track use and less of a compromise as is the case with the M3.
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03-18-2009, 06:06 PM	#20
mixja Captain 50 Rep 780 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 DCT Silverstone Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Beverly Hils, CA iTrader: (1)	The results are not surprising - the 135s will have far superior mid-range torque, hence have a natural advantage accelerating out of any slow corners. This is reflected in the sector times. I'll bet the M3 carries more spped through the corners, it just loses time coming out of them...another factor could be brakes - anybody know if the 135s had brake upgrades? The M3 has far more horsepower and at a higher RPM, so it will always be faster on straights and high speed sweepers...
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