How difficult is to tamper with the mileage on E46 M3?

DennisCAN · 03-13-2011, 08:56 AM

Hi guys,

I am looking to buy a used M3 and I came across an E46 M3 from 2003 which has only 25K miles on it. It seems kind of low for a 8 years old car driven in a major city.

Does anybody know how difficult would be to temper with the mileage in this particular model, if possible at all.

Is there is a way of verifying if the mileage has been rolled back?

Thanks,
Dennis

mkoesel · 03-13-2011, 09:20 AM

Tamper, eh?

Probably not too easy. No different than any other modern vehicle, I'd say. I'm pretty sure it is encrypted in some way. Though in theory I suppose if you could flash the entire memory of whichever of the car's computers this info is stored on from that of a similar car that was almost brand new you could succeed in faking it. Sounds like a lot of work though. My guess is the mileage is legit, assuming you've seen the dash readout with your own two eyes.

ksoze · 03-13-2011, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennisCAN

Is there is a way of verifying if the mileage has been rolled back?

Get the service records. The car had to be serviced at various points and you should get the copies or ask where it was serviced. If it was not serviced or no records exist, then you have another reason to walk...run.

Mr. ///M3 RD · 03-13-2011, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennisCAN

Hi guys,

I am looking to buy a used M3 and I came across an E46 M3 from 2003 which has only 25K miles on it. It seems kind of low for a 8 years old car driven in a major city.

Does anybody know how difficult would be to temper with the mileage in this particular model, if possible at all.

Is there is a way of verifying if the mileage has been rolled back?

Thanks,
Dennis

I sold my 2002 last spring with 68K KM (42,253 Miles) on the odometer. I recommend you check the maintenance records at a BMW dealership (up here in Canada all dealers are connected for maintenance records on the computer). I further recommend that the seller provide a written BMW inspection report (that is a must in our part of the world).

The reports should tell you if the milage is true or not.

Personally I would not purchase a BMW unless it is a BMW Dealer certified car, you might pay a bit more then in the end you will know you have a good car.

Good Luck

BTW. The e46 was a super car

Just for your info, I sold mine for $25K Canadian.

Mr. ///M3 RD · 03-13-2011, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksoze

Get the service records. The car had to be serviced at various points and you should get the copies or ask where it was serviced. If it was not serviced or no records exist, then you have another reason to walk...run.

+100

Chill72 · 03-13-2011, 10:01 AM

It is actually quite easy, if you have appropriate software. I saw a clock turned back on the 08 lexus in 20 min. shaved off 40,000 miles

DennisCAN · 03-13-2011, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Tamper, eh?

Ouuups

Still didn't have my morning coffee. Sorry.
Corrected.

Thanks for info.

gblansten · 03-13-2011, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DennisCAN

Ouuups

Still didn't have my morning coffee. Sorry.
Corrected.

Thanks for info.

I was going too brake in hear and give some advise about you're car but Rolf-Dieter already gave the best response.

That's a fantastic idea.

DennisCAN · 03-13-2011, 10:19 AM

Thanks guys!
Will definitely request a service record.
Cheers,
Dennis

smmmurf · 03-13-2011, 10:39 AM

i have 10k on my 04 e46 m3 as it is my 4th car... it is possible

drvai · 03-13-2011, 10:50 AM

Also check wear un seats, pedals, shift knob, steering wheel, etc...

Seattle S65B40 · 03-13-2011, 02:27 PM

literally impossible. i recall learning that odometer information is stored in three locations in the E46s. Have the vehicle inspected if you're concerned. If there is not a match among the three notations, then you have a car that's been tampered with. I wish I had more details on the specifics, but I can assure, it's not just as easy as a software fix...

MVF4Rrider · 03-13-2011, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smmmurf

i have 10k on my 04 e46 m3 as it is my 4th car... it is possible

Yep. I have 17k on my '03 M3, and it's my DD.

BPMSport · 03-13-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40

literally impossible. i recall learning that odometer information is stored in three locations in the E46s. Have the vehicle inspected if you're concerned. If there is not a match among the three notations, then you have a car that's been tampered with. I wish I had more details on the specifics, but I can assure, it's not just as easy as a software fix...

Not impossible at all.

An expert can do it fairly easily actually. Make sure you inspect the car and that it looks like a 25K mile car.

It's easier to tamper with mileage on the E46's than the E90's.

Be careful.

mkoesel · 03-13-2011, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chill72

It is actually quite easy, if you have appropriate software. I saw a clock turned back on the 08 lexus in 20 min. shaved off 40,000 miles

That's interesting. What software is it and how does it work? I guess I will do some googling to see what I can find.

Chill72 · 03-13-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkoesel

That's interesting. What software is it and how does it work? I guess I will do some googling to see what I can find.

I'm not sure what it was but the guy showed with a laptop, hooked up to the car, did some computer shit and it's done. I'm the last person to know anything about computer stuff

mkoesel · 03-13-2011, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chill72

I'm not sure what it was but the guy showed with a laptop, hooked up to the car, did some computer shit and it's done. I'm the last person to know anything about computer stuff

Yeah, I did some searching and while one technique seems to be to replace the chip like I guessed, there was also talk of a software only approach just as you say. I'm a software engineer so this is interesting stuff to me.

I guess I should have known. I guess you really do have to be real careful and take mileage readings with a grain of salt and make sure they match service records and the wear on the rest of the car.

Legion5 · 03-13-2011, 07:35 PM

To whoever is saying that you should throw out the mileage readings all together, that's ridiculous. Maybe 1 in 500 modern cars have odometer tampering. You're more likely to get a car with undisclosed damage.

mkoesel · 03-14-2011, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legion5

To whoever is saying that you should throw out the mileage readings all together, that's ridiculous.

No one made a comment like that in this thread that I can see, but yeah if someone does then that would be overreacting. I think the best advice is to make sure the mileage jibes with the condition of the car and the records. That won't prevent fraud but it is cheap insurance.

Jaypod · 03-14-2011, 08:24 AM

No sure where in Canada you are, but I know in Ontario you can pull a vehicle abstract or used vehicle report. When you renew plate sticker every year or two you have to state your current mileage, this should be on there and should be reasonable accurate. I think you can now do it online and don't have to go to the ministry or a Service Ontario Kiosk. When you submit the drive clean on it every 4 years I think it states the mileage as well.

DennisCAN · 03-14-2011, 12:38 PM

Thank you all for sharing the info.
Much appreciated.

Cheers,
Dennis

Estoril Blue · 03-19-2011, 10:02 PM

It is almost impossible because (as noted above) the mileage is stored in multiple locations - some offline. So even a very sophisticated attempt cannot address or reconcile those offline storage locations. And as noted - it is logged by the dealer at each service.

Also - you need to look for a tamper dot on the dash. Google it. The tamper dot will illuminate if any stored mileage cannot be properly reconciled - or if the cluster is swapped.

03-13-2011, 08:56 AM	#1
DennisCAN Enlisted Member 25 Rep 47 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 E90, 2018 X3 M40i Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	How difficult is to tamper with the mileage on E46 M3? Hi guys, I am looking to buy a used M3 and I came across an E46 M3 from 2003 which has only 25K miles on it. It seems kind of low for a 8 years old car driven in a major city. Does anybody know how difficult would be to temper with the mileage in this particular model, if possible at all. Is there is a way of verifying if the mileage has been rolled back? Thanks, Dennis Last edited by DennisCAN; 03-13-2011 at 10:12 AM.. Reason: spelling ..
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03-13-2011, 09:20 AM	#2
mkoesel Moderator 7515 Rep 19,368 Posts Drives: No BMW for now Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canton, MI iTrader: (1)	Tamper, eh? Probably not too easy. No different than any other modern vehicle, I'd say. I'm pretty sure it is encrypted in some way. Though in theory I suppose if you could flash the entire memory of whichever of the car's computers this info is stored on from that of a similar car that was almost brand new you could succeed in faking it. Sounds like a lot of work though. My guess is the mileage is legit, assuming you've seen the dash readout with your own two eyes.
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03-13-2011, 10:01 AM	#6
Chill72 Banned 111 Rep 896 Posts Drives: 10 E92 M3 (RIP) Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	It is actually quite easy, if you have appropriate software. I saw a clock turned back on the 08 lexus in 20 min. shaved off 40,000 miles
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03-13-2011, 10:19 AM	#9
DennisCAN Enlisted Member 25 Rep 47 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 E90, 2018 X3 M40i Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	Thanks guys! Will definitely request a service record. Cheers, Dennis
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03-13-2011, 10:39 AM	#10
smmmurf Colonel 309 Rep 2,189 Posts Drives: E92 M3 DCT 353k+ miles Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Half Moon Bay, CA iTrader: (7)	i have 10k on my 04 e46 m3 as it is my 4th car... it is possible
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03-13-2011, 10:50 AM	#11
drvai Major 136 Rep 1,274 Posts Drives: E92 M3 AW Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	Also check wear un seats, pedals, shift knob, steering wheel, etc...
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03-13-2011, 02:27 PM	#12
Seattle S65B40 Major 213 Rep 1,395 Posts Drives: 2008 e92 M3 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: PNW iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW M3 [0.00]	literally impossible. i recall learning that odometer information is stored in three locations in the E46s. Have the vehicle inspected if you're concerned. If there is not a match among the three notations, then you have a car that's been tampered with. I wish I had more details on the specifics, but I can assure, it's not just as easy as a software fix... __________________ Club 6MT 2008 E92 M3 6MT, AW/Blk Ext., brushed aluminum 2006 E46 M3 ZCP 6MT Carbon blk/blk(sold) 2001 E46 325Xi 5MT Jet Blk/Blk (sold)
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03-13-2011, 07:35 PM	#18
Legion5 Major 175 Rep 1,379 Posts Drives: e92 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (12)	To whoever is saying that you should throw out the mileage readings all together, that's ridiculous. Maybe 1 in 500 modern cars have odometer tampering. You're more likely to get a car with undisclosed damage. __________________ Clean cars are happy cars! CANON PHOTOGRAPHER
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03-14-2011, 08:24 AM	#20
Jaypod Brigadier General 125 Rep 4,971 Posts Drives: Frozen M3, AM V8V, 991 GT3 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Toronto iTrader: (7)	No sure where in Canada you are, but I know in Ontario you can pull a vehicle abstract or used vehicle report. When you renew plate sticker every year or two you have to state your current mileage, this should be on there and should be reasonable accurate. I think you can now do it online and don't have to go to the ministry or a Service Ontario Kiosk. When you submit the drive clean on it every 4 years I think it states the mileage as well.
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03-14-2011, 12:38 PM	#21
DennisCAN Enlisted Member 25 Rep 47 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 E90, 2018 X3 M40i Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	Thank you all for sharing the info. Much appreciated. Cheers, Dennis
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03-19-2011, 10:02 PM	#22
Estoril Blue First Lieutenant 75 Rep 387 Posts Drives: 2006 M3 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Maryland iTrader: (0)	It is almost impossible because (as noted above) the mileage is stored in multiple locations - some offline. So even a very sophisticated attempt cannot address or reconcile those offline storage locations. And as noted - it is logged by the dealer at each service. Also - you need to look for a tamper dot on the dash. Google it. The tamper dot will illuminate if any stored mileage cannot be properly reconciled - or if the cluster is swapped.
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