Heat Soak Testing an ESS VT1-535 with IAT data and vBox results

[IMG]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Good question. I hope Roman got it on video and can post it.

Cliff notes> clean start at around 40mph. Initially even...then Roman slowly crept maybe 5-7 feet...and then I stopped his creep and started creeping at the end. I need to see to vid to see how it ended, but I think Roman might have been ahead by a few feet.

Roman - does that sound about right?

Just after running Roman I raced Larry's ESS 625 and I pulled on him. I pulled because I intentionally jumped the start then he put a couple car lengths on me.

I dont think it was a clean start on your part but you should mention the boost leak that Romans car had and you even saw the ripped boots.but at the end,you still lost . your car is quick but a win is a win,doesn't matter by a mile or an inch !

Also,i heard lare put more than a couple of cars on you !

Good work,Can't wait to see your M3 tho

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by img

I dont think it was a clean start on your part but you should mention the boost leak that Romans car had and you even saw the ripped boots.but at the end,you still lost . your car is quick but a win is a win,doesn't matter by a mile or an inch !

Also,i heard lare put more than a couple of cars on you !

Good work,Can't wait to see your M3 tho

Regarding Larry's car, yes it's a beast. I didn't run him expected it to even be close. As a prospective buyer of a supercharger, I wanted to see what it could do. Guys who were spectating told me it a couple of cars. I'd love to see a vid of this.

Re the run with Roman, we were side by side at the start from what I remember. Hopefully there is a vid. Roman did say his car was down about 15 Hp from a boost leak. Look, I'm not one make excuses...but if you want to go tit-for-tat, I was experiencing intermittant meth flow most of the day. And my car was inching on the top end but we had to brake for turn 1.

[Longboarder]

I'm looking at my logs and trying to figure out which ones' related to which runs. None are clean and I'm not sure if this is the log of my run with Roman but you get the idea:

[E90///M3`]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Just after running Roman I raced Larry's ESS 625 and I pulled on him. I pulled because I intentionally jumped the start then he put a couple car lengths on me.

i tried doing that to him at the drag strip... i got a good 3-4/10's reaction on him and he still killed me hahaha

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Well, I'm not full bolt on. Just 4 bolt ons. SAE 412/446 at EAS Dyno. I'm sure your car would beat mine...you probably have a 100+ RWHP advantage. Anyway it was a fun time today. It's my last event with the 335 and I'm sad to see it go. No better bang for the buck. I log 0-60 in 3.5 seconds all day long on the V-Box just by starting in 2nd gear. And it can hang with both a 6MT and DCT 535 e92 M3 at triple-digit speeds. My M3 should be here in August and I'm looking forward to seeing what I can do with it. I have some things up my sleeve that haven't been done before on this platform, which I shared with Roman...and I'm looking forward to getting started.

You're sure his VT650 would beat your 335I?

Adam, great seeing you yesterday, but let's just be clear on a few things here. Your car would get absolutely annihilated by a VT625, that's just a fact, one event yesterday doesn't change that.

We already know that you can't beat a VT535, 6MT or DCT, and even a VT535 with stock exhaust and torn intake hoses. Here's a vid VT535 and VT625, to give you an example of what M33 would do to your car in his VT650.

FWIW, I showed you the torn TB boots on Roman's car, he didn't even run anyone except you, didn't want too because his car was not 100%, why are you boasting about this run, when you know his car had several torn TB hoses? Roman has no idea how much power he was down, I'm just not sure why, knowing this you would post as if your run was somehow 100% accurate, you don't seem like that kind of a guy, so maybe I'm missing something here?

Regarding the two VT535's, 6MT vs DCT stuff, we are talking two different cars. Roman's DCT, has a completely stock exhaust / cats, and had several torn TB intake hoses. The 6MT 535 that Longboarder ran at the event, has a modified exhaust system, 200psi cats, so it's making more power, and more importantly the TB hoses were not torn, lol. Most of us here know the majority of power from NA cars comes from removing the stock primary cats.

I'll also add from my experience race gas does very little to none, on the dyno and in Mexico for me, of course others may have experienced different results.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by GIdriver

So much for the DCT theory.

In MOST cases the 6MT is comprable to a DCT at much higher speeds, one video posted here does not change that. Several owners here will tell you that as well as cartest simulations.

[Longboarder]

Hey Drew it was terrific meet you! And thanks for answering all my questions about your car. I wish it was running 100% so I could see it in action.

If you read all these threads here, I don't think I'm being boastful at all...to the contrary, it seems like people here are a bit defensive that a 335 owner is coming here and posting about running against their supercharged M3's and making a good race out of it. I came to this site because I want a supercharged M3, but was interested at how a stock turbo 335 (down maybe 60 RWHP) could hang with one. I want to understand everything I can about the types of superchargers available and how they perform in all conditions, given that I will be attending future track and roll-on events...at elevation and in the heat of the California desert.

I'm not some 335 fanboy coming over here boasting about races. But that's how I'm being treated by some. So perhaps I'm getting a little annoyed at those and I'm sorry if that comes across to you and the others who are being very helpful to me in my research.

[erm324]

Originally Posted by m33

Longboarder I don't see how that race was as close as you describe I'm a bit confused , my buddy Ricky ( Erm ) who was DCT M with full bolt on's raced an other buddy who has a 335 MT with full bolt on's and Ricky always wheeled him in for the win , actually Erm is the camera car in the video I posted and my other buddy in it as well ( far left white car ) and you can see how he gained and gained fast , he even started late ..

Then again Ricky raced a 6mt 535 equipped car and had similar results like you had....

Weird ....

Yet me with 90 additional HP completely nialate these set ups and I'm MT and.... I was getting wheel spin in 2nd & 3rd .....
Only thing I can figure to justify the results is the weather these high compression motors are delicate and prune to hot/humid weather worse than a turbo'd car that has air to air cooling although both are reliable and safe but air to air is a bit more effective, I could be wrong I'm no tech so what do I know ...

I know when I dyno'd I went from 560 - 590's by just simply spraying the IC with Cool water... That's why I'm installing meth it should give me consistent Peak performance ..

Spot on !

Longboarder I ran into a 535 6MT and ran him twice when I was catless exhaust, intake, pulleys in my DCT with NO TUNE and was door to door with him and even pulled at times, here is the video:

FWIW I've never lost to a FBO+Meth 335 on the street before. My buddy matt set the record for the non nitrous stock turbo 60-130 record and we have raced many many many times and every time we would be even and sometimes I would even reel him in and beat him if he didnt strip his interior etc. The camera car is me in the video zim posted, and the fbo+meth+racegas etc etc 335 was in the left lane...you clearly see me coming in on him.

Heres a video of zims old car 6 speed against the same fbo+meth 335:

To be honest, at the end of the day I completely believe you were even with the 535 6speed (And probably beat him), but against the 535 DCT I dont think you should have stood any chance....DCT 535s around here have ran 11.2 with traps at 126 (1sickm has hit those times). DCT is a HUGE difference on the supercharged platform and anyone who begs otherwise is just a complete idiot (but top end the 6 speeds are VERY strong and have better gearing). Me m33 izzy etc... have seen this first hand way too many times.

Also, I think the 625 kit shouldnt have gotten you by 3-4 cars, but buslengths...

[duk]

we've gotten really off topic here lol

but thanks again for all the hard work at the folks behind alekshop and friends

[IMG]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Regarding Larry's car, yes it's a beast. I didn't run him expected it to even be close. As a prospective buyer of a supercharger, I wanted to see what it could do. Guys who were spectating told me it a couple of cars. I'd love to see a vid of this.

Re the run with Roman, we were side by side at the start from what I remember. Hopefully there is a vid. Roman did say his car was down about 15 Hp from a boost leak. Look, I'm not one make excuses...but if you want to go tit-for-tat, I was experiencing intermittant meth flow most of the day. And my car was inching on the top end but we had to brake for turn 1.

I know that you are interested in a SC, i just wanted to clarify that there were issues with the car that were not mentioned in your post,thats all

[IMG]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Hey Drew it was terrific meet you! And thanks for answering all my questions about your car. I wish it was running 100% so I could see it in action.

If you read all these threads here, I don't think I'm being boastful at all...to the contrary, it seems like people here are a bit defensive that a 335 owner is coming here and posting about running against their supercharged M3's and making a good race out of it. I came to this site because I want a supercharged M3, but was interested at how a stock turbo 335 (down maybe 60 RWHP) could hang with one. I want to understand everything I can about the types of superchargers available and how they perform in all conditions, given that I will be attending future track and roll-on events...at elevation and in the heat of the California desert.

I'm not some 335 fanboy coming over here boasting about races. But that's how I'm being treated by some. So perhaps I'm getting a little annoyed at those and I'm sorry if that comes across to you and the others who are being very helpful to me in my research.

BTW i used to own an all done up 135i and i know what the N54 motor is capable of doing.i do actually miss that car from time to time cause it was such a sleeper.
There is no doubt you want to compare your 335 to a SC'd M3 but you have to understand that they are 2 different plat forms.6MT vs DCT vs Auto.
And im not discrediting your car in anyway,im just trying to clarify some points .

[sales@ESSTuning]

I had fun this weekend. I did not setup my GoPro's because I did not plan to run anyone after I noticed I had accidentally damaged 3 of my intake hoses which were causing a boost leak. I did want to still give Longboarder a run for the day because he wanted to see how his car would do. I did discuss and show him the damage so that he could set expectations accordingly. I did also apologize for not giving him a 100% fair comparison after but racing is racing and it did prove that with the mods he has done to his car and when his meth is working he could hang with a DCT 535 M3 up to 120 mph. I don't think he could beat a 535 M3 unless he ran a manual car with a below average driver.

Getting back on topic the VT1 had 0 issues with heat. Other than the run with LB I did some solo runs and runs against Drew to do some heat soak testing. There were times where I had to actually warm the car up between runs after the car sat for a bit. Power was consistent all day and I have never had to think twice about heat while running this kit. LB did educate me on the issues with water meth boiling over in the 335's I was not aware of. I was a bit surprised that he had to go thru quite a bit of work to control the use of his WM setup, not something I would ever want to deal with to be honest but when it worked it added enough power for his car to be pretty darn fast.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Hey Drew it was terrific meet you! And thanks for answering all my questions about your car. I wish it was running 100% so I could see it in action.

Likewise you are a super nice guy and a passionate enthusiast, as I said I'm looking forward to seeing what you can do with your M3, regardless of what kit you go with. I was bummed about my car, ESS drove it back with them to AZ to check it out, as well as doing some other work we had previously discussed. The next event isn't for awhile and I hope to be there. Larry's vt625 did well, he was only a car behind a ZR1, which took the tuner challenge at the airfield event last Feb. the ZR1 beat just about everyone at the airfield event.

Originally Posted by Longboarder

If you read all these threads here, I don't think I'm being boastful at all...to the contrary, it seems like people here are a bit defensive that a 335 owner is coming here and posting about running against their supercharged M3's and making a good race out of it. I came to this site because I want a supercharged M3, but was interested at how a stock turbo 335 (down maybe 60 RWHP) could hang with one. I want to understand everything I can about the types of superchargers available and how they perform in all conditions, given that I will be attending future track and roll-on events...at elevation and in the heat of the California desert.

I don't think you're being boastful in general here, I think you're very civil and level headed, I'm only talking about the one run with Roman, I just don't think you should take anything concrete away from that run because of the issue he had, that's all I was referring too.

Originally Posted by Longboarder

I'm not some 335 fanboy coming over here boasting about races. But that's how I'm being treated by some. So perhaps I'm getting a little annoyed at those and I'm sorry if that comes across to you and the others who are being very helpful to me in my research.

I don't think you're a fanboy, you're a knowledgable guy who likes to do a lot of research, etc. The 335I has accomplished a lot and is an amazing car, I think if the Vishnu single turbo car had been there, it would have done very well. There's plenty of info out there already on what these supercharged M3's can do.

[GIdriver]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

In MOST cases the 6MT is comprable to a DCT at much higher speeds, one video posted here does not change that. Several owners here will tell you that as well as cartest simulations.

Thanks. That's what Im realizing.

BTW, PM'd you earlier today.

[m33]

Now that explains it , a minor boost leak in a supercharged car can net you 1-2 psi easily ! I know cause I experienced the same exact thing Roman experienced , now boost leak from 3 boots is serious and I find it impressive and funny at the same time that M still beat you with those issues but....... You did fail to mention that Roman had boost leaks and failing to do so does seem you being anxiously proud of your car ( which everyone is guilty on that ) but it's understandable at the same token .

For the record !!! A full bolt on 335 with Meth is not to be taken lightly !! Those fuckers move........... And I find them joyfully impressive ! my buddy's Matt's car if freaking fun to drive and te car has serious kick especially in the TQ department

My 6mt 625 kit compared to my 650 DCT kit is like comparing a midget on steroids to a 6ft tall Dude on steroids!!!

The DCT is retarted in supercharged platform and Cannot be compared in stock platform ! PERIOD ! I could care less what anyone has to say to this and keep it to your self

There is a small difference when a 6mt vs a dct in stock platform race compared to a equally equipped supercharged 6mt vs Dct ... Just think of a dct catching up shifts 1,500 rpm earlier than a 6mt ... That's 60-70 whp advantage on a stock platform it's 20whp if that get the idea ...

Now do your self and your car a favor and slap a ESS tuning 650 kit along with a meth setup and go get your hard on "on "
cheers

[erm324]

Originally Posted by m33

There is a small difference when a 6mt vs a dct in stock platform race compared to a equally equipped supercharged 6mt vs Dct ... Just think of a dct catching up shifts 1,500 rpm earlier than a 6mt ... That's 60-70 whp advantage on a stock platform it's 20whp if that get the idea ...

+1, Alot of people fail to understand this

[flipm3]

I love seeing data like this.

Thanks for sharing! Great work to everyone involved in the project.

[m33]

Originally Posted by flipm3

I love seeing data like this.

Thanks for sharing! Great work to everyone involved in the project.

Me too & the efforts from Alekshop are much appreciated as it gives the consumer a peace of mind knowing what's going on behind the scenes of their car

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by img

BTW i used to own an all done up 135i and i know what the N54 motor is capable of doing.i do actually miss that car from time to time cause it was such a sleeper.
There is no doubt you want to compare your 335 to a SC'd M3 but you have to understand that they are 2 different plat forms.6MT vs DCT vs Auto.
And im not discrediting your car in anyway,im just trying to clarify some points .

I'm ready to hug it out

By the way...I'd like to put into perspective for everyone who wasn't there, a couple of things. First, the race is over a very short distance. This is not like illegal highway racing with miles of open road. This is on the back straight of a racetrack. We start from a roll and the race is over in maybe 8-9 seconds. Case in point. For the run against BigLare, the fact that I intentionally jumped the start (and with +1 passenger) he could stop my pull, and then pull a couple cars in a matter of just a few seconds is extremely impressive. It takes a +200HP delta to do that. This thing is a rocket, no doubt about it. And the fact that it occurred at maybe 4,500 DA's is even more impressive (as I understand high DA's affect supercharged cars more than turbocharged cars). Some of you have shared vids (thank you) of ESS kits vs various cars and my guess is that these runs take place at much lower DA's. I would still like to understand the effect of high DA's a bit more on the supercharged platforms and see if there is a way to reduce the performance delta given our "legal" racing options here in SoCal.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

I'm ready to hug it out

By the way...I'd like to put into perspective for everyone who wasn't there, a couple of things. First, the race is over a very short distance. This is not like illegal highway racing with miles of open road. This is on the back straight of a racetrack. We start from a roll and the race is over in maybe 8-9 seconds. Case in point. For the run against BigLare, the fact that I intentionally jumped the start (and with +1 passenger) he could stop my pull, and then pull a couple cars in a matter of just a few seconds is extremely impressive. It takes a +200HP delta to do that. This thing is a rocket, no doubt about it. And the fact that it occurred at maybe 4,500 DA's is even more impressive (as I understand high DA's affect supercharged cars more than turbocharged cars). Some of you have shared vids (thank you) of ESS kits vs various cars and my guess is that these runs take place at much lower DA's. I would still like to understand the effect of high DA's a bit more on the supercharged platforms and see if there is a way to reduce the performance delta given our "legal" racing options here in SoCal.

Well said!

[Alekshop]

Adam,

The purpose of this test was to show a consumer how ESS Supercharged NON-Intercooled M3 behaves under different driving conditions.

I understand you are trying to figure out why VT535 ran neck to neck with your 335, however you can't just compare 2 cars ... driver is a part of the equation.

I wish you would have approached me at that event and I would run with you just to clear up the air.

As a matter of fact, if you are visiting Norcal, please feel free to stop by and I can give you a ride in VT535 car so you can see how consistent it runs and there are no issues with heat soaking.

Aleks.

[IMG]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

I'm ready to hug it out

By the way...I'd like to put into perspective for everyone who wasn't there, a couple of things. First, the race is over a very short distance. This is not like illegal highway racing with miles of open road. This is on the back straight of a racetrack. We start from a roll and the race is over in maybe 8-9 seconds. Case in point. For the run against BigLare, the fact that I intentionally jumped the start (and with +1 passenger) he could stop my pull, and then pull a couple cars in a matter of just a few seconds is extremely impressive. It takes a +200HP delta to do that. This thing is a rocket, no doubt about it. And the fact that it occurred at maybe 4,500 DA's is even more impressive (as I understand high DA's affect supercharged cars more than turbocharged cars). Some of you have shared vids (thank you) of ESS kits vs various cars and my guess is that these runs take place at much lower DA's. I would still like to understand the effect of high DA's a bit more on the supercharged platforms and see if there is a way to reduce the performance delta given our "legal" racing options here in SoCal.

You wanna hug it out ? lets hug it out ! haha
I wasn't trying to sound like a d**k,i just wanted to make things clear