Noelle Motors 4.6l conversion

[BMW269]

Well, its nothing new, but plus to Dinan an RDsport, Noelle Motors also has an increased capacity upgrade for the S65 engine: 4.6l V8, 520 hp@8.3K and 500 Nm@4.2K . Its a good thing for those that are in Europe.
http://www.noellemotors.de/4_6l_engi...ee94848.0.html

There is also a stroker kit for the S85 engine: 5.8l V10 630 hp, 630 Nm.

If not, I do not know if its the right place to ask my question, but does a stroker kit affect the perfect balance of the M3? Increased capacity should mean more weight, and so more heavy front?

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by Levi

Well, its nothing new, but plus to Dinan an RDsport, Noelle Motors also has an increased capacity upgrade for the S65 engine: 4.6l V8, 520 hp@8.3K and 500 Nm@4.2K . Its a good thing for those that are in Europe.
http://www.noellemotors.de/4_6l_engi...ee94848.0.html

There is also a stroker kit for the S85 engine: 5.8l V10 630 hp, 630 Nm.

If not, I do not know if its the right place to ask my question, but does a stroker kit affect the perfect balance of the M3? Increased capacity should mean more weight, and so more heavy front?

Umm...no, a stroker kit won't generally INCREASE weight of the engine. It may in fact stay the same. In many cases the overall weight of the stroker engine will actually DECREASE the overall weight due to the lighter weight internal engine parts used in many stroker engine kits.

Aftermarket performance shops with the proper training, tools, and experience to build a stroker engine, typical use lightweight forged steel connecting rods and lightweight forged aluminum pistons.

These aftermarket spec'd engine parts are on average lighter than their stock OEM parts they are replacing.

It also depends on whether the engine was BORED and STROKED...or just STROKED. (leaving the orignal factory bore sizing intact)

In some cases, the OE CRANKSHAFT is replaced...in some cases it is not.

If the crankshaft is replaced with an aftermarket one, it is even more important to balance the entire reciprocating mass as a single unit to avoid damaging engine vibrations issues later on.

It takes a lot of experience and technical knowledge to properly build a BMW stroker engine. It's certainly not something you'd want your local engine builder (who builds 350 Chevy engines) to try.

[askiles]

Originally Posted by Levi

Well, its nothing new, but plus to Dinan an RDsport, Noelle Motors also has an increased capacity upgrade for the S65 engine: 4.6l V8, 520 hp@8.3K and 500 Nm@4.2K . Its a good thing for those that are in Europe.
http://www.noellemotors.de/4_6l_engi...ee94848.0.html

There is also a stroker kit for the S85 engine: 5.8l V10 630 hp, 630 Nm.

If not, I do not know if its the right place to ask my question, but does a stroker kit affect the perfect balance of the M3? Increased capacity should mean more weight, and so more heavy front?

The stroker kit probably only weighs a few more pounds if that. The stroke crank is just longer, but no by much. I would imagine the weight difference is negligible.

-Andy

[BMW269]

Thanks for the replies. About the quality there is nothing to doubt with Dinan, RDSport or Noelle Motors (former BMW ALPINA engine development responsible) . So if the weight is not an issue, it may be better than a supercharger, for it is more reliable.

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

If the crankshaft is replaced with an aftermarket one, it is even more important to balance the entire reciprocating mass as a single unit to avoid damaging engine vibrations issues later on.

I think that's critical to do on a +15% stroker engine revving to 8K+ rpm, regardless what's replaced, but could be wrong. Great point man.

[askiles]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Umm...no, a stroker kit won't generally INCREASE weight of the engine. It may in fact stay the same. In many cases the overall weight of the stroker engine will actually DECREASE the overall weight due to the lighter weight internal engine parts used in many stroker engine kits.

Aftermarket performance shops with the proper training, tools, and experience to build a stroker engine, typical use lightweight forged steel connecting rods and lightweight forged aluminum pistons.

These aftermarket spec'd engine parts are on average lighter than their stock OEM parts they are replacing.

It also depends on whether the engine was BORED and STROKED...or just STROKED. (leaving the orignal factory bore sizing intact)

In some cases, the OE CRANKSHAFT is replaced...in some cases it is not.

If the crankshaft is replaced with an aftermarket one, it is even more important to balance the entire reciprocating mass as a single unit to avoid damaging engine vibrations issues later on.

It takes a lot of experience and technical knowledge to properly build a BMW stroker engine. It's certainly not something you'd want your local engine builder (who builds 350 Chevy engines) to try.

Due to the fact that all stock internals are already forged aluminum pieces, I would think the crank would weigh a pound or two more due to the longer stroke.

-Andy

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by askiles

Due to the fact that all stock internals are already forged aluminum pieces, I would think the crank would weigh a pound or two more due to the longer stroke.

-Andy

Not necessarily Andy.

The stock S65 engine uses forged steel/magnesium connecting rods, but the stock pistons are not forged. They are made of CAST aluminum which have a durable iron metal anti-friction coating on the piston skirts.

I believe the OE manufacturer of those pistons is MAHLE.

The crankshaft is made of high-strength forged steel, not aluminum.

The OE BMW Motorsort crankshaft uses counter-balancing weights to reduce engine vibration in the 90 degree S65 V8 engine, so if the aftermarket crank is custom machined without these (or smaller lighter ones)...then you could still end up with a lighter overall crankshaft despite the longer throw.

Our OE crankshaft may or may not weigh more depending it's construction.

BTW: Aluminum connecting rods (even forged ones) would be far too fragile to handle the stress of 8000+ rpms for a street car. It wouldn't take much time for these to fail under high stress loads. Some engines like the Corvette Z06 use forged titanium connecting rods to reduce overall reciprocating mass in the large 7.0-liter V8 engine. It also uses CAST aluminum pistons by the way...

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

if the aftermarket crank is custom machined without these (or smaller lighter ones)...then you could still end up with a lighter overall crankshaft despite the longer throw.

I'd say no way countershaft weights could be reduced after adding displacement (and power). Maybe left the same, like some manufacturers do when enlarging their engines, but it'd be unacceptable on an M3 IMO.
You could get away with that on an I6 engine since it has perfect primary and secondary balance, but a 90º V8 has only perfect primary balance (no need for counterrotating balance shafts), so you need to quell the secondary order vibrations. It'd be nice to hear from the stroker folks to see what they're actually doing in that regard. And from stroker owners to see if they perceive more engine vibration. Doing things right definitely costs a lot of money, so I wouldn't be surprised if you're correct. Good day.

[Checkcaptain]

Originally Posted by Levi

Well, its nothing new, but plus to Dinan an RDsport, Noelle Motors also has an increased capacity upgrade for the S65 engine: 4.6l V8, 520 hp@8.3K and 500 Nm@4.2K . Its a good thing for those that are in Europe.
http://www.noellemotors.de/4_6l_engi...ee94848.0.html

There is also a stroker kit for the S85 engine: 5.8l V10 630 hp, 630 Nm.

If not, I do not know if its the right place to ask my question, but does a stroker kit affect the perfect balance of the M3? Increased capacity should mean more weight, and so more heavy front?

Thanks for the hint - I was in contact with RD and Dinan already, since I do have a spare S65 engine already sitting in my garage and waiting for the job!
But now things should be much easier for me

[lucid]

Originally Posted by Levi

Well, its nothing new, but plus to Dinan an RDsport, Noelle Motors also has an increased capacity upgrade for the S65 engine: 4.6l V8, 520 hp@8.3K and 500 Nm@4.2K . Its a good thing for those that are in Europe.
http://www.noellemotors.de/4_6l_engi...ee94848.0.html

There is also a stroker kit for the S85 engine: 5.8l V10 630 hp, 630 Nm.

If not, I do not know if its the right place to ask my question, but does a stroker kit affect the perfect balance of the M3? Increased capacity should mean more weight, and so more heavy front?

Do you know how much this costs? I could not locate it on their website.

[BMW269]

Wow, the RDSport crank looks so much better than the OEM crank. It look lighter and of better quality.
As for the price I do not know, but I do not think it is convenient for those that are not in EU, unless NM has some other places where they can do the work.

[Strax]

Well, Noelle is in Germany and Racing Dynamics are in Italy...

[RDSport]

I have a feeling, lookinag t bore/stroke ratios and previous conversations i have had with KO Noelle, that him and Dinan are cooperating. He claimed to me that Dinan's original V10 stroker was his development. Did Dinan return the favour on the V8?

Racing Dynamics S.p.A. and RDSport sell the same RS46 product, so if you want worldwide support from 1 company, you have an option.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by RDSport

I have a feeling, lookinag t bore/stroke ratios and previous conversations i have had with KO Noelle, that him and Dinan are cooperating. He claimed to me that Dinan's original V10 stroker was his development. Did Dinan return the favour on the V8?

Racing Dynamics S.p.A. and RDSport sell the same RS46 product, so if you want worldwide support from 1 company, you have an option.

Your crankshaft, reminds me of a forged crankshaft I've seen in an 3.4L S54B32 stroker engine. It was custom made by Arrow Precision in England.

It was made using low-sulphur CORUS EN40B chromium-molybdenum nitrided steel. (hardened and tempered)

[Genro757]

Hmmm..I think I'm gonna contact these guys for pricing...they're also located in Fussen...if anyone has ever been in that area...its where the Neuschweinstein castle is located...and the roads there are absolutley amazing and scenic!!!!

[Poppin Fresh]

PencilGeek, that photo explanation just made my jaw drop. Like you said, that crank looks sooO good compared to the OEM S65 crankshaft. Smooth+less turbulance and better flow= One Bad Mama Jama of an Engine!

[Swancoat]

Originally Posted by Poppin Fresh

PencilGeek, that photo explanation just made my jaw drop. Like you said, that crank looks sooO good compared to the OEM S65 crankshaft. Smooth+less turbulance and better flow= One Bad Mama Jama of an Engine!

I was not aware that airflow/turbulence were issues with a crankshaft (and I'm a bit skeptical). I figured it was all about balance.

[Moxie]

Subscribed - Info on their tune & stroker attached -

[Moxie]

I recv'd an e-mail from Karl-Otto Noelle of Noelle Motors. The stroker costs 22,000 Euro. Take 19% VAT off that it and at the current conversion rate it equates to $26,437. I think I'll pass. I was hoping it'd be around the $8K range. That, I'd do.

He didn't offer up the Tune cost yet. This may be a more affordable option.

[pepper]

^ wow, hard price to eat

[Moxie]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

The full RDS stroker with installation costs $32,800 USD; Dinan basic stroker Stage-1 without installation $26,000 USD. I'm not sure why the Noelle price is a shock to anybody. It's basically right in line with what you should have expected.

I had no idea - Never researched it. I got a e-mail on the 476 HP tune - It can be had for under $4K.

Here's a couple more tunes from the Brits complete with exhaust -

http://ca-automotive.co.uk/products-...faWQ9OA==.html

[TX]

Originally Posted by Moxie

I had no idea - Never researched it. I got a e-mail on the 476 HP tune - It can be had for under $4K.

Here's a couple more tunes from the Brits complete with exhaust -

http://ca-automotive.co.uk/products-...faWQ9OA==.html

The 4k is USD? Is that for the Noelle chip tune? How do we handle an ECU mailed to the EU? I guess a reflash with mailing to the EU would be a pain if the dealer decided to flash over it at some point.