M division selling out??

ModLikeMad · 09-17-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by immiketoo

People hate change. Pure and simple. I'm sure the "Purists" complained about the horseless carriage too. I'll take my 414 horses and leave the horse shit to the purists.

+1 It is sad to see the amazing amount of unilateral thinking that goes on around here sometimes. BMW is a highlyt acclaimed auto manufacturer and performance car builder because they always strive for the best! So maybe the new v6 turbo is not something you will like, but it may be something that someone else likes. I've heard in this very thread something about a "thrashy V6" and how it seemingly can't live up to the current V8...BS!!! Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the current engine, but the thought of a V6 that consumes less gas and puts out more ponies is definitely a win win for everyone, not to mention the weight savings... If you think that adding FI is a bad idea, go say that to Porsche as they drive circles around you. FI can be awsome when done right, and I think that before you go jumping off the band wagon, why not give the company you love so much the opportunity to make you fall in love with it all over again. After all, no one wants to keep getting their ass kicked by a 480 hp twin turbo V6 like the GT-R forever!!

hogwild · 09-17-2009, 10:15 PM

Ive owned many sports cars and the Porsche sound was unmatchable! When I first heard the V8 in the M3 I thought I was home again to my roots and a sweet V8! I dont care really what BMW does in the future you can never match the sweet sound of a V8 to any other motor!! Hell, you can always go faster, but will it give you goosebumps when you press the gas?

:happy anim:

spyderco10 · 09-18-2009, 01:12 AM

There was a time when people resisted things like air bags and anti lock brakes.

mixja · 09-18-2009, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

Agree with most of what you said. M is a sell out after I saw and experienced the X6 M over the weekend. Other than it looks nice, it is one hell of a horrible POS tank. 6800 rpm redline on an M car is a joke. They gave up on the defining characteristic of an M car - high-revving engine. That is what made M. It is like Porsche not making rear-engine 911s anymore.

Who the hell wants to wring the revs out of an SUV? SUV owners expect and want lots of torque - the M badge applied to an SUV stands for something totally different compared to the M badge applied to a sports coupe/sedan...

Eugene-TAIWAN · 09-18-2009, 05:05 AM

If I can in the future, I want a M car + Porsche GT3, GT3RS, or GT2

footie · 09-18-2009, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixja

Who the hell wants to wring the revs out of an SUV? SUV owners expect and want lots of torque - the M badge applied to an SUV stands for something totally different compared to the M badge applied to a sports coupe/sedan...

Couldn't agree more but then is that such a bad thing. Porsche has shown that it can place it's philosophy to an SUV and turn it into something that though it isn't the same as their sportscar to drive it's actually still fun to drive and does change people opinions on how entertaining these cars can be.

If BMW are able to do something similar then I see them being just as successful.

mkoesel · 09-18-2009, 06:22 AM

I'm not going to answer the poll because I don't believe in brand loyalty in the first place (I buy the best car that fits my needs and budget) and besides I just got my E93 last year and the next M3 is years off. So its way too premature to make proclaimations about future purchases at this time.

I will say this though: I don't particularly look forward to having to be convinced to by a product. The best products sell themselves in garnering critical acclaim from early adopters and industry reviewers. We'll see if the next M3 is able to do this as well as all the past ones have. I'm sure M will have another brilliant car cooked up. But the move to FI and, if it happens, a V6 could be the most controversial moves for the bread-and-butter M car yet. For me, if it is not a high revving powerplant then it will be a tough choice to go with the M3. On the other hand, unless someone else steps in with an 8000 RPM motor then there won't be anything comparable to the old M's choose from anyway. Audi is rumored to be continuing with the high revving 4.2L V8 for the RS5. I'm no AWD fan but that car is definitely going to get a test drive by me if they stick with that N/A V8.

Edit: RS5, not S5.

BMWI6 · 09-18-2009, 06:37 AM

I want the next gen M3 to be a twin turbo I6 not a V6

bigjae1976 · 09-18-2009, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

6800 rpm redline on an M car is a joke. They gave up on the defining characteristic of an M car - high-revving engine. That is what made M. It is like Porsche not making rear-engine 911s anymore.

I don't think the E36 M3 revved up to 8k, did it? IIRC, the US spec M3 wasn't too far from the 328 as far as power goes.

What defines the ///M brand to me? Nothing else except that M cars are street cars that are track ready out of the box.

It doesn't matter if they use an I6, V6, V8 or a 2 cycle lawn mower engine, I think M cars will continue to be represent some of the best cars available.

As I've said elsewhere, if the M division has to pump out X6Ms and X5Ms to keep making M3s...then I'm 100% fine with that.

mkoesel · 09-18-2009, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixja

Who the hell wants to wring the revs out of an SUV? SUV owners expect and want lots of torque - the M badge applied to an SUV stands for something totally different compared to the M badge applied to a sports coupe/sedan...

A fair point - however I will offer some counter points.

First of all, the M3 does have lots of torque. High revving does not necessarily mean low torque. If you do a search it puts more torque to the wheels in most gears (all?) at most (all?) RPM than a 335i does. Plus, if someone wants an SUV with a lot of low RPM torque, then BMW already provides the turbo-charged V8 in the normal X6 xDrive50.

Secondly, the the form factor for a vehicle should not have any bearing on how it drives. A 3500lb SUV with a reasonably low ride height and an S65 in the engine bay should behave dynamically just like an M3. It is the the 5000lb plus weight of the X6 and X5 that make them poorly suited for a traditional M motor, not the fact that they offer a package designed for utility and hauling a lot of passengers or cargo. In fact, BMW makes an M5 wagon that behaves very nearly like the M5 sedan - high revving S85 powerplant and all.

J08M3 · 09-18-2009, 07:21 AM

Selling out.... have they ever not been in it for the money?? BMW makes cars for one reason.... profit. The enthusiasts just followed.

Nawaaz · 09-18-2009, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J08M3

Selling out.... have they ever not been in it for the money?? BMW makes cars for one reason.... profit. The enthusiasts just followed.

Aren't all car manufacturers in it for the money?

Afterall, there's no motive if there's little to no profit, right?

J08M3 · 09-18-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nawaaz

Aren't all car manufacturers in it for the money?

Afterall, there's no motive if there's little to no profit, right?

exactly my point...

skierman64 · 09-18-2009, 08:08 AM

As long as the M3 remains a great car I could care less about what other cars get a M badge. It doesn't effect the car I'm interested in in the least. I didn't buy the car for the reputation, I bought it for the performance.

J08M3 · 09-18-2009, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skierman64

As long as the M3 remains a great car I could care less about what other cars get a M badge. It doesn't effect the car I'm interested in in the least. I didn't buy the car for the reputation, I bought it for the performance.

+1

Nawaaz · 09-18-2009, 08:42 AM

+2

SlammedR8 · 09-18-2009, 08:43 AM

+3

immiketoo · 09-18-2009, 08:53 AM

I had a bi-turbo S4 for six years, and I LOVED the power delivery, high revs and the sound. I also liked the looks on many peoples faces when my humble little sedan wiped the floor with their cars. If Nissan can do a 500 hp V6 (which is very, very good) so can BMW. I like the idea of a mildly tuned motor putting out 700 HP

footie · 09-18-2009, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penny31

Is the M division slowly falling apart? With the M division announcing that
the next gen m3 will be twin turbo already turns down everything for which M stands for. Also with the whole x6 m and x5 m being turbo'd I feel like we have reached the point where exclusivity of the "M" brand is come down. Another example I can think of that I read on the forum is in order to get MDM, you have the opt out for all those technological gadgets and such.

This just be my last M unless the M division does right and stops selling out.

Well Im sure this is on the board but I had to let it out and there's no better less place than m3post. So i wanted to see if you guys are going to buy the next gen M3 or going to start looking at other Car companies

Sounds very like a baby throwing it's toys out of the pram because mummy (BMW) is not giving them what they want (N/A engines).

Get real and grow up, it's a business that BMW are in and they make cars to make a profit which in turn allows for future developments. So what if the next M cars are to use turbo engines, everyone will have to follow this very same path so why not stick with the brand that you prefer. There is a lot more to the driving experience than just throttle response which isn't really that big of an issue if you have ever driven these modern turbo cars.

As for M Division producing big SUVs, so what if BMW have decided to develop these, only if in doing this that the other M cars are effect do you really have a problem.

Best wait and see what this new M cars bring to the table and then based on that you will be in a best position to either stay put or jump ship.

valeram · 09-18-2009, 09:35 AM

Time and people change and so do auto manufacturers and that includes BMW M Division. I am sure that they do a lot of marketing study plus cost and benefit analysis. New technology can be better or worse than it was before. Time can only judge if the decision was done properly.

If it is for me, I will still buy an M car if I can still afford a new one.

MJC///M3 · 09-18-2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valeram

Time and people change and so do auto manufacturers and that includes BMW M Division. I am sure that they do a lot of marketing study plus cost and benefit analysis. New technology can be better or worse than it was before. Time can only judge if the decision was done properly.

If it is for me, I will still buy an M car if I can still afford a new one.

+1

Nawaaz · 09-18-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valeram

Time and people change and so do auto manufacturers and that includes BMW M Division. I am sure that they do a lot of marketing study plus cost and benefit analysis. New technology can be better or worse than it was before. Time can only judge if the decision was done properly.

If it is for me, I will still buy an M car if I can still afford a new one.

Well said.

View Poll Results: Are you going to Stick with the M division or go another route
Stick with the M division	135	73.77%
Leave the M for another brand	48	26.23%
Voters: 183. You may not vote on this poll

09-17-2009, 10:15 PM	#24
hogwild Private First Class 10 Rep 138 Posts Drives: 2011 m3 coupe Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So.Cal. iTrader: (0)	Ive owned many sports cars and the Porsche sound was unmatchable! When I first heard the V8 in the M3 I thought I was home again to my roots and a sweet V8! I dont care really what BMW does in the future you can never match the sweet sound of a V8 to any other motor!! Hell, you can always go faster, but will it give you goosebumps when you press the gas? :happy anim: Last edited by hogwild; 09-17-2009 at 10:17 PM.. Reason: spelling error
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09-18-2009, 01:12 AM	#25
spyderco10 Colonel 63 Rep 2,427 Posts Drives: AW E92 M3 6MT Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Honolulu, HI iTrader: (0)	There was a time when people resisted things like air bags and anti lock brakes. __________________ “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” - John 3:16
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09-18-2009, 05:05 AM	#27
Eugene-TAIWAN Brigadier General 249 Rep 3,157 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Coupe Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taiwan iTrader: (4)	If I can in the future, I want a M car + Porsche GT3, GT3RS, or GT2 __________________ Past: Gintani stage3 M3, Cayman GTS present: Porsche 993RWB, 964RS America,996 cupcar, 964 turbo 3.6,Macan Turbo,997GT2,930 turbo,i3, MINI JCW
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09-18-2009, 06:22 AM	#29
mkoesel Moderator 7510 Rep 19,370 Posts Drives: No BMW for now Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canton, MI iTrader: (1)	I'm not going to answer the poll because I don't believe in brand loyalty in the first place (I buy the best car that fits my needs and budget) and besides I just got my E93 last year and the next M3 is years off. So its way too premature to make proclaimations about future purchases at this time. I will say this though: I don't particularly look forward to having to be convinced to by a product. The best products sell themselves in garnering critical acclaim from early adopters and industry reviewers. We'll see if the next M3 is able to do this as well as all the past ones have. I'm sure M will have another brilliant car cooked up. But the move to FI and, if it happens, a V6 could be the most controversial moves for the bread-and-butter M car yet. For me, if it is not a high revving powerplant then it will be a tough choice to go with the M3. On the other hand, unless someone else steps in with an 8000 RPM motor then there won't be anything comparable to the old M's choose from anyway. Audi is rumored to be continuing with the high revving 4.2L V8 for the RS5. I'm no AWD fan but that car is definitely going to get a test drive by me if they stick with that N/A V8. Edit: RS5, not S5. Last edited by mkoesel; 09-18-2009 at 07:19 AM..
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09-18-2009, 06:37 AM	#30
BMWI6 Major 96 Rep 1,337 Posts Drives: 335is Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Miami, Fl iTrader: (2)	I want the next gen M3 to be a twin turbo I6 not a V6 __________________ If everything seems under control, then you aren't going fast enough"
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09-18-2009, 07:21 AM	#33
J08M3 Major General 285 Rep 6,007 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE Join Date: May 2008 Location: NEW YORK iTrader: (8)	Selling out.... have they ever not been in it for the money?? BMW makes cars for one reason.... profit. The enthusiasts just followed. __________________
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09-18-2009, 08:08 AM	#36
skierman64 Brigadier General 125 Rep 3,071 Posts Drives: E92M3-E46M3-E46Wagon-E89Z4-E36 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Greater St Louis Metro area iTrader: (1) Garage List 1994 325is Race Car [0.00] 2011 BMW Z4 [0.00] 1998 M3 Coupe [0.00] 2008 M3 Coupe [0.00]	As long as the M3 remains a great car I could care less about what other cars get a M badge. It doesn't effect the car I'm interested in in the least. I didn't buy the car for the reputation, I bought it for the performance. __________________ Invest Wisely...The best mod for your money?? BMWCCA high performance driver's school. The mod that lasts a lifetime and improves the performance of any car you drive[/LEFT]
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09-18-2009, 08:42 AM	#38
Nawaaz Brigadier General 221 Rep 4,643 Posts Drives: . Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: . iTrader: (0)	+2
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09-18-2009, 08:43 AM	#39
SlammedR8 Major General 521 Rep 5,483 Posts Drives: 2019 X5 40i/2020 R8 V10 Spyder Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toronto iTrader: (2)	+3 __________________ Current: 2019 BMW X5 40i - Carbon Black/Tartufo Individual Leather 2020 Range Rover HSE - Black/Black 2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Spyder 6MT - Ascari Blue/Black
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09-18-2009, 09:35 AM	#42
valeram Major 37 Rep 1,413 Posts Drives: 992 TTS, 991.2 GT3 T, F80 M3 C Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dublin, OH iTrader: (0)	Time and people change and so do auto manufacturers and that includes BMW M Division. I am sure that they do a lot of marketing study plus cost and benefit analysis. New technology can be better or worse than it was before. Time can only judge if the decision was done properly. If it is for me, I will still buy an M car if I can still afford a new one.
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